The-15th

Many critics are so stereotyped. Echoes it's really a dance-punk record, but Pieces Of People We Love the bands get into funk and disco music.

Unfornately, my references are so little compared with other "critics", it's better don't change nothing.

Thanks for the message!

Their (She Wants Revenge's) first reviews I saw on the internet, when nobody heard of them, regarded them as a goth rock band. So I looked into it. Ever since then, I can't find a reason why they aren't goth rock. But Dark wave is what you're asking...

It's just the experience with the many shades of darkwave I'm convinced, though I wouldn't have called them that when they first started out. I've heard all the songs they've released and some they haven't, even heard how they perform live. They're just something that appeals to the fans of the first wave of goth rock bands, like those of the deathrock, darkwave and often ebm genres as well. Please get back to me.

(Skinnydrifter (talk) 19:43, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

You're right Pink Industry sounds nothing like She Wants Revenge. But Nine Inch Nails doesn't sound like Psychic TV. Darkwave is a vast genre that I've been exploring for well over many years before I discovered She Wants Revenge. You can't listen to one band and say that's darkwave, cause there are so many layers. During my time I have found atleast 9 types of darkwave.

I've never heard darkwave referred to as goth rock and new wave before. That's like saying cold wave is cold rock and new wave. So you might ask, How can Project Pitchfork, Girls Under Glass, VNV Nation and Rotersand be called darkwave at times? The most frequent usage in regards to the term is electronic goth music, which I usually agree with. A lot of She Wants Revenge is more electronic than a post-punk. Early Depeche Mode, Clan of Xymox, some London After Midnight, Wolfsheim or The Danse Society may lead you in the right direction. Then you could try the core sound of darkwave (the type that I think She Wants Revenge fit in with) with bands like Pink Turns Blue and Feeding Fingers.

There's always a particular mellow strings/synth sound section typical throughout this subgenre of music that sets it away from indie rock and post-punk genres. Covering Depeche Mode's "Stripped" must have been a bad move if they never wanted to be called darkwave, as that song is from their most considered "darkwave" album. Before, the song was covered by Rammstein which launched their popularity, whilst still an unknown band. This was also the reason why they were often called gothic metal rather than NDH or even industrial metal in their early years. Maybe this could change with She Wants Revenge when they grow and progress their style, but there's no denying their goth to darkwave influenced sound.

I find it's good they're doing their own thing, that's why I don't disagree that they are partly a post-punk revival, but that's only one piece of a bigger picture. Goths usually have a wide variety of musical inspirations and influences, that's where the confusion starts.

(Skinnydrifter (talk) 12:36, 14 January 2008 (UTC))

Franz Ferdinand (band)

Hi The-15th. I noticed you added a protection tag to the article Franz Ferdinand (band). Adding the protection tag does not protect the page - only an administrator can protect pages. If you want to request that this article is protected you should do so at the noticeboard for page protection requests. I have removed the tag since it is currently misleading. Thanks, Gwernol 15:36, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Nice to have a debate...

Malcolm Ross's comments are particularly pertinent. His band were inspired by the Mods that went before them, but were not Mods themselves. In a similar way, FF may have been inspired to some degree by bands such as Josef K, Orange Juice or Monochrome Set, but they are not Post Punk themselves. Post Punk is a term that in many ways is simply chronological. Orange Juice, The Specials and The Pop Group are all referred to as Post Punk, yet all they really have in common is the era in which they existed (ie post '76 and God Save The Queen).

As I mentioned earlier, my main concern is with the word 'revival'. To me 'revival' can be applied to a Rockabilly revival act such as the Stray Cats or a Mod Revival act such as The Lambrettas. Both attempted to recreate the sounds and image of a previous era verbatim. This is not the case with any of this current set of bands. It may possibly be argued in the case of a band like Interpol who have a very similar sound and aesthetic to Joy Division or The Chameleons, but not in the case of FF, The Arctic Monkeys - even the Strokes or Killers. As for a band like the Cribs - I can't see any Post Punk influence there at all. If anything, they seem to be coming from a background of British DIY and US indie influences. With FF, there are many distinct influences, of which post punk is only a small part: eg Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, The Kinks, Can, Neu, Kraftwerk, Roxy Music, Sparks, Pulp, Captain Beefheart, even Neutral Milk Hotel (listen to Two Headed Boy and the intro of Take Me Out). They definitely did not set out to 'revive' any movement and although they have mentioned being fans of Orange Juice or The Fire Engines, they have never mentioned the words "Post Punk" in any of hundreds of interviews. This term does seem to be something which has appeared within the last year and seems to reflect a trend amongst certain (mainly US, mainly amateur) critics, rather than any bands themselves.

As for Indie Rock, well that seems a more bona-fide genre than PPR. You're right, FF are of that genre because they are signed to Domino - an indie. Technically, this should not reflect the sound of a band, but a recognised genre has evolved since the '80s with bands like the Smiths, Wedding Present, Soup Dragons and Primal Scream, then over the years, encompassing everything from Oasis and The Libertines to Modest Mouse and Death Cab For Cutie. Indie is also more of a UK term. In the US, bands of this type are usually referred to as alternative. Both are generic terms that refer to bands that are generally outside the perceived mainstream, although even this rule seems perverse when bands such as REM, Nirvana or The Cure become mainstream with their sales, yet retain the indie/alternative tag.

Anyway, back to post punk. I concede that FF may have been influenced by a few post punk bands (amongst many other influences), but do you honestly believe that FF formed with the intention of reviving a fleeting music scene from 25 years earlier? They made many (often spurious) claims such as wanting to make girls dance or whatever, but the intention of reviving post punk was not one of them. Wardroad (talk) 02:36, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

The-15th

I would like to say that the user The-15th, keeps vanderlsing the page. If you go on to history and see his edits, undo them as they contain vanderlism —Preceding unsigned comment added by EdzMaldoom (talk • contribs) 15:12, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello. It would be more appropriate if your comments were occassionally a little more civil. It is not particularly good form to remove any edit you disagree with using the catch-all phrase "non-useful". Non-useful to whom? Why are they "non-useful". What do you define as "useful". To effectively debate you need to be more specific. If you expect to be treated with respect yourself, you need to treat others with that respect too. If you disagree with someone's perspective you can't ask for them to be banned from editing. If that was the case you may not last that long yourself. With best of regards and in the interests of healthy, informed debate, Wardroad (talk) 19:17, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:From The Cradle To The Grave.jpg

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Indie-electro

Just letting you know that you didn't properly create the (2nd nomination) page for Indie-electro; you have to create a new AfD page with (2nd nomination) at the end of the title if an older AfD already exists. I fixed it for you. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 20:38, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

• No big deal. The AfD directions aren't all that clear, especially for creating second, third, etc. nominations. Installing Twinkle makes it a lot easier. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 20:57, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Article deletion

I was surprised to see that there were no articles regarding the rocktronica music genre on Wikipedia. I traced a deletion request through logs and it came back to you. Your talk page would suggest that you have an interest in music, so I find it a little hard to understand how you would believe that the genre doesn't exist. Several bands have themselves described their music as rocktronica, such as The Crystal Method, and a Google search would indeed yield more than a couple of results, I'm sure. If this article was to be recreated, would you object? The Cake is a Lie ^{T / C} 00:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Live on a Hot August Night

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