User talk:This is Paul/Archive33

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1992 in British television (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

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 Done. This is Paul (talk) 11:45, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Timeline of Digital Audio Broadcasting in the UK

I have just created a Timeline of Digital Audio Broadcasting in the UK. Any additions/new information would be much appreciated. Rillington (talk) 13:37, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Great work, I'll see what I can add. This is Paul (talk) 16:42, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

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Thanks re: edit

Hello This is Paul, just wanted to say thanks for the heads up/ revert on Suzannah Lipscomb; I had thought the information was valid and of interest (not realising it had been added- and removed- a long while back), but having just taken a look through the history/ talk page, particularly with regard the involvement of the subject's mother and the subject's apparent views of what is appropriate for inclusion on Wikipedia, I fully agree that your edit was the best course of action! Thanks again.

No problem. It was a few years ago when it all happened now, and is quite an unusual case. Most of the time adding that information to an article would be fine, especially with a reliable source like the one you found. At one time she didn't want her birth date included, but I see that appears not to be an issue now. This is Paul (talk) 16:37, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Identify network

The network Identified for Caroline in the City is likely Channel 4. --2600:1:C416:76E3:7DD6:7DD5:65C9:1A6B (talk) 15:50, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure what this is in response to but you're right; Caroline in the City did appear on Channel 4. This is Paul (talk) 16:02, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

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Mad About You

What UK broadcaster is showing Mad About You. I think either BBC, ITV, Channel 4 or Sky One. --2600:1:C47D:A067:A0F0:1D8B:3F86:8478 (talk) 14:19, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

It's not a series I'm familiar with so I don't know. Looking at our article on the series my guess would be either Channel 4 or Sky One, both of which have aired a lot of US content over the years. You might have better luck asking this question at WP:REFDESK where you're more likely to find someone who knows the answer. Good luck. This is Paul (talk) 14:56, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Ed

On the 2001 in British television page, sorry Stuckeybowl (or Ed) could be wrong broadcaster. It is Channel Four, not Sky One. At least Dark Angel belongs on Sky One. --2600:1:C414:B8AA:7965:89AF:BC1A:14A0 (talk) 01:07, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

I didn't add this to the article and again I'm not familiar with the series, so once again I can't really help. This is Paul (talk) 20:02, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Stark Raving Mad on Channel 4?

On the 2000 in British television#Channel 4 page...

Hmm? Stark Raving Mad in it? --2600:1:C47A:E33C:1185:7D6:BA06:9FC1 (talk) 17:30, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Chris Evans on Sky One

I've added details of the Sky One simulcast of Chris Evans's Virgin breakfast show to the breakfast television timeline as it was effectively a breakfast television programme. The start date is well documented, but finding the final date it was simulcast is proving to be a bit more difficult. I know Sky signed a three year deal to sponsor the show, but have a feeling the simulcast had stopped airing before Evans left Virgin in 2001. This is Paul (talk) 18:42, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

It sure was and it's good that it has been added. From memory, I think it ended sometime in 1999.

Also, there is no readily available information regarding Channel 5's breakfast news programme. For the first few years Channel 5 broadcast a news programme for part of the breakfast period although this later changed to a news channel simulcast before being dropped. I want to add this information to the breakfast timeline. Any help would be appreciated. Rillington (talk) 16:32, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I think from memory 5 News Early was fronted by Scott Chisholm and Becky Anderson with an occasional third newsreader when one of them was absent. I know it went on air when the channel started, but don't know if it continued till they began simulcasting Sky News Sunrise in 2002.

I think you're right about the Chris Evans Sky One thing. I seem to remember it being axed sometime in 1999, although according to this article it was still going in July of that year. I have a feeling it may have disappeared after 12 months, but with much less fanfare than greeted its arrival. This is Paul (talk) 19:15, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

ITV company timelines

What are your thoughts regarding creating timelines for the ITV companies? and if you think it's a good idea, should we just do the major companies or should we look to create a timeline for every ITV company? Rillington (talk) 19:03, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Do you mean like LWT and Central? That could be interesting as there were lots of variations between regions during the past. I think the major ones would be easy to do. There probably wouldn't be as much for something like STV or Grampian though. This is Paul (talk) 19:56, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes. I think it would be easy to do for the large companies but as you say less easy for the smaller companies. However I think there is enough material for all of the companies as the licensee never changed hands in the smaller regions. For the companies that lost their ITV licence, their timeline could include their activities after they lost their franchise. The only issue for me is whether ATV and Central would be one timeline or whether they should have separate timelines. Rillington (talk) 23:06, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

ATV and Central were basically the same company but with a name change forced on them by the IBA to give it a more regional feel. But I guess having something like Timeline of ATV/Central Television could be a bit confusing. We could have an article for Timeline of Central Television that includes details of ATV's Midlands operation. There's probably also scope for Timeline of Associated Television that could include their activity in other regions. This is Paul (talk) 23:34, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

It's a difficult one isn't it. If we were to split them then a timeline for Associated Television should include their activity in all of the regions in which they held a franchise. Rillington (talk) 00:04, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

I've made a bit of a start by adding some stuff about LWT and TVS to the years articles. I think it may be easier to create the timelines once the everything is in bitesize format. Also I've created a Timeline of the BBC Television Service this afternoon covering the pre-BBC One days. There was more stuff than I thought there would be so it's ended up being quite detailed. This is Paul (talk) 16:44, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Well done re the Timeline of the BBC Television Service. It's a really good addition to the BBC timelines

I'd noticed that you'd added some additional information regarding individual ITV companies to the TV Years articles and having the information already added to Wikipedia makes it so much easier to create the timelines. I've also created a category for ITV timelines. Rillington (talk) 17:43, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Only just realised with your creation of the ITV category that we have a Coronation Street timeline. This is Paul (talk) 18:04, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Likewise. I wanted the category to have more than one initial entry and it occurred to me that there might be a Coronation Street timeline, and there was! Emmerdale sort-of has a timeline but it is a chronological list of major storylines, contained within the main article. Rillington (talk) 19:18, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

There's not one for EastEnders either, although the main article does include a summary of major storylines. It may be worth creating one along with an Emmerdale timeline at some point. As I don't watch either series I couldn't make it as in-depth as the Corrie one, and I'd probably make it more about the programmes themselves rather than the storylines. For example, with EastEnders I'd focus on things such as episode milestones, changes of producer, set redesigns, plotlines and episodes that are notable outside the EE universe (such as the live episodes that were made, and the Who Shot Phil? cliffhanger), and the introduction and departure of major characters like Den Watts. There's also scope for a Doctor Who timeline, though that would possibly require the cooperation of the Doctor Who Project. This is Paul (talk) 15:02, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

The Coronation Street timeline is very much based on the storylines although there are one or two non-storyline events included such as the first colour broadcast and episode milestones, but no mention of changes to scheduling and similar although this is arguably better covered in a separate timeline along the lines as you suggest, rather than a mere chronology of major storylines as is the case with the Emmerdale storyline chronology. There'd certainly be plenty to go at in this regard for Doctor Who although, as you say, it should be done in co-operation with the Doctor Who Project. Rillington (talk) 17:29, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Cut-off points

When do you think the cut-off should be for the timelines or should there not be a cut-off point? My initial thought in favour of a cut-off would be when the regional identities and regional continuity was axed in 2002. Rillington (talk) 17:29, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

That seems like a good place for the ones in England and Wales to end. One or two continued to have regional identities after 2002, like UTV and STV so there's probably still information to include after that date for them. This is Paul (talk) 18:14, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

I've now compiled the first ITV company timeline, for Yorkshire Television - Timeline of Yorkshire Television. I decided to name the timeline Yorkshire Television rather than ITV Yorkshire. I decided to make the ending of regional non-news programmes in 2009 the cut-off point. I've also not included individual programmes in the timeline, apart from a couple of references to Emmerdale Farm, so as to keep the same format of the other television timelines we have put together.

Regarding STV and UTV, I feel those timelines can come right up to date. Rillington (talk) 13:53, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Great start. This looks fantastic. I agree only the most notable programmes should be mentioned as some of the companies made hundreds of different things and it would exhaust the list to include too much. This is Paul (talk) 23:22, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

As I've created the timelines a natural cut-off point has emerged - the 2013 reintroduction of more localised regional news coverage. Rillington (talk) 07:29, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

ATV and Central

What are your thoughts about ATV and Central? Do you think they should be separate timelines or would it be satisfactory to cover this as a single Midlands timeline, and if so, what do you think its title should be? Rillington (talk) 05:14, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

I think ATV and Central were basically the same company, but they had to change their name to reflect a more local service. There's probably enough material to do one for both, especially as ATV held more than one franchise at one time. Alternatively we could go for something like Timeline of ITV in the Midlands. This is Paul (talk) 12:48, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

That's the jist of it which is why it isn't as easy as it is with the other areas/franchises which had different licensees at various points. There's definately enough material for separate timelines so maybe it is best, certainly initially, to keep the separate and only consider merging the two timelines if keeping them separate really does not feel right. Rillington (talk) 15:59, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

I guess it's a bit like the BBC One Timeline and BBC Television Service Timeline. They deal with what is effectively the same channel and could have been created as one time line, but that might have led to confusion.

Agreed. Therefore, it's probably best to keep them separate and I've now created a Timeline of Central Independent Television. Rillington (talk) 10:50, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Great work again. I agree it's probably better to keep them separate. I'll see if I can add anything to it. This is Paul (talk) 20:05, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

A timeline of breakfast television

I've been thinking about a timeline of breakfast television in the UK as we don't currently have one and there'd be quite a lot of stuff that could go into it. It may be you've already thought of covering some of this in a TV-am/GMTV timeline though so let me know if you have. It could even be worth including a timeline for the ITV breakfast franchise in the ITV companies timelines as TV-am and GMTV were ITV companies. I'd always been aware that when launched, TV-am was regarded as a separate television franchise/company but until recently hadn't realised it was effectively another television channel and quite a lot of technical stuff had to occur when it handed over to the various ITV companies each day. If you're not planning a TV-am, et al, timeline and I get a chance I might start work on something a bit later, particularly if, as is being promised by the weather forecasters, we do get deluged with snow. This is Paul (talk) 09:36, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

A timeline of breakfast television in the UK is an excellent idea and such a timeline should include all channels. I think there is also a good justification for a separate timeline for TV-am, but not GMTV, as that timeline would include information which if included in the main UK breakfast timeline could cause that timeline to become overly cluttered. Rillington (talk) 04:13, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Fantastic, I'll make a start on it. This is Paul (talk) 21:46, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

I've now created Timeline of breakfast television in the United Kingdom. IT mostly focuses on the launches and changes of the various breakfast TV services, and some of the comings and goings of the presenters. I've just found {{UK Breakfast TV}} and see there's a couple of other things to add, but I'll probably do that tomorrow now as it's getting late. If there's anything you feel shouldn't be in there please feel free to take it out. This is Paul (talk) 00:13, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

That's a really good start - well done, and I shall make a few additions. I've also compiled a Timeline of TV-am which is now online as there are some events which are too company-specific for inclusion in the Timeline of breakfast television in the United Kingdom. I've also put together a Timeline of Granada Television. Rillington (talk) 07:27, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes I spotted the Granada timeline last night but forgot to mention it. Great work on that, and the TV-am one as well. You found a lot of stuff that I'd missed. This is Paul (talk) 16:26, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

More ITV timelines created

I've now created timelines for almost all of the English regions, apart from London. Any additions/corrections would be appreciated. Rillington (talk) 07:29, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Great work. London is where it gets complicated. :) This is Paul (talk) 17:17, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Very true, as is Wales and West. My thought re Wales is to do an all-in-one timeline, probably titled Timeline of ITV Wales or Timeline of ITV in Wales as the pre-HTV companies should be included but there isn't sufficient justification for them to have their own timelines. What do you think? Rillington (talk) 16:32, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

And I've now created the timeline for Wales and named it Timeline of ITV in Wales. Rillington (talk) 12:34, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Good work on that. This is Paul (talk) 18:04, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Westward Television Timeline

User:CASSIOPEIA has relegated my timeline for Westward Television to draft status. The original objection was fair enough as the article didn't contain any references, but I improved the article and added a number of references and this was acknowledged but User:CASSIOPEIA has now said that the timeline cannot be a standalone article and should be included as part of the Westward Television article. I'm fearful that User:CASSIOPEIA might object to other timelines on similar grounds. Any support would be appreciated as it would be a shame if Westward was the only ITV company without its own timeline. Rillington (talk) 16:32, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I don't know what the policy is when someone moves an article you've created to the draftspace, whether you can move it back after improvement or if they have to do it. It seems reasonably ok to me and well referenced, but one way around it could be to merge some of the smaller company timelines like Westward into regional timelines. That could work well with the south west region where the companies don't have a lot of information. You could call it Timeline of the ITV South West region or something like that. Hope this helps. This is Paul (talk) 19:02, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

That is exactly what I have done re ITV in Wales and also ITV West so that TWW and WWN are included. Rillington (talk) 07:51, 12 February 2019 (UTC)Rillington (talk)

As you can see from the user's talk page this seems to be a personal objection to this and possibly all timelines and if I was to reinstate it I think User:CASSIOPEIA would immediately put it up for speedy deletion. If you could back me up on User:CASSIOPEIA's talk page I would be most grateful. Rillington (talk) 09:56, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi Rillington Pls see List of timelines and Warner Bros. and Apple Inc. don have timeline articles but info is incorporate in the existing articles in the history section instead of forking them out. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 23:20, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm glad that you have posted this on Paul's talkpage. Paul and I have created 48 UK broadcasting timelines in recent months and the other 47 have been reviewed and accepted by the Wikipedia community. Therefore it is important for Paul to know that you seem to hold the view that timelines do not have a place on Wikipedia, and you have already put this view into practice by effectively removing my Westward timeline from Wikipedia rather than adding the lack of references note to top of the timeline. Please tell Paul and myself why you have an objection to timelines. Rillington (talk) 07:51, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

ok I've replied on CASSIOPEIA's talk page. From reading what has been said there and here, I'd say go for a merger of the three company's timelines as that should create a more substantial article. It might also be worth thinking about broadening the article's remit. For instance, any productions that were made, either for local or national transmission. The south west region didn't produce a lot of programming for the ITV network but there was some. This is Paul (talk) 18:11, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments on CASSIOPEIA's talk page. I don't understand what a 'fork' is in this context.

As you saw from both by Wales and West England timelines, I merged TWW and HTV into one timeline because there isn’t enough information to justify a TWW timeline as a standalone article. Therefore, I felt that this was the compromise even though ideally I’d have wanted HTV to have had its own timeline. I think it would be better to rename the West of England timeline as Timeline of HTV West given that most of the pre-1968 information isn’t relevant to the West of England timetable, and the revised title would keep things more in line with the other timelines which are company timelines rather than ITV region timelines.

Regarding adding programming to the timelines, my concern is that doing so could clutter the timelines. I have covered the development of the news coverage such as launching of new news programmes, opt-outs and other forms of expansion and contraction of regional news coverage. I’ve also made very occasional mention of the launch of major long running non-regional news programmes - eg Coronation Street and World in Action on Granada’s timeline and Emmerdale and Countdown on the Yorkshire TV timeline, and I will be mentioning The Bill on the Thames timeline, which should be online by early next week. I also included them because they were mentioned on the ITV timeline to maintain consistency between subject matter on the main ITV timeline and the regional company timelines. Therefore I wouldn't be sure what programming to add and what not to add. Rillington (talk) 12:10, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

No problem, my thoughts about broadening the article and merging some of them were just a way of saving the Westward timeline and the others from any more questions about their notability, and any potential AFD nomination. I'm aware that all three of those relating to South West England are fairly short (probably the shortest of the ITV timelines created) and you mentioned that you'd included TWW in the ITV Wales timeline. But WP:LISTN suggests there shouldn't be a problem with any of them so I wouldn't think there's any need to broaden or merge anything. I probably would have added more stuff, but like you say, what programmes to include is a difficult one to call, and I probably went way over the top with the BBC One and BBC Two stuff I added.

There is always new information being discovered so each timeline is likely to be expanded, and I've already added additional events to most of the ITV timelines. Rillington (talk) 16:12, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

I've never had an article moved to the draft space, and don't think I've ever created anything there for peer review, so don't know what happens in this situation. Maybe you can move it back to the main space with Cassiopeia's agreement, which they seem to have given. But I would support moving it back there anyway. Also if you want to rename the ITV West timeline then go for it. This is Paul (talk) 14:57, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

It is clear that User:CASSIOPEIA has an ideological view on this issue and I don't have the authority to move the article back to the main encyclopaedia. Rillington (talk) 14:26, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm hoping to take this to dispute resolution because I don't know what else to do. This is Paul (talk) 14:32, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

I think that is a very sensible thing to do at this point given how things are at the moment. Thank you for your comment and input into the discussion. Rillington (talk) 15:46, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to do an article rename, plus I may not have the authority to rename an article that I have created. Therefore, could you please rename my Timeline of ITV in West England to Timeline of HTV West. Thank you. Rillington (talk) 16:12, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

ok I'll do it, but it's quite easy to do this yourself by clicking on move at the top of the page and renaming it. As far as I'm aware anyone can rename an article as long as the planned new name isn't already a blue link (i.e., in use as a redirect or as the name for another article). If it is a blue link then it becomes a bit more complicated. Also as far as I'm aware there's nothing to stop someone who created an article from renaming it as I've done that myself a few times. This is Paul (talk) 16:21, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. Rillington (talk)

Update

I have now created all of the ITV timelines - The Timeline of Thames Television was the final one to be added, and I found a way to include Associated-Rediffusion. Rillington (talk) 19:39, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Just Shoot Me!

There are two broadcasters on Just Shoot Me!. One on Sky One, the other on Channel 4. --2600:1:D43E:225E:AC42:D660:D69B:662E (talk) 17:10, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

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Open University programming

@Rillington: I've just added a couple of new entries to the Timeline of breakfast television in the United Kingdom article, as I realised one of the things I'd overlooked to mention is the Open University programming that often appeared at that time of day on BBC One and BBC Two. As far as I can gather the first early morning OU broadcasts on BBC Two began in 1974, with BBC One following in 1976. When they ended is a bit more difficult to pin down, but would be doable with some more time. I thought the OU programming became part of BBC Learning Zone in 1992, but BBC Genome is still listing OU programmes for both BBC One and BBC Two for that year, so perhaps that happened later on. The final OU broadcast was on 16 December 2006 for BBC Two. I'm tempted to think BBC One would have stopped when it began simulcasting with BBC News 24 but would need to check that out. This is Paul (talk) 23:23, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi Paul. The breakfast Open University transmissions are part of the history of breakfast television in the UK and it's absolutely correct to mention these broadcasts on the breakfast television timeline.

The last time BBC1 broadcast Open University programming was at the end of the 1992 season (27 September) and the stand-alone weekday breakfast transmissions on BBC2 ended three days before the launch of the BBC Learning Zone on 9 October 1995. Rillington (talk) 11:28, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

I've now incorporated this information into the timeline and this meant that I was able to mention the Children's BBC Breakfast Show, which was aired on weekdays on BBC2 from the mid 1990s. Rillington (talk)

I'd forgotten about the Children's BBC Breakfast Show, but remember it being on. Thanks for adding the information. This is Paul (talk) 17:15, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Quick links

Links to stories I need to add to television and radio articles when I have more time. They're currently on the BBC News front page, but I'm noting them here so I can find them again once the page is updated and they disappear. This is Paul (talk) 10:04, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

• "Simon Mayo makes debut on new classical station". BBC News. BBC. 4 March 2019. Retrieved 5 March 2019.
• "Call the Midwife gets two more series". BBC News. BBC. 4 March 2019. Retrieved 5 March 2019.
• "Jonathan Dimbleby to step down from Any Questions?". BBC News. BBC. 4 March 2019. Retrieved 5 March 2019.

RTE timelines

There is no timeline of RTE and given that you created the list of years in Irish television series, I was wondering what your thoughts are about creating an RTE timeline. Rillington (talk) 16:48, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes an RTE timeline sounds like a great idea. I haven't done anything with the Irish television articles for a couple of years so don't know if anyone else has kept them up to date. My last large contribution to them was in 2015 so there's probably some stuff to add. This is Paul (talk) 17:03, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

The 2016 onwards pages list ongoing programmes but do not mention any events. I have also made some additions to the Scottish TV articles over the past year or so when I found something new to add. Rillington (talk) 19:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for expanding them. I must go back to the Irish TV articles and look at updating them. I used to have Sky with Irish TV a few years back so was more in the know about the topic than I am now. One of the most significant television events I'm aware of happening there since 2016 is Virgin's purchase of TV3, and the disappearance of UTV Ireland which seemed to suffer from poor ratings, but there are sure to be others worth recording. There's probably also scope for a timeline of TV3/Virgin so I might have a go at that. This is Paul (talk) 15:06, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Timeline of TV in Scotland

I've also now added a timeline of television in Scotland. Rillington (talk) 20:39, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Great work on that. I did wonder if it was worth creating one so I'm glad you did it. This is Paul (talk) 14:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. I've added a few more events and any other similar additions would be most welcome. I've also added those events to the individual year lists. Rillington (talk) 18:33, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

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Creating redirects

Hi. When you create redirects, can you please add and source a mention of it at the target article if there is not one already? Last month you created When I'm Alone: The Piano Retrospective as a redirect to Lissie, but there is no mention of the album at her article. Not being mentioned at the target is a frequent reason for deletion, especially at RfD, and there are editors who go around and find these and nominate them for deletion, so it's probably actually in your best interest to make sure they are at least mentioned at the target. Thanks. Ss112 01:34, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

I'm pretty certain it was included in the article at the time I created the redirect, but in case not I'll add it to her discography along with a reference. The album is released tomorrow, I believe, and here's a review from the Irish Times. This is Paul (talk) 22:08, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Discussion on Layla Moran talk page

There is a rather spirited discussion currently ongoing at Talk:Layla Moran#Domestic Violence. Seeing as you are an experienced editor that recently edited the page, I would appreciate if you could chime in with your view, in the interests of finding a consensus one way or the other. Domeditrix (talk) 09:51, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Thanks, I can't believe I've been here for eleven years. This is Paul (talk) 18:49, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

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