Thomas Norren

Contact me

Please feel free to leave a message here if you wish to contact me. Thomas Norren (talk) 03:10, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Ticking "this is a minor edit"

Just to let you know to not tick the minor edit box unless your change meets these criteria Help:Minor edit. If there is any way that your edit changes the information content or meaning of the article, it's not minor. Even adding a link to another article, e.g. replacing "Apple" with Apple might change the meaning as the intention was to refer to the computer company Apple Inc. If in any doubt, don't tick it. Kerry (talk) 22:44, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

What about if I link the word to a page that is its intended meaning? Thomas Norren (talk) 01:58, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Often people's fingers slip on the dropdown lists (depending on what interface you use) etc and meant to link to a particular article but accidentally linked to another. But if you are 100% sure, ok, but here's the "social side" of the problem. Because most people don't check minor edits, vandals often mark their edits are minor. So if someone is making genuine mistakes (and we all do from time to time) but marking them as minor out of habit, then people may start to wonder if this person really has good intentions or not. But it's up to you. I merely offer my advice based on 17 years of experience on-wiki. Kerry (talk) 05:30, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok thank you Thomas Norren (talk) 05:33, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Violons Barbares moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Violons Barbares, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 12:28, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

How long can an inactive article stay in draft space before being auto-deleted? Thomas Norren (talk) 13:39, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Interlanguage links

Hello, can I interest you in learning how to create inter-language links yourself, to link the new articles on Maori Wikipedia to corresponding articles elsewhere? Then you won't need to post individual requests on the talk page of every such article here. See Help:Interlanguage links. Let me know if you have any questions. Largoplazo (talk) 15:56, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Aw thank you but, I already know how to do it and I do it for non protected pages. But I don't have the permission to do that for protected pages, so for those I ask others to do it in talk pages as you have noticed. Thomas Norren (talk) 16:21, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Hmm. I was reacting to your request at Talk:Réunion. I'd previously added the interlanguage link for Occitan language as you'd requested on that article's talk page. Neither Occitan language nor Réunion is protected. Hence, I deduced that you didn't know how to create such links. In addition, you're an ext Largoplazo (talk) 16:33, 23 September 2022 (UTC) Never mind, I just realized it isn't the protection of the pages in question, but protection in Wikidata. I will review further. Largoplazo (talk) 16:35, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Ah yeah I understand the confusion. Sorry I have to make all that work for you. Thomas Norren (talk) 16:38, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Not a problem. Before I continue, let me digress: I see you removed your request and my response from Talk:Occitan language. Please don't do that. Ordinarily you can remove your own contribution to a talk page before anyone else has responded, but once conversation has occurred it should remain recorded, unless there's something overall wrong with it that causes it to be out of place.

I see that I am an "implicit member" of the Autoconfirmed users group on Wikidata, while you are not. The criteria for automatic inclusion in that group are described at Wikidata:Wikidata:Autoconfirmed users. Also, in theory, you can request that access level, following the procedure at Wikidata:Wikidata:Requests for permissions. Largoplazo (talk) 16:48, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Ah the problem is that on wikidata I have just 44 edits instead of 50, I'll translate and link 6 non protected pages then hopefully the issue will be resolved. About the not removing sections from talk pages once someone has replied, if someone links a page but doesn't reply to the section on talk can I delete it then? I just don't want people to see it, then go to link it, then see that it's already done, wasting their time. Thomas Norren (talk) 07:57, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

In my view, the only reason to remove something you wrote from a talk page is if you've decided on second thought you shouldn't have written it to begin with, either because you realize you'd written it provocatively or aggressively or unfairly, or because something came to your attention that made you realize what you'd written was moot or off-point. Otherwise, you if you see someone has taken care of your request without having stated so in response to you, you can add "I see this has been done". That way it still leaves a record of the connection between your request and the action taken in response to it. Largoplazo (talk) 20:28, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Okay sure thing, I don't need to request interlinks to be added anymore anyways as I now am autoconfirmed. Thomas Norren (talk) 20:48, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

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Concern regarding Draft:Violons Barbares

Hello, Thomas Norren. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Violons Barbares, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 13:01, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Violons Barbares

Hello, Thomas Norren. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, "Violons Barbares".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code.

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! Hey man im josh (talk) 13:38, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

About Māori Wikipedia

What is the standard of spelling of loanwords from other languages in Maori? It is terrible for spelling like 'Kaliningrad' appear in Maori Wikipedia (in this example, 'Kaliningrad' is not even the spelling in the original language - the original text is Калининград. A possible better translation is 'Kalininikirari' for this 'ng' are pronounced separately, not together, and I heard that in Maori language 'r' is used to transcript 'd' from other languages). If there is no such standard for certain important languages, you can consider to contact Māori Language Commission (if possible). John Smith Ri (talk) 11:47, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

There's more like a tendency than a standard when it comes to Māori transliteration. Māori is one of the most phonologically simple languages in the world which means that there's not a great deal many sounds in Māori to approximate to, meaning that transliterations normally appear quite different to the original words. For example unlike in most Polynesian languages Māori doesn't have the sound "l", so Kalininikirari is not a possible transliteration. It seems d is most often but not always transliterated as "r" (https://www.sooty.nz/Pakehamaori.html) but d is most phonologically similar to "t" so perhaps should be more frequently transliterated as "t". Māori transliteration has a long and cultured history going back to the start of the New Zealand colonial period where most of our transliterations come from. In that period transliterations formed naturally and without a standard perhaps from the early Māoris' inability to pronounce English words. To introduce a standard would be to dispose of this long literary tradition and so I don't think it should be done. However there is a general rule of thumb that should still be followed. It goes as such:

English - Māori

B -> P

L -> R

D -> R, T

S -> H

V -> W

G -> mainly K, H but could be T

J -> H

F -> WH

Also Māori is usually consonant vowel but can have multiple vowels together or start with a vowel but can never end with a constant. Which I'm sure you already know, I just want to cover it wholly here. Thomas Norren (talk) 14:04, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Sorry to misused the letter 'l' (I mean to use 'r'). And I think mi:Wikipedia:Transliteration mentioned below should be created. A transcription standard for English might be given the first priority, and Chinese, French, Spanish, Russian, Arabic (the five above are working languages of UN besides English), major indigenous languages in Oceania, etc. the second. John Smith Ri (talk) 08:29, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

I already worked on the transliteration of Hawaiian into Māori:

Hawaiian - Māori

K - T (note that the letter K does exist in Māori but a Hawaiian K becomes a Māori T in cognates such as tāne / kāne and tangata / kanaka)

L - R

‘ - K

W - W (the Hawaiian w is pronounced as a v in Hawaiian but as a w in Māori)

And I had an idea to transliterate the common Russian city ending "-sk" as "-iki" but maybe there's a better way to do it than that.

Otherwise for Russian:

Russian - Māori

Аа - A

Бб - P

Вв - W

Гг - H (normally G would be mainly K but there's already a tradition among East Slavic languages to make G into H)

Дд - R

Ее - e

Ёё - o

Жж - H (zh becomes z then z becomes s then s becomes h)

Зз - H (z becomes s then s becomes h)

Ии - I (i not L)

Йй - I (i not L)

Кк - K

Лл - R

Мм - M

Нн - N

Оо - O

Пп - P

Рр - R

Сс - H

Тт - T

Уу - U

Фф - Wh

Хх - H

Цц - T

Чч - K

Шш - H

Щщ - H

Ъъ, Ьь - ignore these

Ыы - I (i not L)

Ээ - E

Юю - U

Яя - A

Other Cyrillic letters:

Ґ ґ - K

І і - I (i not L)

Ї ї - I (i not L)

Үү - U

But it's not too strict you know just try to make it fit the native pronunciation best you can.

French would be the same as English except for:

French - Māori

Π- O

Æ - A

ç - H

c - K (when said as k then K, when said as s then H)

And the accents you could ignore for example french é can be Māori e. Māori e is much closer to french é as how we normally approximate it in English pronunciation as "ay".

I don't think there's any special cases for Spanish except for Spanish J can be H. And Chinese and Arabic I have no idea about as I don't speak those languages. Thomas Norren (talk) 16:31, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

I would prefer if conversations like this occur on the Māori Wikipedia itself, but instead perhaps you could create a page such as mi:Wikipedia:Transliteration and put forward these guidelines for how to transliterate from words with sounds not included in the language. We can then point editors to that page whenever we move a page to a more correct title.-gadfium 19:26, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Yep that's a good idea. You could create such a page if you wish. Thomas Norren (talk) 00:57, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Request for applications for position of Wikipedian-at-Large, Aotearoa New Zealand

Kia ora! The Wikimedia Aotearoa New Zealand User Group invites you to read about the call for applications for a Wikipedian-at-Large for Aotearoa New Zealand in 2024. Group members are happy to explain the process and discuss ideas with interested editors.

Sent by Zippybonzo on behalf of MurielMary using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) at 06:37, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate the invite but you claim to represent New Zealand Wikipedians but yet your group isn't politically neutral, and don't get me wrong you have every right to give your group a political ideology, I just feel like that will push away New Zealand Wikipedians who do not agree with your groups political stance and so your group can only really claim to represent left-leaning New Zealand Wikipedians. Prehaps if there was a politically neutral group for New Zealand Wikipedians then it could sport that claim but I don't think that there's a large enough amount of New Zealand Wikipedians for another group to be created. So at the moment I will decline as I'd rather be part of a politically neutral group but in the future I may change my mind.

- cordially Thomas Norren (talk) 23:44, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Morgan Webb

She was not born in Canada and is not Canadian, and has stated so herself many times. https://web.archive.org/web/20221219110442/https://twitter.com/MorganWebb/status/7721041859. It originated as a bit on X-Play, and because someone put it in IMDB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_IMDb - not reliable) it created a feedback loop of misinformation. Jonathon A H (talk) 06:23, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Ah sorry I was just copying it from IMDb, where was she born then? Thomas Norren (talk) 06:37, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Invitation to an in-person meetup in Mohua / Golden Bay

Golden Bay Air are holding some seats for us until 21 November

Thinking about your summer break? Think about joining other Wikipedians and Wikimedians in Golden Bay / Mohua! Details are on the meetup page. There's heaps of interesting stuff to work on e.g. the oldest extant waka or New Zealand's oldest ongoing legal case. Or you may spend your time taking photos and then upload them.

Golden Bay is hard to get to and the airline flying into Tākaka uses small planes, so we are holding some seats from and to Wellington and we are offering attendees a $200 travel subsidy to help with costs.

Be in touch with Schwede66 if this event interests you and you'd like to discuss logistics. Schwede66 09:14, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

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