User talk:Tra/Archive/6

Secret Story

Thanks for that! godgoddingham ³³³ 21:29, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Just wanted to say thank you for your help! Beutelmd 22:37, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

SS logo rationale

Thanks for that; didn't really know what to do ;) godgoddingham ³³³ 22:30, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

thanks

Thank you for promt action. --Carl 19:08, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Removal of SD Tag

Hiya Tra. You removed this sd tag [1] at James Picken on the basis that several other editors had ammended the article. That's fair enough of course, but my understanding was that you could db-author as long as the changes were not substantial. My only interest is that I advised the editor to do it this way as he tried to blank it instead. I appreciate substantial is open to interpretation, but looking at the edit history the edits other than those by the original author were all minor (spelling, cats ect etc) I'm not fussed on the deletion or not (If as the author maintains the article is factually wrong I will prod it) but just wanted a clarification on your view - should I have proded rather than advised the editor to use the sd tag ? Pedro |  Chat  15:35, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree that most of the edits were fairly minor, although there was one edit where an infobox was added, and the article has been around for several months and has received input from various users. I felt it was best to err on the side of not deleting in borderline cases like these. If there are other reasons that the article should be deleted, feel free to prod it as you have suggested. Tra (Talk) 16:12, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

No probs. Google returns nothing so I've proded it. Thanks for your help. Pedro |  Chat  20:16, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi!

Can you please undelete User:SLSB/UBX? I did not request deletion of that but I did on two userboxes that were on that page so it was deleted accidentally. Thanks! SLSB talk • contrib 16:04, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

PS: Deletion log found here. SLSB talk • contrib 16:06, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Done. Sorry about that mistake. Tra (Talk) 16:14, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much SLSB talk • contrib 16:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

• For your information Tra, I've re-deleted the page mentioned above; that user was a sockpuppet of the banned user Bugman94 and I've just being clearing out the sock's userspace. Acalamari 22:20, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Ariel's Angel of the Day Award

		Ariel's Angel of the Day
		For finding the little-known template to do exactly what I wanted, and applying it to my essay, thank you so much!Ariel♥Gold

^Ariel♥Gold 20:32, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome, it was no problem. Tra (Talk) 22:05, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

RE: PoV page

Ok I changed the wording so it doesn't influence the decision process. I didn't know that I couldn't do that I must have over read that part or forgot. Thanks for letting me know. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 18:44, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Big Brother 2007 (UK)

Hi, I re-added this as it was discussed a while ago and democratically decided to be introduced. Any reason for removing it? RaseaC 18:08, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I presume you're referring to having the references in a scrolling box. I think the problem is that there are issues when printing pages using this, which was why a template using this function was deleted. Can you link me to the discussion you're referring to, please? Tra (Talk) 18:14, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Sure, the discussion is here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Big_Brother_2007_%28UK%29/Archive_3#Sources (titled 'sources') I don't see why printing comes into it, surely the information in the ref section is of little use when printed? RaseaC 23:10, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that link. The problem is that in subsequent discussions, e.g. Talk:Big_Brother_2007_(UK)#Scroll-bar references the consensus has changed so that now, the scroll box should not be used. In response to your other point, it is useful to have the references on the printed document so that a person reading it on paper is able to verify that the information in the article is correct. Tra (Talk) 19:00, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

mfd

thanks for your (speedy) help! it is very frustrating for this to come up the day after I move and have no computer access... mad props. ~ JohnnyMrNinja 23:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

RAA bot

Hi Tra. Sorry, I thought that the bot needed the colon to work properly (I must be thinking of RFPP, or some other similar place). Sebi _[talk] 23:31, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

E-Mail

Hi Toby, please check your E-Mail address (quite important), 24th September 2007.

Matt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.73.221.33 (talk) 18:03, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Got it. Tra (Talk) 16:39, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

User watchlist

Hey, I installed your user watchlist script, but it doesn't seem to be functioning. Whenever I load the page, it says "Below are the edits made in the last 1 day by users on your watchlist," but nothing comes up. I know for a fact I've got hundreds of users' talk pages on my watchlist. Can you think of anything that may have happened? Thanks! GlassCobra (Review) 14:37, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not too sure what happened. I presume you pressed Ctrl + F5 after saving the page with your monobook.js so it could be something wrong with how the browser is handling the Ajax requests. What browser are you using? Tra (Talk) 22:23, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Camino, as of now. I'm on a Mac, so Ctrl + F5 doesn't work for me. GlassCobra (Review) 18:13, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I've never used that browser myself, but from their website, it says that you need to press Command-Option-E to clear the cache. Try that, but if it still doesn't work, it could be that the script doesn't support that particular browser, unfortunately. Tra (Talk) 20:54, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Interesting. Doesn't seem to work on Safari, either, even after bypassing my cache. Any suggestions? GlassCobra (Review) 21:18, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I've only tested it on FireFox and Internet Explorer, so you could try using either of those browsers. Tra (Talk) 21:23, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Got it, Firefox actually works. Thanks for all your help! GlassCobra 21:29, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Sidebartranslate.js

Would it be possible to arrange the list alphabetically as well? Currently it is arranged according to the native name of the language, but makes the list look ike this:

German      (Deutsch)
Spanish     (Español)
French      (Français)

It looks an unordered mess that makes me have to guess where a langage is situated. Thank you for your consideration, ChrisDHDR 18:13, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

There is a function in javascript for sorting arrays, but in this situation it gets more complex, since it involves sorting objects (the bullet points in the languages box), and saying that they need to be sorted by the link text, instead of e.g. the href or language code. Unfortunately, I don't have much experience of handling this type of array so I won't be able to do what you're requesting right now. Tra (Talk) 21:45, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Section bar

DatRoot is working on a Java bar for beta right now. Best, --Gp75motorsports 16:26, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant, it sounds good. Tra (Talk) 17:12, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your user watchlist, I use it lots for monitoring my schools ip address XD PhilB ~ ^T/_C 13:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I also really liked your talk page, so I sorta stole the design, hope you don't mind!!! PhilB ~ ^T/_C 17:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

No, that's all right! Tra (Talk) 17:05, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for your work in the "Request an account" section   Jhony  |  Talk   06:14, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

User Tracker

I there anyway to change the time from 1 day to 1 hour. And also add it to my own page and not link to yours?--Jab843 (talk) 22:15, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Changing it from 1 day to 1 hour would require re-writing the uwgetstartdate function, which I haven't got time to do at the moment, but I might do later on. Changing the page that the user watchlist appears on is a bit simpler, although by following these instructions, a side effect is that you will no longer have the code updated automatically if I edit it.

1. Go to the edit page here. In the box where you can view the source, copy the entire contents of that box to the clipboard.
2. Go to Special:Mypage/monobook.js. Edit the page, delete the line which refers to the user watchlist and instead paste in the contents of the clipboard.
3. Scroll to very near the bottom and look for these lines:

 uwaddToolboxLink('http://' + document.location.hostname + '/wiki/' + 'User:Tra/User watchlist', 'User watchlist', 'uw_link');

 if (wgPageName == 'User:Tra/User_watchlist') { //

4. Replace the text in red with the name of the page you would like to use for the user watchlist, making sure that you surround the name with single quotes, and you use underscores instead of spaces in the second line.

5. Save the page

6. Create the page that you will use for the user watchlist, and make sure that it contains no or very little text.

7. Press Ctrl + F5

Tra (Talk) 22:50, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

manual K+E=W archive at ACC

Would I have been out of line doing that myself? --barneca (talk) 21:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Normally the bot would handle it but when it doesn't work, or does something wrong, anyone can fix whatever mistake it makes. Tra (Talk) 21:44, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Another problem with the complicated Firearms template

Thanks for fixing the Firearms template to allow grams to be used. The template has another problem. Look at .50 BMG and you will see that "Overall length 5.45 in (138.43 mm)". This is excessive precision. It should really only be '138 mm'.

I think all these problems is because the template is trying to be too clever. It should be just like other templates and simply have a field name such as 'Overall length' and editors can then write whatever they want. For example '5.45 in (138 mm)'. If automated conversion is required, there are other templates that can do that in a much simpler way.

Can you investigate a fix for this problem of precision? Or, like me, would you like to suggest a major simplification of the template? Lightmouse (talk) 09:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I've changed the length field to use the {{sigfig}} template to round the value to 3 significant figures, rather than to 2 decimal places as was done before. This method could also be used on the other fields, but one thing I need to ask is should the converted values be rounded to 3 sig fig or to the same number of significant figures as the source value, since both are possible.

As for the option of simplifying the template, although this will be a lot more flexible for when unusual values are used, it would reduce consistency and it would be quite difficult to perform the conversion - hundreds of pages would need to be updated at once, and whilst the conversion is ongoing, the articles that use the wrong syntax at a given point would not display correctly. Tra (Talk) 16:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Precision is part art and part science. However, I would suggest sig fig matching of input and output (rather than using exactly 3 sig fig). I default to matching sig figures. Then I use skill and judgement to adjust from there. The requirement to adjust is another reason why I do not like code to fill in the field values for me.

The convert template has recently been updated to do sig fig matching by default, with a minimum of 2 sig fig. The template user can add a setting that demands a specific number of sig fig. Thus {{convert|760|ft/s|m/s}} should produce 2 sig figures and {{convert|760|ft/s|m/s|sigfig=3}} should produce 3 sig figures. The minimum of 2 sig figures will apply for {{convert|800|ft/s|m/s}} even though the input only has one.

I agree that code is better at enforcing consistency. We have gained consistency at the expense of (a) the proper output and (b) the ability for ordinary editors to understand how to make the appropriate change. I do not think the trade-off is worth it.

I agree that if we were to simplify the code, the transition would result in the wrong syntax during transition. However, if we wanted to make the transition, I am sure it could be done reasonably quickly. If I were doing it, I could take one field at a time and delete the unit characters e.g. 'gr' plus the conversion code. Then I could go to each article (I counted 210 articles) and add 'gr'. I could add the conversion (e.g. using the convert template) either immediately or at my leisure because it is not urgent. If more than one person was doing it, it would be quicker. I certainly believe the transition would be worth it and we could get rid of all complicated stuff about SI and non-SI options. Furthermore, we still use the simple method in .50 BMG to produce "Test barrel length: 45 in (1143 mm)"

Anyway, I greatly appreciate your help. Lightmouse (talk) 18:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I've changed the all the length measurements to use the {{convert}} template if a valid number has been specified, and otherwise to just display what was specified in the parameter with no automated calculations. Unfortunately, {{convert}} doesn't deal with pressure or energy so I'll need to find another way of doing those. Tra (Talk) 22:54, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I am very impressed with the changes you are making. I would never have worked it out. As you may know, the convert template can deal with grains, grams, foot pound force and joules. See the text that produces the following:

• 647 gr (41.9 g)
• 13,144 ft⋅lbf (17,821 J)

The convert template is under active development. Some of the options have not been documented yet. I am sure if we ask at Template talk:Convert, they will let us know the progress on pressure units or if it has already been done. Lightmouse (talk) 09:58, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your continued work. I presume that you know that the convert template does units of speed such as: {{convert|760|ft/s|m/s}}. Feel free to look in on the discussions at Template talk:Convert. Regards Lightmouse (talk) 21:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

The last one left to do is case capacity. {{Convert}} handles cm³ but not gr H2O. I'm not sure exactly how that unit works since I've never seen it before and it isn't mentioned on Grain (measure) either. Tra (Talk) 22:43, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

(outdented) I found the following here:

To get the loading density you need to know the case capacity accounting for the space left after a bullet is seated. Here is an easy way to do that. Take a bullet that you will be using and cut a groove on one side of it. It should be running from the heel up to the ogive. Next weigh the case and the prepared bullet together to get the tare weight. (be sure to put a fired primer in the case) Then size the case and fill it full of water. Then seat the prepared bullet to the proper depth. The water it displaces will escape out the groove. Dry off the outside of the water filled cartridge with it's bullet seated and weigh it. The difference between the empty dry case with bullet seated and the water filled one will be capacity of the powder chamber in grains of water. You now know how many grains of powder you can put in the case. But remember you must go by the loading manual. You can not just dump the water weight of powder in and shoot it. But you can pick the powder that will come the closest to the powder weight capacity for the maximum safe and most dense load and there fore the fastest and likely the most accurate load for that cartridge.

So maybe you should be able to convert grains of water to a grams of water (and not cc). In anycase I hope that helps. —MJCdetroit (talk) 21:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, that was very useful. Tra (Talk) 21:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

It maybe helpful to seek out someone at Wikipedia:WikiProject Firearms who actually does their own reloading or find a better source than the one I provided above. Sorry, I wish I could help more but I buy my .30-06's off the shelf. —MJCdetroit (talk) 00:01, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

{{Convert}} does support energy conversions—these are yet to be documented. Also pressure has recently (on Monday) been added. So far the following are supported.

Pressure
unit	code	abbreviation		sample conversion
megapascal	MPa		MPa		1.0 MPa (150 psi)	‎
kilopascal	kPa		kPa		1.0 kPa (0.15 psi)	‎
hectopascal	hPa		hPa		1.0 hPa (0.015 psi)	‎
pascal	Pa		Pa		1.0 Pa (0.00015 psi)	‎
‎mPa‎	‎mPa‎		(none)		1.0 ‎mPa‎	‎
millibar	mbar		mbar		1.0 mbar (1.0 hPa)	‎
millibar	mb		mb		1.0 mb (1.0 hPa)	‎
‎dbar	‎dbar		(none)		1.0 ‎dbar	‎
bar	bar		(none)		1.0 bar (100 kPa)	‎
kilobarye	kBa		kBa		1.0 kBa (1.0 hPa)	‎
‎Ba	‎Ba		(none)		1.0 ‎Ba	‎
standard atmosphere	atm		atm		1.0 atm (100 kPa)	‎
torr	Torr		Torr		1.0 Torr (0.13 kPa)	‎
millimetre of mercury	mmHg		mmHg		1.0 mmHg (0.13 kPa)	‎
inch of mercury	inHg		inHg		1.0 inHg (3.4 kPa)	‎
pound per square inch	psi		psi		1.0 psi (6.9 kPa)	‎

I could add grain of water if I'm pointed in the direction of some definition of the unit (preferably with a reliable source so we could add it to Grain (mass)). Jɪmp 02:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

It isn't a unit of mass; it is a unit of volume, just like those 70,000 gr H₂O imperial gallons. Gene Nygaard (talk) 06:00, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

A bigger problem here is that these numbers when used on Wikipedia don't have a reliable source. Most likely they are original research, aren't they, Tra? That's why you are so busy telling us the details about how to do it, because you are the only one doing it. Right? Gene Nygaard (talk) 06:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Not a unit of mass ... no, I was only suggesting it be added to Grain (mass) because of its relation to the unit of mass, being the volume of one grain of water (since it wouldn't make much of an article by itself ... would it?). Jɪmp 06:27, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the pressure details; these have been added to the template. As for gr H2O, {{Infobox Firearm Cartridge}} uses the calculations 1 cm³ = 15.432 gr H2O and 1 gr H2O = 0.065 cm³. These were added in this edit on 10 September 2007. Since I'm not familiar with the subject area, I don't know if it's original research or if sources are just hard to find. Tra (Talk) 17:31, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

If 1 cm³ = 15.432 gr H₂O, then 1 gr H₂O ≈ 0.064800415 cm³. This is a little smaller than the factor used for conversions going the other way, i.e. 1 gr H₂O ≈ 0.065 cm³. One seventy thousandth of an imperial gallon is approximately 0.06494414286 cm³ ... interesting how this value squeezes itself between the other two, ay ... not really (just a product of rounding) ... 1 gr = 0.06479891 g thus 1 gr ≈ 0.065 g and (taking the inverse) 1 g ≈ 15.432358 gr ≈ 15.432 gr. One gram of water (at about 4 °C & 1 atm) has a volume of (approximately) 1 cm³. What's the status of these two different defintions? I've been looking on the web but can't find much on grains of water.

The conversion factor given by Gene, "1 imperial gallon = 70,000 gr H2O", seems well defined and well sourced (Weights and Measures Act 1824). But, of course, if these gr H₂O values are coming from US sources (as they probably are), it should be not surprise that a different definition is being used—why would Americans define a unit in terms of the imperial gallon? Where do we look to find this other definition? Suppose we do find it, would it be appropriate to refer to the first definition as an "imperial" grain of water and the second as a "US customary" grain of water ... and if not, how else do we distinguish them?

I could, of course, just use the Weights and Measures Act 1824 definition and overlook the slight difference (the error would actually be reduced slightly when it comes to conversions from gr H₂O to cm³ due to the rounding up to 0.065 g) Jɪmp 04:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Arbitration Committee Elections Summary table

Hello Tra, you and user:Carcharoth were very helpful last year with Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2006/Summary table. Would you like to join in this again this year? — Sebastian 07:57, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I've made a start at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2007/Summary table. Tra (Talk) 16:32, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Cool! Thanks a lot! See also User talk:Carcharoth#Arbitration Committee Elections Summary table. — Sebastian 02:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!

Hi Tra, thanks for your help with edits! Buzybeez (talk) 23:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)