Uniulstgrad

Welcome!

Hello, Uniulstgrad, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:

• Getting Started
• Introduction to Wikipedia
• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article
• Simplified Manual of Style

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Fiddle Faddle 13:20, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Re:creating a redirect

If you want to create an article on your suggested topic, I would recommend going through the Articles for Creation process. There, you can submit an article and have other, more experienced users review it before it goes into article space. As for your requested redirect, I'm not sure whether the title you submitted will make a good redirect. When I review redirects, what I look for is if there is a good chance that many people other than yourself would search that title. Your title doesn't seem like one that people would really search in relation to learning disabilities. Lugia2453 (talk) 21:55, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Uniulstgrad. You have new messages at Lugia2453's talk page.
Message added 16:25, 6 November 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Lugia2453 (talk) 16:25, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Articles and redirects and things

You have posted a very long request on a couple of talk pages I watch. That request falls into the WP:TLDR category of request, So I thought you might need some help.

First, to have a redirect one must have the article to which it redirects. Colour me obtuse, but I could not see what that was.

Second, the redirect has to be something that people would look for in WIkipedia's search engine, or in (eg) Google or Bing, a useful and descriptive pseudo-title for the article, but, generally, one that is not obvious (a thing which is hard to explain).

So please help me out.

• What is the article to which you wish the redirect to aim?
• What is/are the redirect(s) that you wish to create?
• Why do you not just create the redirects anyway?

I can help you a little if I know the answers to these questions. Fiddle Faddle 13:26, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your help

Hello Fiddle Faddle

Thank you very much for your speedy reply to my request and your offer to help me. Thank you also for welcoming me to Wikipedia.

Thank you for your advice on my previous request falling into the WP:TLDR. I will try to keep my requests short from now on. Thank you. Here are the answers to the 3 questions you have asked me.

1) I wish to create a redirect from the 'Learning Disabilty' Wikipedia article.

2) The redirect I wish to create is 'Learning Disability Future Care.'

3) I have created the redirect in Articles for creation/Redirects section. However, I have been declined before. Do you mean, why did I not create a new article anyway?

I am new to Wikipedia and would like the help of an experienced user like you. I would appreciate your help and advice. Thank you again Regards Uniulstgrad (talk) 14:40, 8 November 2013 (UTC)Ian

I'm about to move the reply I just posted in my own talk page to here. Bear with me. Fiddle Faddle 17:25, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

@Uniulstgrad: We were all new to Wikipedia once.

I've given this some thought. IT seems to me that this Wikipedia search ought to bring up Learning disability in the results list and should do so near the top, but it does not. And the reason is, presumably, that the words future or care or both are not present in the main article. However that is patently not the case.

Equally, the article itself is very light on aspects of care per se.

So I have a suggestion for you, one I think you will like, but may find awkward because you are new to Wikipedia: in your sandbox, a place you will find here, create the draft of what will be a new section within Learning disability after it is finished. Do it as well as you can, ensuring that you find references in reliable sources to back up the facts you state within it. Learn how the full citation scheme works and read User:Timtrent/A good article to discover a little more about the ways to create something worthwhile here. Do not go off into areas of preaching. WP:SOAPBOX is to be avoided. However good one's cause, Wikipedia simply does not care.

When you've done it, and at any point while you are doing it, feel free to ask me or anyone you respect to have a look at it and to be truly brutal with it. It will receive brutal editing in the main namespace, so brutality in a safe place like your sandbox is relatively painless. Be sure to invite us to make edits if that is what you want us to do, because a sandbox is a private place and people do not normally breach privacy by trampling uninvited.

For now, let's set the redirect concept aside. Today it has no legs. After the new section is finally ready and inserted into the article, then is the time for the redirect.

Now you are completely at liberty to disagree with this advice. I shall not be upset or offended in any way. But, where you do disagree, let's discuss it.

Finally for now, remember that the only thing to take personally on Wikipedia is praise. Fiddle Faddle 17:27, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I will follow your advice and create a draft insert.

Hello Fiddle Faddle

Thank you so much for taking the time to consider how I such proceed. I will follow your advice and create a draft 'insert' and place it in the sandbox.

I will make sure to do as good a draft as I can and reference it properly. It may take me a day or two to do this.

When I have placed the draft 'insert' in my sandbox, I would appreciate it if you could take some time to read it and give me your opinion and advice on it.

Your help has been very much appreciated.

Thanks again Fiddle Faddle. Regards Uniulstgrad (talk) 22:14, 8 November 2013 (UTC)Ian

A total pleasure. Ask me on my talk page when you are ready. Fiddle Faddle 23:45, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Insert draft completed and in sandbox

Hello Fiddle Faddle

I have completed my draft 'insert' and have placed it in my sandbox. I have inserted my references as requested. I would be grateful if you could take a look at my draft and provide me with advice and feedback on it.

Thank you in advance for your help. Uniulstgrad (talk) 13:46, 10 November 2013 (UTC)Ian

I shall look. Since you have not invited me to edit it I shall leave comments on the sandbox talk page for you to consider.

No need to use the help me templet, by the way. That simply alerts a load of folk as well as me :) Fiddle Faddle 13:57, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

I have read it in detail, and placed my comments on the sandbox talk page, section by section. Great start. Really good work. I'm asking for major edits, but what a great place to start from. Fiddle Faddle 14:19, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Fiddle Faddle

Thank you replying so quickly to me, and for taking the time to read my draft in detail. Thanks also for your positive words of encouragement, they are much appreciated.

I am grateful for the advice and recommendations you have provided me with to improve my draft. I will follow your advice and will make the improvements you suggest. Once again, it may take me a day or two to do so.

When I have made the changes I would, once again, appreciate it if you could take another look at for me and offer your advice.

P.s. I am happy to invite you to edit my sandbox and would be grateful if you could tell me how to invite you.

Thanks again for your time and advice. Will speak to you soon. Uniulstgrad (talk) 18:22, 10 November 2013 (UTC)Ian

That message serves perfectly well as an invitation. I will do my best. If I can add value it will be my pleasure. Take the time you need. I see no urgency about this, just a quiet and painstaking need to get it as good as it can be. Fiddle Faddle 18:27, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Ok, thanks Fiddle Faddle. I will take my time, as recommended. P.s. The only thing I need to learn is how to do a wikilink. Can you inform me how to do these? Thanks again Uniulstgrad (talk) 18:35, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

A wikilink is a pair of [ before and a pair of ] after a word or phrase Help:Cheatsheet tells you all. Take your time and play. Fiddle Faddle 19:19, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Ok, will do. Thanks again Fiddle Faddle. Speak to you soon. Uniulstgrad (talk) 20:57, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

2nd Draft

Hi Fiddle Faddle

Thank you for your advice regarding my article draft. I have taken your advice onboard and have acted upon all of your recommendations.

I have flattened the language, précised and edited my article in quite a draconian fashion. I agree with you, this looks better. I have also placed wikilinks into the article, where appropriate.

As discussed previously, I would appreciate it if you could take a look at my article and edit it further, if you feel that this is required.

P.s. Please note that for reference numbers 16, 17, 21 and 22 the URL's are showing as errors in my sandbox. However, I have checked these web addresses again and they are all correct and open the respective websites. I would be grateful if you could look at this also.

Thank you in advance for your help. I look forward to hearing from you soon. Regards Uniulstgrad (talk) 21:09, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

I know you will be impatient to hear from me, but I have a family gathering and a long weekend approaching. If I can get time I will look on Thursday, otherwise it will be late Monday before i can take a detailed look. Feel free to give me a shout of you have heard nothing from me by late Tuesday. Fiddle Faddle 00:43, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Fiddle Faddle

That's fine, no problem. Any help that you can give me will be much appreciated. Speak to you soon. Regards Uniulstgrad (talk) 13:21, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I don't stand a chance before Tuesday. I managed to throw a cup of tea into my laptop and it is at the repairers. I can only get small periods on a borrowed and shared machine, and that will probably be the case most of next week, if not all of it. Feel free to titivate more on the basis that, even sight unseen, I am going to bet that you have kept more material than it needs. Trim, trim and then trim some more. Fiddle Faddle 19:42, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Fiddle Faddle

Sorry to hear about your laptop. I hope you are able to get it fixed soon. I have been working on my references. I have corrected the URL's of the website citations and have been ammending the other references one by one. I have also read through it again to remove any emotive words I could see.

I hope that your family gathering went well this weekend. Once again, I would be grateful if you could take a read through my article upon your return and offer your advice. Feel free to make draconian edits where you feel it would be necessary.

I look forward to hearing from you soon as I am very keen to get my article finished and published on Wikipedia.

RegardsUniulstgrad (talk) 18:47, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

I grabbed some time :) Fiddle Faddle 10:02, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

What I suggest is that you have a crack at my suggestions on the sandbox talk page, and then look at this line in the sandbox banner: "If you are writing an article, and are ready to request its creation, click here." and actually click there.

Why do I suggest this? Assuredly not lack of commitment on my part, but I have a problem. I am now standing too close to the article. It needs the eyes of others. However, the scheme it enters the article into does have a backlog. You rely on helpful editors clearing that backlog. It thus delays this article (note, not your article) from arriving into main namespace. But the benefit is that, when it does arrive anyway, it is very likely to be in excellent condition and to survive any attempt to have it deleted. You need to weigh your desire to see it live against your desire for it to remain live. I am by no means certain that, even after your hard work and my suggestions, that it will remain live. I see it as a borderline article, certainly at present and after my suggestions.

In the intervening period, assuming you wish to show it to people who may find it beneficial, you can aim them at your sandbox. Fiddle Faddle 12:32, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Fiddle Faddle

Thank you once again for replying to me with good advice. I have tried my very best to make all of the suggestions in the sandbox talk page that you have recommended. However, I will take one last read through it tonight and tomorrow to see if I can improve upon this.

I think that you are correct, maybe the fresh eyes of other editors could see something that I have missed. So... I am prepared to take the risk and click on the 'request creation click here' button tomorrow after I have made any final improvements that I can see. Although I want to get my article live, I agree with you that the edits it may receive from other helpful editors in that section will help to ensure that it remains live.

In the meantime, if there is anything at all you can see in the article before tomorrow, that obviously needs changing, please feel free to change it.

Thank you again Fiddle Faddle for your help and advice. You have been very patient and generous with your time. I hope that the editors in the 'request creation' section are as helpful as you are.

I will keep you informed of any progress the article makes.

Thank you once again Warmest regards Uniulstgrad (talk) 16:23, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Obviously only submit it to the process when you have decided what to do about the tags I've inserted or it will fail at once :)

The process is not a risk. It means, simply, that volunteers who are used to taking articles apart and showing people what is needed are exposed to the article, but in a safe place. It may be that they will judge that it is incapable of becoming an article whatever you do. This will feel like a bitter blow, but it truly is not. If it won't fly, you have still learned a great deal about the topic, some of which you would never have discovered before. This means that your wisdom is more useful in your usual environment.

If they judge that it can be made ready to fly, that's awesome, and what we all work towards. In this case patience is a huge virtue. Don;t try to short circuit the process. INstead go with ait and submit yourself to it. You will learn a huge amount about editing Wikipedia. Fiddle Faddle 18:38, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Article Sent and Review Waiting

Hi Fiddle Faddle

Please accept my sincere thanks for all of your advice and help to get this article to this stage. Thank you also for all of the edits you made to the article in the last few days. They were much appreciated.

I have added all of the citations requested in your tags and have posted the article in the 'articles for creation' process and have been sent the message to say that the review is waiting and that it may take several weeks or months due to a backlog.

I was wondering, how does this article become included as part of the Learning Disability main article? Will the 'articles for creation' migration process take care of this?

I would be grateful if you could also advise me how I could put the article live, if I do not hear from the 'review waiting' process within the next couple of weeks.

Many thanks again for everything Uniulstgrad (talk)

I'm going to counsel you to have patience with the process. You have no need to take this advice, but it is the best chance for the article to go live as an article. IT will get you the very best advice, the best help and the best probability of learning if the article can survive as a freestanding article. MY belief is that it can and should, though the final form may be different from today's.

When it goes live you will wikilink it from the main article. It is that simple.

I come back to my advice, now, to await results. I simply do not have the skill in this arena to make a judgment about the article's survival prognosis. At present and despite your very hard work, I view it as borderline. The problem is that, should it go live and be sent to WP:AFD and be deleted, it is very hard indeed to resurrect it. The rules are against it. So my advice to you here is to use the strategy of the full WP:AFC process, and the tactics of making pretty much every goshdarned edit suggested until it is viewed as suitable for release. I do not suggest this lightly. I have excellent experience in and expertise in getting articles to stay online first time every time, and, even with that skillset, I would have doubts about presenting this article myself.

I shall not get upset if you disagree with my advice, and I will be very happy if you prove my suggestions to have been without merit and show me how the article has survived in the wild, don't get me wrong! I just want your work to have what I view as the best chance of bearing real fruit.

Good edits, by the way! Fiddle Faddle 22:09, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Look!

Future planning

I think it needs a subtly different title to reflect the learning disability aspect, perhaps Future planning (Learning disability), and it can be moved there with ease. You can do it if you choose. Fiddle Faddle 23:30, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Other titles spring to mind:

• ... (elderly carers)
• ... (disability care) [it is wider, seriously wider, than just learning disabilities]
• etc etc

You need to give this aspect some thought. Your initial article is of wider appeal than either you or I had considered. Fiddle Faddle 23:35, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

And, guess what? Yes, you created a B CLASS article. This usually takes a long time to learn how to achieve! Awesome job. Fiddle Faddle 23:57, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

After thought, Future planning for disability care looks like the best title I have thought of. It embraces more than one disability. I am going to be bold and to make that change. An article may be moved to new titles quite often until it settles on one. Fiddle Faddle 00:14, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Fiddle Faddle

THANK YOU SO MUCH. THIS IS WONDERFUL NEWS!

I would like to express my sincere thanks to you for all of your help over the last couple of weeks. Your expert help and guidance has helped to ensure that the article was in good shape and enabled it to be published 'live'. Your advice and recommendations have been really great.

Thank you also for your patience in guiding me through each step of the process. You have been a great mentor.

Fiddle Faddle, I would be grateful if you could pass on my thanks to the editor Lugia for reviewing the article so quickly.

It is great to see the article on the Wikipedia website. Thanks again for helping to get it there! Your guidance and encouragement have been very much appreciated.

Many thanks again Warmest regards Uniulstgrad (talk) 13:10, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

I have already thanked Lugia2453, but do pop over to their talk page and drop them a line, too.

I accept your thanks, but it was you who did the work. All you were unaware of is how best to achieve your goal.

An article is a developing area. There is much scope for this one to be expanded, now, way beyond the niche of Learning Disabilities, and I hope you will enjoy whatever changes the community (and you) make to it. We father articles, we do not mother them. By this I mean that that article that was your creation is now a child exploring in the wild. Fathers have pride, mothers want to bandage knees. Be the father, not the mother. Guide it by all means, but read and know WP:OWN and do not even consider owning it.

What topic is next for you? Or will you hone your skills editing in other articles to start with (I recommend that approach)? Fiddle Faddle 13:17, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Fiddle Faddle

I agree with you. It is important for the creators to 'let go' of an article and let it continue to be developed by others in the community. I look forward to watching it grow.

As for the future, first of all I am going to take a few days break to savour and enjoy the moment. I am just so thrilled that the article made it 'live' on Wikipedia! Then, I think I will follow your advice and try editing an existing article. I will take a search around and find one that I enjoy reading and would enjoy working on. If I feel I can add some value to it's content I will practice a small edit of it. Hopefully I can still come to you for advice and guidance when I do this. Your help and experience have been invaluable. You are a great mentor!

Thanks again Fiddle Faddle Kind regards Uniulstgrad (talk) 22:34, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

I did a lot with an article I detested, but which was controversial. I learned how to defuse controversy and argue for neutrality. It was an excellent exercise in self discipline. I found sources for citation gaps, and learned the policies here reasonably well. I realised that I never wish to be an admin here, too. Come and ask whatever you wish. If I have the answer it will be yoiurs. :) Fiddle Faddle 22:53, 21 November 2013 (UTC)