Vanishingrabbit

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 20:14, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Will Gray

The article Will Gray has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Needs reliable sources

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 20:14, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Vanishingrabbit. You have new messages at Seb az86556's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

RE:your message

Hi, thanks for your message. As far as I can see, the only source you have thus far is Gray's own website, which, naturally, isn't neutral since he wrote it himself. It would be helpful if there were some newspaper-articles or other stuff that write about him. Let me have another look, maybe we can shuffle things around a little; meanwhile, try to read WP:RS. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 20:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, saw the FFFF-statement... Since I'm not an expert on this magic-stuff, I'll give you the benefit of a doubt, and I'll try to somehow weed out the rest. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 21:00, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 20:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Also Re: Your Message

I've gone and redirected all your articles to Will Gray. Creating duplicate articles creates multiple issues down the road, because editors begin to work independently on different ones, ultimately creating vastly different articles on the same subject. If your article doesn't survive deletion process, then those redirects will also be deleted, so there isn't really a need to get rid of them yet. Also, when you're writing messages on talk pages, remember to compose your message at the bottom of the page, and sign your posts using four tildes (~~~~). Now get to work finding reliable sources to establish notability for this person. Cheers, Steamroller Assault (talk) 21:00, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Image without license

Unspecified source/license for File:Will gray at FFFF's convention.jpg

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This is an automated notice by MifterBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. NOTE: Once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. --MifterBot ^{(Talk • Contribs • Owner)} 11:02, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

This as now been rectified with a copy righted image --Vanishingrabbit (talk) 01:00, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Will Gray for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Will Gray is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Will Gray until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. MB 14:37, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi

The Will Gray wiki page as been there since 2010 without a problem I've updated the photos and the text to be relevant and not out of date also added more citations, could you please tell me why it is now up for deletion. (Vanishingrabbit (talk) 14:57, 28 January 2019 (UTC))

Also now fixed the two unlinked PDF files--Vanishingrabbit (talk) 16:58, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Vanishingrabbit. I'm a host at the Teahouse where we try to support new or inexperienced editors. If you'll allow me, I'd like to help you understand certain actions which have been taken, and tell you of certain things you need to do yourself. User:MB reached out to me after you emailed him about the deletion discussion of Will Gray that he/she initiated. I should say that we wouldn't normally email one another about such matters - every communication should be conducted in an open, public way - but it was an easy mistake to make.

First off, I recognise it's horrible when someone proposes an article you care about for deletion. It's happened to me, but it's not necessarily the end of the article. I try to vote 'keep' in as many such discussions as I feel I can, based upon our policies and guidelines. You did ask "why now?". Well, no reason really, except that another editor would have looked at your page, as anyone can, and made an assessment whether it meets our Notability Criteria, and found it wanting. This is a key element on whether or not an article should exist here - and many of the 5 million articles here have been around for years before someone reassesses their merits and initiates a deletion discussion. It probably came to light through our 'recent changes' list which shows live edits as they happen, and your article probably surfaced because of your latest edits.

Now, I've had a look at your article and, apart from one thing, I see little of the "independent, in-depth coverage through reliable sources" of Will Gray that I would expect of all other subjects here. There are lots of links to insider events and performances etc, but nothing that shows the subject meets our notable person or notable entertainer criteria. Except, that is, for the rather select membership of the Inner Magic Circle. It's just possible that that might be deemed suitable under WP:ANYBIO. That could potentially be a clincher, so can you supply any evidence of this membership other than the Will Gray website? Newspaper articles etc?

Finally, on a different note - and one I'm surprised no-one has ever raised with you before - is to highlight a requirement upon all editors to declare any conflict of interest they might have in editing an article. Perhaps you are the subject of the article yourself, related to them, or are acting on their behalf in some capacity? Your past editing activity suggests a single purpose account acting to promote the subject so, if this the case, and if you do have an undisclosed connection with Will Gray, you are obligated to declare that according to this conflict of interest policy and WP:PAID. Under those circumstances you should declare this on your userpage, the article talk page or whenever you make any edits. As per WP:SELFPROMOTE, you should not edit that page directly, but request improvements by unconnected editors.

I hope this helps to explain things a little better. If you have any questions, my fellow volunteer hosts at the Teahouse are there 24/7 to help with user questions. Regards from the East Midlands, Nick Moyes (talk) 01:56, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi Nick Thank you for replying thats very insightful I have two PDF's one which is the letter from the president himself congratulating Will on being promoted to MIMC and one of the Magic Circle minutes where it is mentioned in the secretary's report.

Would they be best to be put on as citation links or just links.

Ive also put a link to Will winning 3rd at The Magic Circle Close up Comp which is no easy task.

I'm really hoping it doesn't come to deletion but do understand why these things happen any further help would be great.--Vanishingrabbit (talk) 09:59, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi VR. I didn't reply as I saw you had useful responses at the Teahouse. Whilst there's still tons wrong with the article, your focus should be on:

1. Does membership of the Inner Magic Circle confer notability in Wikipedia's eyes;
2. Have you clearly demonstrated that WG has that MIMC membership? (and newspaper stories\Magic Circle announcements?)
3. If 1 and 2 are met, your page meets our notability standards (and the lead sentence should make that point). It should say something like "WG is a magician and a member of the Inner Magic Circle. (I'd then follow that link and find some source which you can add to that article to support the statement that it's a very select group, etc etc.)

The problem is, there's no magician-based policy for notability. I've been wracking my brain to think how to go about gaining consensus on that - maybe our village pump. I'm honestly not sure on that one. But if you can a) find reliablle publishhed sources to support exactly what gaining MIMC entails, and who merits it, then that would help. Then, b) you or I could present that for consideration as a criterion for notability. In the meantime, should a page get deleted we have a thing called WP:REFUND where one can later on request 'undeletion'. Don't hold out too much hope, but let me know what you think. Nick Moyes (talk) 01:25, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi Nick Thanks for the reply and help I've found a couple of sites that mention the president has to award MIMC and that its the highest award but being a private club theres very little on this, even other wiki pages that mention MIMC only link to the Magic Circles wiki page if you wouldn't mind presenting it for consideration as a criterion for notability it maybe better. thanks for the help I'll keep trying thanks--Vanishingrabbit (talk) 17:26, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi Nick I’m confused once again someone as mentioned three links that are mistakes and the list of magicians mentioned which are just a list of magicians on Wikipedia which he wouldn’t appear at the top of with his surname beginning with G--Vanishingrabbit (talk) 00:11, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Your thread has been archived

Hi Vanishingrabbit! You created a thread called Help with a site thats up for deletion at Wikipedia:Teahouse, but it has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days. You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please create a new thread. Archival by Lowercase sigmabot III, notification delivery by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} (ban this bot) or {{nobots}} (ban all bots) on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:01, 3 February 2019 (UTC)