Here is a record of the discussion page for Independent advocacy before it was deleted:
Hi Hyacinth. Thanks for your message on my talk page. But I'm really unhappy about the edit you made to the intro to this article. The links to advocacy and advocate are misleading as these articles have different meanings to the meaning of the current article. Also the original introduction was taken from published information that was agreed after a long process of editing by a group of professional independent advocates. There are specific reasons why it was worded in this way. I realise it doesn't come across as 'objective', but this is so that ordinary people can understand it. This also relates directly to your Alan Watts quote: if ordinary people can't understand it, it probably doesn't mean what it's supposed to mean.
There is another alternative introduction which is gaining consensus around the country. It is Action for Advocacy's definition. For me it is again a little too wordy and is not immediately understandable to the sort of people who use advocates. I can't seem to access their website right now, but I will add their definition when I can. I would be happy to have a debate between established definitions, but for someone to come along and just change a definition into something essentially meaningless is not very helpful to any Wikipedia user. Visctrix 00:52, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
- If this information was taken from a published document you absolutely need to cite that document. You have already been introduced to Wikipedia:No original research, see also Wikipedia:Copyright problems and Wikipedia:Cite sources.
- Please note that I did not get rid of anything from the introduction. Advocate states than an "advocate is one who speaks on behalf of another." This is completly compatible with the meaning used in this article. Advocacy disambigs to advocate and so I removed it.
- Hyacinth 03:08, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
- The specific source documents are only published locally, by Advocacy Action. They are in line with other local publications from around the country. You can get copies on request in pdf format by emailing [1]
- Advocacy Action is currently registering as an Industrial and Provident Society with exempt charitable status (basically a charity, but simpler and more democratic). It is trying to raise funding to keep going, but it's business plan does already state its commitment to openness, including the use of open source software. As long as I am the Project Coordinator anything it publishes will be completely free and open to adaptation, and I have the support of the Management Committee on this point.
- As to your suggestion that an "advocate is one who speaks on behalf of another," this is not compatible with the usage in this article, and I addressed this point in the third bullet of the section on Other key points. Always the aim of advocates is to support people to become self advocates, to speak up for themselves. There are plenty of people around who are ready to speak on behalf of another, including it seems Wikipedia administrators, but with the best will in the world it is easy to fall into the trap of misrepresentation.
- Visctrix 09:15, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
The UK Government has recently passed two acts into legislation that will have a significant impact on the field of independent advocacy. The Mental Capacity Act 2005 brings in the role of the Independent Mental Capacity Advocate (IMCA), and the Mental Health Act 2005 brings in the role of Independent Mental Health Act Advocates (IMHAAs). These articles need writing too. Visctrix
- The Action for Advocacy definition mentioned above is:
"Advocacy is taking action to help people say what they want, secure their rights, represent their interests and obtain services they need. Advocates and advocacy schemes work in partnership with the people they support and take their side. Advocacy promotes social inclusion, equality and social justice."Action for Advocacy
- The original introduction to this article was:
Advocacy is about speaking up, or being helped to speak up. It is about ensuring people have the skills, confidence and support to stand up for themselves.
Many of us act as informal advocates: for our children, our parents, our friends, or other people. Helping people to speak up for themselves is a simple and natural thing to do.
Independent Advocacy is provided by trained advocates and organisations that work within established frameworks. Independent advocates are independent of any other carers or service providers that work with an individual. Independent advocacy is always FREE and CONFIDENTIAL.
- This has been changed to:
Independent Advocacy is support and assistance provided by trained advocates and organisations that work within established frameworks but are independent of any other care-givers or service providers that work with an individual. Independent advocacy is always free and confidential.
- Any comments? Visctrix 21:52, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
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