When6is9

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Thank you.

Is there a way to remove the word espionage from the title of rote kapelle? The name was a misleading Gestapo term. The groups in France and Switzerland were espionage groups. The group in Berlin wasn't - except in the files of the Gestapo. In reality, they were a pure resistance group.

harnack, arplan

Do you have any information on Arplan? We try to collect all available information for an article on german Wikipedia. [1]--Radh (talk) 17:06, 2 June 2009 (UTC) For information about Arplan, please see Die Rote Kapelle by Stefan Roloff, Ullstein, 2002.

Thank You.-Radh (talk) 23:35, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Ich habe Ihre arplan Informationen in die Notizen eingebaut, muß das Buch aber natürlich noch lesen. Aber: "you protest too much". Ich verstehe Ihr Anliegen, aber ihre Nicht-Spionage Behauptung ist ja auch eine objektive These. Ich verteidige die 50er Jahre Diffamierungskampagnen nicht, aber die Harnacks waren doch beide blind-überzeugte Kommunisten (gute Gründe dafür hin oder her) und er hat, wie sie doch ganz klar selbst schreiben, den Russen Akten zukommen lassen (durch Stalins Bolschewisten Massaker nur unterbrochen), also Verrat betrieben. Das ist wie mit Fahnenflucht, natürlich können (müssen?) wir das alles verteidigen, die Verräter und Deserteure ehren. Mein Vater, der nach dem Krieg 100% Pazifist war (und so disziplinlos im Krieg, daß er in all den Jahren nix geworden ist) hatte da, wie wohl viele zeitgenössische Deutsche, die in den 1950ern doch Hitler keineswegs wiederhaben wollten, ganz knallharte nationalistische Ansichten bis zuletzt. Whatever, es besteht ja auch kein Zwang hier einer Meinung zu sein, aber der Buchinhalt widerspricht doch ihrer These ziemlich deutlich.--Radh (talk) 15:26, 4 June 2009 (UTC) (CET)

Spionage war vielleicht ein 100tel der Aktivitäten der Gruppe. Selbst die Nazis wussten das (Siehe Akten des Reichskriegsgerichts). Der Begriff wurde nach dem krieg von ehemaligen Gestapo Mitarbeitern für einen Medienskandal benutzt, der dann von anderen unreflektiert weiter getragen wurde. (Man sprach z. B. von Sowjetspionage, obwohl sich der erfolgreichste Kontakt der Berliner Gruppe mit dem Ausland über die amerikanischen Botschaft realisiert hatte) Tatsache ist, dass die Hauptarbeit der Gruppe im Verteilen von Information bestanden hatte. Dessen wurden sie (siehe hierzu auch Akten den Reichskriegsgerichts) angeklagt. Informationen vertrieben sie hauptsächlich durch Flugblätter und Klebezettel. Harnack stand dem kritisch gegenüber, weil er es für zu gefährlich und längerfristig der Arbeit mit ausländischen Mächten im Weg stehend hielt. Die Geschichte zeigte, dass es umgekehrt war: Der - absolut ineffektive - Kontaktversuch mit den Sowjets zerstörte die Gruppe, und erst durch diesen unglücklichen Zufall wurde ihre tatsächliche Arbeit entdeckt. (Siehe hierzu auch Anne Nelson's 2009 bei Random House herausgebenes Buch The Red Orchestra)

Ich klebe nun wirklich nicht am Begriff "Spionage", weiß aber auch nicht, wie man hier in der en wikipedia Artikel umbennen kann, das hängt bei Red Orchestra schlicht auch an der Vieldeutigkeit des Begriffes. Über Konsensus müßte es irgendwie sicher gehen, vielleicht letztlich über die Liste aller Artikel (?).

Mir kommt es andererseits bizar vor, wenn in der deutschen Wikipedia die alten DDRler durchsetzten, daß Leute wie Agnes Smedley, und allen ernstes sogar Richard Sorge nicht mehr als Spione bezeichnet werden sollten. Irgendwann macht sich Wikipedia so doch zur Witzfigur. Aber, Widerstandsbewegung gegen die Nazis war immer legitim (obwohl selbst ich Zahnschmerzen bekomme, wenn Leute wie Arthur Nebe dazu gerechnet werden sollen oder müssen), bis zu Leuten der Brigade Ehrhardt. Und wenn Spionage eine nützliche Waffe war oder wie Sie ja sagen auch nur so erschien, ist das eben nur eine Unterkategorie im Widerstandkampf. Andererseits wird die RAF hier in der en Wikipedia allen ernstes als bewaffnete Widerstandsgruppe gegen den BRD Totalitarismus verkauft. Alles natürlich nicht Ihre Schuld, mit freundlichen Grüßen,--Radh (talk) 08:29, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

P. S.: Löschen Sie mein Gelaber ruhig, das darf man wohl auf den eigenen Seiten.--Radh (talk) 08:30, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia: check out the Teahouse!

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Nomination of Castle Gnome for deletion

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Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Carola Stabe concern

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Your article submission Carola Stabe

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Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Carola Stabe concern

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Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Carola Stabe concern

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Draft:Carola Stabe concern

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Disambiguation link notification for October 11

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Draft:Carola Stabe concern

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Carola Stabe has been accepted

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August 2021

Your account has been blocked indefinitely from editing because of the following problems: the account has been used for advertising or promotion, which is contrary to the purpose of Wikipedia, and your username indicates that the account represents a business, organisation, group, or web site, which is against the username policy.

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UTRS 46415

UTRS appeal #46415 has been closed. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 23:33, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

And I will add that the username is only part of the problem: the when6is9 links, of which you added a ton, are also problematic. There is clearly a conflict of interest here, and you must read and follow the guidelines at WP:COI, particularly the bit about disclosure. Finally, you edited Stefan Roloff, heavily, and he is of course the founder of when6is9. Drmies (talk) 23:37, 6 August 2021 (UTC)