Wikigeekpower

August 2012

Hello, I'm Grayfell. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit to Qnet seemed less than neutral to me, so I removed it for now. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks, Grayfell (talk) 17:39, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Qnet, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. Do not remove well-referenced paragraphs of text and don't replace them by text copied almost verbatim from the company's website. Qnet's website is not an independent source and as such is considered unreliable. Pichpich (talk) 22:00, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi I want to state an important FACT, namely that QNET is the official direct selling partner of the Marussian F1 Virgin Racing Team, and this makes it the only direct selling company in the world to sponsor Formula One. Why dont you let me write that??

You only allow old outdated info which is furthermore extremely biased and negative, nothing after 2007!

ITs very important.

Here is the proof, on the very front of the teams homepage : http://www.marussiaf1team.com/ (Wikigeekpower (talk) 22:42, 21 August 2012 (UTC)).

Are you seriously arguing that this is the only thing you changed to the article? Come on... In any case, it's not a particularly important fact and if you want to add it, it should be given due weight. I'm not even sure it's important enough. Qnet is only one among many sponsors and if you compare, you won't find Marussia mentioned on the articles of other partners such as CNBC, Pirelli, Lagardère or UK2. As for your claim that there is no info in the article that dates after 2007, it's flat out untrue as you can see by clicking on the links in the references section. If you want third-party references from 2012, you can always add this one or that one although something tells me they're not exactly what you're hoping for. Pichpich (talk) 23:24, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi thanx for your reply. Nope I am not saying thats the only thing I changed, in fact I made many changes...but since you deleted everything and literally nullified my efforts of making the page LESS biased, I chose a different approach..

As for giving due weight, believe me, I am! QNET is "the official direct selling partner", and that is a huge accomplishment for any company, as u know F1 is the single most expensive and prestigious sport in the world, we are talking about millions and millions of dollars in sponsorship a year, not many 13 year old companies can afford that! This is a huge boost of credibility, I wanted to put a picture of Dato Vijay Eswaran (the CEO of QNET and the QI GROUP as a whole) and Sir Richard Branson (CEO of Virgin GROUP) together celebrating the launch of this partnership. Here is an image : http://www.google.co.id/imgres?q=sir+richard+branson+qnet&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1666&bih=865&tbm=isch&tbnid=ignlXIX45UEO7M:&imgrefurl=http://mybiodisc.blog.com/2011/03/16/about-amezcua-biodisc/&docid=LVWnY5QrBq4ZsM&imgurl=http://mybiodisc.blog.com/files/2011/03/qnet.jpg&w=900&h=555&ei=6mQ0UPSwF8fTrQew9IGQAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=561&vpy=167&dur=1753&hovh=176&hovw=286&tx=117&ty=77&sig=104316749712648945974&page=1&tbnh=123&tbnw=199&start=0&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:76

I have made an effort to establish a connection between QNET and the QI GROUP by linking the page to Dato Vijay Eswaran, (the CEO and founder of QNET and the whole conglomerate of which QNET is the flagship subsidiary) he has a very nice page on Wikipedia already.. Nobody made that connection so far

Also not enough is being said about RYTHM.. the way its just thrown in there is so brusque, without any context (the RYTHM is the mission of QNET, thats entirely missing).

In addition I had alot to say about the business model and the new compensation plan called QINFINITE

There are many important things I want to say.. How about this, you give me your email and I send you the FULL thing I want to upload.. so far you havent seen the full thing because I was only able to update parts before you restored it to the default version..

Would that be ok? Please let me know.(Wikigeekpower (talk) 04:52, 22 August 2012 (UTC))

Signing a big check is not an accomplishment. It's called a marketing budget and no it's not uncommon for companies that young to have a large marketing arm. The other problem is that you're trying to replace criticism of Qnet by manufacturing credibility from marketing. This by the way, is clearly what Qnet is hoping since they control a number of sites arguing that a company with such high-profile endorsements can't possibly have suspect business practices. (I think Power Balance Pavilion and Power Balance is an instructive counter-example) Now if you want to add some detail about RYTHM or QINFINITE based on third-party sources, I'm even willing to help. But bulldozing your way through this article and removing anything critical of the company is not acceptable. Pichpich (talk) 19:34, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't know why you reposted the message on my talk page but my answer is in the paragraph above. Additionally, I would like to clarify your involvement with Qnet. Are you part of their staff? One of their IRs perhaps? I suspect you have some sort of vested interest in the company and I would like to remind you of Wikipedia's guideline about conflicts of interest. Pichpich (talk) 01:58, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi sorry about reposting but u didnt address my points.

1. leadership: Any company such as Apple will spare a few words about their CEO. Dato (already having the title of a Dato is an accomplishment per se) Vijay Eswaran is a great figure, one of the biggest philanthropists in Asia, check here: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/6/prweb8602600.htm

2. Table summarizing the corporation I really want to add a table providing an overview of the corporation. All companies including Herbalife have one.

3. ALSO, there are numerous mistakes in the article. The $250 payment seems to have literally fell out of the blue with not much logic behind it I must say, no company would pay 250 dollars flat regardless of what product, some products are cheap others are expensive.. The new plan QINFINITE is very different. Let me add a new section 'QINFINITE' ok?

More about RYTHM: http://www.firstpost.com/topic/place/kazakhstan-qnet-with-rythm-foundation-on-osh-tv-kyrgyzstan-video-0kYlBOLL16c-3439-3.html

http://www.rythmfoundation.org/index.php/news-a-event/163-qnet-donates-minivan-to-osh-house-of-babies.html

As for me, I am not involved with the company , I really want to though but I cant because my parents read all the unfounded controversies on the wikipedia page , I told them that the page is very much biased and that I will seek to amend it... Thats why I am so eager! I once came across Dato Vijays 'thoughts of the day', they really inspired me so I did some more research on the guy and thats how I came to know about QNET and its RYTHM mission (Wikigeekpower (talk) 02:24, 23 August 2012 (UTC)).

for clarity, I will respond here, rather than below. Pichpich has addressed all of the points you raised with me. One of the major problems is that you are not providing any decent sources. PRWeb is not reliable, it is just a place for companies to release press releases. The RYTHM Foundation site is also very poor. It could be used, but only in addition to other, reliable, sites. If people want to know what a company has to say about itself, they can just visit that site and not Wikipedia. The firstpost.com article may possibly be acceptable, but if the sponsorship of an F1 team isn't notable (and I don't think that it is), the donation of a Minivan certainly isn't. Wikipedia is wp:not a place to promote a company.

If you add a neutral statement with a supporting third party source regarding Dato Vijay Eswaran, I would support that. The table you are referring to is known in Wikipedia as an infobox. In order to add an infobox, we need reliable sources. Grayfell (talk) 05:43, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi guys thanks for your replies. I still have some points/questions. I got threee third party articles on Dato: Here is an article from Forbes.com about Dato Vijay's book, the article cites many things about him http://www.forbes.com/2007/03/22/meditation-management-eswaran-lead-ceo-cx_pm_0322bookreview.html http://www.weforum.org/node/3759 http://www.piup.edu.my/index.php/news/item/vijay-eswaran-highlights-green-business-initiatives-at-un-environs-meet http://www.ovguide.com/dato-vijay-eswaran-9202a8c04000641f80000000073377ea#

I want to write the following: QNET was founded and continues to be under the stewardship of Dato Vijay Eswaran (link to his wikipedia page),a renowned Malaysian businessman and philantropist (link) also known for his self help books (Forbes link from above) and his speeches at the World Economic Forum (link provided).

You still didnt answer my point number 3 about the mistakes in interpreting the business model. I want to change that part completely with QINFINITE, which is the company's compensation plan. I want to explain how it works in detail, I know how it works because I studied it.. As for the sources... obviously they will come from QNET since its their plan and theirs only.. http://qinfinite.qnet.net/

(Wikigeekpower (talk) 07:26, 23 August 2012 (UTC)).

I did answer your point. There aren't enough Independent sources. There are many, many magazines and journals and newspapers that cover business issues. If these business plans are notable, you should be able to find reliable, independent sources. Otherwise, you can either wait until such sources are published, or safely assume that QINFINITE is not noteworthy enough to be mentioned.

As for the paragraph on Dato Vijay Eswaran, it is far too promotional in tone, and would be better suited in his own article anyway. Stick to facts about his connection to Qnet for now. Grayfell (talk) 07:49, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Grayfell. Also that story about you just being a young boy with Qnet dreams squashed by your parents misinformed by Wikipedia isn't credible. Grayfell and I are open to help but don't assume we're idiots. By the way when you talk about the "unfounded controversies on the wikipedia page" but they are in the article precisely because they rest on a foundation of reliable sources. Pichpich (talk) 08:26, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi I have made some significant amendments/improvements BUT I am not experienced in using wikipedia, please help me fix the layout, I have included some reliable sources that I am sure you wont be able to question this time. I hope that you find my amendments acceptable. Looking forward to your comments and to further cooperating with you guys in making this page of more value for the millions of existing + the new potential members of QNET. (Wikigeekpower (talk) 15:25, 23 August 2012 (UTC)).

Thanx for the reply and for your willingness to help.Now can we please fix the inaccuracy I flagged? I quote the entire paragraph for your convenience and highlight the part which is senseless without any volume parameters (as I explained below already):

The compensation plan operates by the recruitment of customers by existing Independent Representatives (IR). An IR is provided with an ID that gives access to a 'Tracking Centre' (TC) in its computer system through which the IR's sales are tracked. A TC has a left and right customer group. Every customer owns a TC which is then placed on the left or right customer side of the IR's TC. A 'direct' transaction (a customer's personal reference or sale) is counted as one transaction. An 'indirect transaction (someone in the cusomer's TC buys/refers/sells) is also counted as 1 transaction. the company pays $250 each time 3 product sales on an IR's left customer group are matched by 3 product sales on the right.[13][unreliable source?]

The source is not there, I checked. Moreover the company is not even in that "Black list" , which makes me wonder, how was that statement approved in first place. Please consider my changes below in the 'compensation model' part. Thanx (Wikigeekpower (talk) 10:09, 23 August 2012 (UTC)).

Here is what I have on the compensation plan so far:

The company’s business proposition to its independent representatives can best be described as the network building of a "franchise with royalties". In order to operate the business, a one time (for life) product purchase is required which serves as the license for having the right to build a volume channel for the company.

A member kicks off his franchise network by interconnecting himself with a minimum of two partners, which in turn are motivated to kick off their networks in the same fashion. Unlike other direct selling companies, QNET doesn’t require its members to commit themselves financially in the form of regular monthly product purchases and places no volume or earning target requirements as a prerequisite for continuing to earn.

Furthermore, instead of paying out commissions through a series of multiple levels as is common practice in this industry, QNET chooses to pay out a flat commission "royalty" to all members that meet the necessary volume and volume distribution requirements, irrespective of the size of a member’s organization. Starting from April 2012, the company has revamped its compensation Plan with the launch of QINFINITE.

HOW QINFINITE WORKS In most parts of the world the company is promoting QINFINITE with a 1,000 dollar product purchase that entitles the member to three tracking (earning) centers each with a cap of 10,000 dollars/week. With this structure in place, the focus is on building an alliance of four partners and supporting them in duplicating this. For every four transaction on the left and right (carrying the 1,000 dollar volume weight), the company pays a flat 900 USD. With this structure known as the ‘power of 4’, it takes a total of 260 people to break thru the 30,000 weekly limit. Any additional earnings are plowed back into the company’s profits so members that ‘max out’ are encouraged to open additional earning centers, which in turn require further product purchases.

As for the HISTORY section, I also find it a bit "wanting".. Here is some more flesh/substance:

The company was founded in 1998 in Hong Kong under the name GoldQuest international by Dato Vijay Eswaran, a world renowned philanthropist and public speaker, currently serving as the Chairman and CEO of the QI Group.

At the time, it was the first direct selling company in Asia to market gold and silver numismatic coins. Following the sharp volatility of precious metal prices however the company expanded its product portfolio into other fields and eventually discontinued numismatic coins from its marketing mix. In 2003, the company re-branded to QuestNet. In 2010, the name of the company was shortened to QNet.[9][10]

During its 13 year old history, QNET has evolved and grown into a leading direct selling company in Asia. Its growth in the early stages was rigged with controversies and scandals that tarnished its image and that of the direct selling industry in South East Asia for many years to come. In particular, the company was accused of operating as a pyramid scheme as well as a Ponzi scheme when it operated under the name of Gold Quest International Some of the most serious controversies are listed below: (controversies section)

As for the intro, please confirm that you approve this now: QNET was founded and continues to be under the stewardship of Dato Vijay Eswaran (link to his wikipedia page),a renowned Malaysian businessman and philantropist (link) also known for his self help books (Forbes link from above) and his speeches at the World Economic Forum (link provided).

(Wikigeekpower (talk) 08:18, 23 August 2012 (UTC)).

QNET page lacking important accomplishments

Hi Grayfell, thanx for your reply.

QNET is a lifestyle choice for 8 milllion people around the world and there are many important things missing on the page that they would want to see

How about this, you give me your email and I send you the FULL thing I want to upload.. so far you havent seen the full thing because I was only able to update parts before you restored it to the default version..

The current version of the QNET page doesnt say anything about the company's distinguished leadership, latest achievements, changes in compensation plan, and so on. Here are some things that I feel need to be stressed:

In addition to sponsoring the Asian Football Championship, the Brazilian national team, QNET is now "the official direct selling partner of the Marussia F1 Virgin Racing Team", and that is a huge accomplishment for any company in any industry, as u know F1 is the single most expensive and prestigious sport in the world, we are talking about millions and millions of dollars in sponsorship a year, not many 13 year old companies can afford that!

This is a huge boost of credibility for the company, I wanted to put a picture of Dato Vijay Eswaran (the CEO of QNET and the QI GROUP as a whole) and Sir Richard Branson (CEO of Virgin GROUP) together celebrating the launch of this partnership. This made headlines on CNBC, Eurosport and many other news stations.

As you can see I am just stating facts here!

I have made an effort to establish a connection between QNET and the QI GROUP by linking the page to Dato Vijay Eswaran, (the CEO and founder of QNET and the whole conglomerate of which QNET is the flagship subsidiary) he has a very nice page on Wikipedia already.. Nobody made that connection so far

Also not enough is being said about RYTHM.. the way its just thrown in there is so brusque, without any context (the RYTHM is the mission of QNET, thats entirely missing).

In addition I had alot to say about the business model and the new compensation plan called QINFINITE.

There are many important things I want to say.. How about this, you give me your email and I send you the FULL thing I want to upload.. so far you havent seen the full thing because I was only able to update parts before you restored it to the default version..

Would that be ok? Please let me know.(Wikigeekpower (talk) (Wikigeekpower (talk) 09:00, 22 August 2012 (UTC))

In addition, I want to add a table outlining in brief the corporate profile. I noticed all other companies including Herbalife have this table on Wikipedia.

Conflict of interest

Hello, Wikigeekpower. We welcome your contributions to Wikipedia, but if you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about in the article Qnet, you may need to consider our guidance on conflicts of interest.

All editors are required to comply with Wikipedia's neutral point of view content policy. People who are very close to a subject often have a distorted view of it, which may cause them to inadvertently edit in ways that make the article either too flattering or too disparaging. People with a close connection to a subject are not absolutely prohibited from editing about that subject, but they need to be especially careful about ensuring their edits are verified by reliable sources and writing with as little bias as possible.

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Please familiarize yourself with relevant content policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. Thank you. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:21, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Orange Mike, Thanx for your input. I have read the guidelines and have made my best to adhere to them. I have been working diligently to amend and enhance the quality of the page as now it is far from being a neutral reflection of the company and the business opportunity it constitutes. There are literally millions of QNET members around the world and without exaggerating, this article is an offense to most of them. When I told my parents I want to join QNET the first thing they did was do a background check, and for most people, that means wikipedia! All I will say is that it toook me a great deal of energy to convince them that this company is a well established corporation by now, that it has reputable leadership (Dato Vijay Eswaran is a DATO in first place) and that the company is the sponsor of the most prestigious sport events. None of this &good stuff& transpires from the current article.

That being said, please help me fix this page, I submitted new content pertaining to the business model and corrected some mistakes(please read above), I was hoping that I had received sufficient backing to make some important changes from the numerous exchanges I had with two other Wikipedians till now.

You see, you are saying that I am biased.. I can easily counterclaim by saying that whoever wrote the article was biased and inaccurate. The history section has little substance, there is no talk of the management/leadership, the business model part is flawed, the $250 dollar figure quoted seems to have come out of the blue and guess what, its senseless in the absence of background info.

All the author is trying to say is that QNET is a pyramid scheme, so beware! This is nonsense, the company has double the number of IRs than Herbalife for one thing and as pyramid schemes are unsustainable, QNET was long supposed to be dead by now, but guess what, its one of the very few survivors who made it past the 10 year mark.

Furthermore, the references on the current side that I opened are non existent, inactive links or similar..

THE VERSION THAT I UPLOADED contained high quality references such as FORBES.COM, which is probably the most reliable and authoritative source of the whole article if we really want to be picky

If nobody can challenge the validity of what I am saying and undermine its soundness with something tangible, I will revert it to the previous version. Thanx for your understanding. (Wikigeekpower (talk) 21:33, 23 August 2012 (UTC)).

Wikigeekpower, you are invited to the Teahouse

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