Wikisjt3
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editHello, Wikisjt3, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:
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Your submission at Articles for creation: User:Wikisjt3/sandbox (June 6)
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Please read the comments left by the reviewer on your submission. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.
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Your submission at Articles for creation: Draft:A Mighty Fortress of Faith (June 17)
edit Please read the comments left by the reviewer on your submission. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.
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Hello! Wikisjt3,
I noticed your article was declined at Articles for Creation, and that can be disappointing. If you are wondering or curious about why your article submission was declined please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there!
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Your changes to Template:Infobox book/doc
editI have reverted your changes to Template:Infobox book/doc. Templates are generally used to provide customizable content on article pages. This customization is done by placing a blank copy of the template on the article page and then modifying the parameters passed to the template. It should not be done by modifying the template, or the template documentation. While this is not always the case, I would recommend that you assume that templates and template documentation should not be modified until you have considerably more experience with Wikipedia. While there is no hard and fast rule about that, one possible gauge would be to see when you get a feel for "I can't do this without a modification to the template" vs. I can place a template here with these parameters to have effect X.
I assumed that the changes you made to Template:Infobox book/doc were actually intended to be to cause the infobox to appear on Draft:A Mighty Fortress of Faith. Based on that assumption, I have placed a template with the edits you made on the page. I have removed the values for parameters which you did not modify and removed the extra italics which were part of the example on the Template:Infobox book/doc page, but were not intended for actual use. While I was there, I wiki-fied the references on the draft page. Note that this is not actually a complete correction of the references, but merely moving the references to be in-line citations. — Makyen (talk) 18:01, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Draft:A Mighty Fortress of Faith (June 24)
edit Please read the comments left by the reviewer on your submission. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.
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Talkback
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Message added 19:50, 25 June 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Talkback
edit Message added 14:54, 14 July 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Your submission at Articles for creation: Draft:A Mighty Fortress of Faith (July 27)
edit There is no evidence for the importance of this book. To show its notability under WP:BOOK, there will need to be multiple substantial 3rd party published reviews or discussions of the book. Unless you have them, please do not resubmit the article --it will serve no purpose,. because it will not be appropriate for Wikipedia.
* If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page.
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comments
editRecent comments deleted per your suggestion. You asked for additional comments:
1)there is no evidence that it has ever been noticed or reviewed or discussed in any published source, or reviewed in any magazine or newspaper. This is our basic criterion, for books or anything else in Wikipedia.
2) The book is privately printed, not published by any of the major trade or religious publishers
3) The author has published nothing else.
3)It is merely the history of a single parish of no obvious interest anywhere else
4)WorldCat shows it only in libraries in the immediate vicinity: [1] I see Mt St Mary's University, U. Alabama, Auburn Univ, Samford Univ., and Spring Hill College--all in Alabama, where the church is.
6)It is not in the Loyola University library Catalog [2] , Notre Dame Library [3], Loras College [4], or Georgetown [5]. My guess is that the reason you are saying it is in those libraries is that a copy was sent to them: That does not mean they added it. (Not even if they thanked you for the gift: that's just normal politeness.) All major libraries receive thousands of books from the people who write them, but only add them to their collection if they are thought relevant. They courteously accept everything, but that doesn't mean they keep it. Normally, a library will add local history of the immediate area, regardless of its importance, but rarely the minor publications of the local history of anywhere else, except sometimes major cities or areas of special interest to their programs. That's exactly what seems to be the case here.
7)That the papal library sent back a nice appreciation when it was sent to them means nothing. That's the courtesy I would expect from one churchman to another.
Thus it meets none of the standards for the general notability guideline, WP:GNG; or for books, NBOOK. The rule for accepting Drafts is that the article would have a reasonable chance in mainspace. On the basis of my many years of experience here, it has no chance at all--it would very quickly be deleted. That you want the article in WP to spread information about the book is what we call "advertising" or "promotion" We never do it. DGG ( talk ) 15:54, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Comments on comments
editDear Dr. Goodman,
I am both surprised and pleased to receive your recent comments.
After receiving your rejection of our article, I appealed to “The Teahouse” source outside of Wikipedia for guidance and suggestions on how best to proceed. I did not want to bother you further and disrupt your important Wikipedia work.
It is not my intention here to push the issue of a Wikipedia acceptance. You have made the stance perfectly clear and I appreciate your professional opinions.
Since you have taken the time to again respond, I offer the following for additional clarifications regarding the history book in question: “A Mighty Fortress of Faith - A History of St. Mary of the Visitation Church 1861-2011”
The book is available in our public library and the University of Alabama in Huntsville, and is available for sale at “Marie’s Hallmark Cards” in Five Points in Huntsville, Alabama (yes, an advertisment, how better to publicize it to attain notability?)
It’s a bit unfortunate the title may indicate the full subject of the book is about a Catholic parish in Alabama, it is not.
Widely acclaimed as a substantive source of local history, by local historians, it provides accounts of members of the Wernher Von Braun moon-landing team as well as U.S. Civil War accounts from the perspective of a southern city. In fact, the forward was written, and major history research done, by a retired NASA scientist living in Huntsville.
The account, based on his personal war-time diary, of a U.S. WW2, prisoner of war in Germany is worth the price of the book alone.
As Notre Dame Senior Archivist and Curator of Manuscripts stated in a letter (The letter is on file in the Madison County Huntsville Public Library) stated, “This book is much more substantial than the average parish history – much more interesting. It presents the story of human individuals, and not only the bare bones of history, or at best information on pastors or nuns. Lay people are an important part of any parish history, and you included them in an engaging way.”
Regarding your most recent comments -
1)there is no evidence that it has ever been noticed or reviewed or discussed in any published source, or reviewed in any magazine or newspaper. This is our basic criterion, for books or anything else in Wikipedia.
TRUE, Currently the book has only been commented on locally.
2) The book is privately printed, not published by any of the major trade or religious publishers
TRUE
3) The author has published nothing else.
TRUE
3)It is merely the history of a single parish of no obvious interest anywhere else
NOT NECESSARILY TRUE
The book is acclaimed as a substantive source of local history, by local historians, it provides accounts of members of the Wernher Von Braun moon-landing team as well as U.S. Civil War accounts from the perspective of a southern city. In fact, the forward was written, and major history research done, by a retired NASA scientist living in Huntsville.
An account, based on the personal war-time diary, of a U.S. WW2, prisoner of war in Germany is worth the price of the book alone.
As Notre Dame Senior Archivist and Curator of Manuscripts stated in a letter (on file in the Madison County Huntsville Public Library) stated, “This book is much more substantial than the average parish history – much more interesting. It presents the story of human individuals, and not only the bare bones of history, or at best information on pastors or nuns. Lay people are an important part of any parish history, and you included them in an engaging way.” . 4)WorldCat shows it only in libraries in the immediate vicinity: [1] I see Mt St Mary's University, U. Alabama, Auburn Univ, Samford Univ., and Spring Hill College--all in Alabama, where the church is.
KINDLY SEE OUR RESPONSE IN YOUR NUMBER 6 BELOW.
6)It is not in the Loyola University library Catalog [2] , Notre Dame Library [3], Loras College [4], or Georgetown [5]. My guess is that the reason you are saying it is in those libraries is that a copy was sent to them: That does not mean they added it. (Not even if they thanked you for the gift: that's just normal politeness.) All major libraries receive thousands of books from the people who write them, but only add them to their collection if they are thought relevant. They courteously accept everything, but that doesn't mean they keep it. Normally, a library will add local history of the immediate area, regardless of its importance, but rarely the minor publications of the local history of anywhere else, except sometimes major cities or areas of special interest to their programs. That's exactly what seems to be the case here.
WE RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH THE ASSUMPTIONS HERE.
Each institution we referenced was contacted for acceptance into their archives PRIOR to shipment. In fact, some institutions, who did not understand the importance of this work, refused acceptance, so were not provided a copy. Upon request, we can, provide the names of all the archivists contacted and accepting the book.
7)That the papal library sent back a nice appreciation when it was sent to them means nothing. That's the courtesy I would expect from one churchman to another.
WE RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THIS POINT.
In fact through the efforts of our local bishop a copy of the book along with a letter written in German was provided to Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI (we felt a letter in his native language would be appealing to him). We were extremely surprised and elated to receive a personal letter of thanks from the pope; a rarity according to our bishop.
A separate book was supplied to the Vatican Library (Bibliotheca Apostolica Vaticana) and we are awaiting a notice of acceptance.
Thus it meets none of the standards for the general notability guideline, WP:GNG; or for books, NBOOK. The rule for accepting Drafts is that the article would have a reasonable chance in mainspace. On the basis of my many years of experience here, it has no chance at all--it would very quickly be deleted. That you want the article in WP to spread information about the book is what we call "advertising" or "promotion" We never do it. DGG ( talk ) 15:54, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
ACTUALLY BECAUSE WE FEEL THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE BOOK SO IMPORTANT WE DESIRE TO MAKE REFERENCE FOR THE USE OF HISTORIANS AND INTERESTED PARTIES.
Again thank you for your comments, and as you may tell, we will persist until the book has wider acclaim to hopefully meet the notability standards required by Wikipedia.
Best regards Wikisjt3 (talk) 19:11, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
speedy deletion
editI regret it, but it seems necessary for me to recommend deletion of the draft as unambiguous advertising. I have the power to delete it myself, but I normally prefer that another administrator agree. DGG ( talk ) 00:27, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
"Further reading"
editHallo Wikisjt3: I've seen some discussion on various talk pages about this. (@DGG:, @Cullen328: - just to run this past your eyes too.)
The church already has an article, at St. Mary of the Visitation Catholic Church (Huntsville, Alabama), as it's on the NRHP. (It's unfortunate that the book title doesn't identify which "St Mary of the Visitation" church it's about, but I traced it with a bit of detective work: Alabama was mentioned somewhere, there's a helpful disambiguation page at St. Mary's Church, there's only one listed in Alabama, and the church website confirms this book as being about this church.)
I've added this book as "Further reading" (sourced from the Worldcat record), which I think seems appropriate even though the book does not see WP:NOTABLE enough to have its own article. Anyone wanting to learn more about the church now knows this book exists, and can link the isbn to trace the catalog record in Worldcat and perhaps elsewhere.
It may be that there is some more information which could usefully be added to the article about the church, sourced to the book (as far as I know the book would qualify as a "Reliable source"). The article at present is entirely about the architecture of the building, not the history of the church as an organisation. In adding anything, remember to write in your own words and not copy the text of the book, which would be a breach of copyright. And please remember not to overwhelm readers with too much detail: less can be more if it lets the most important aspects shine out. PamD 09:28, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
- I apologixze for not seeing this possibility myself. DGG ( talk ) 21:54, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Pinging, and that photo
editHallo, Thanks for your reply on my talk page. To draw someone else's attention, you need to type for example {{ping|PamD}} - ie you're using a "template" called "ping", with the "parameter" "PamD". It produces the results @PamD:, and will then notify the editor concerned, through the "notifications" system. If you just type "@PamD", it doesn't have the same effect. Don't worry, I've done it for you now on my talkpage. There's a lot to learn about editing Wikipedia, but it's an interesting journey. Please stay with us, edit that article about your church, and edit other articles on topics of interest to you to improve this extraordinary encyclopedia.
It's interesting that you say the photo of the church is your work: it was uploaded by @Spyder Monkey:, who claimed it as his own work. Either it's not your photo and he took one at the same time, or he's lying and breaching your copyright (perhaps out of laziness as it's much quicker to cut a corner than to do it right), or he just didn't understand the questions when he was uploading it and has ended up claiming ownership of it by accident. You might like to have a word with him: Wikipedia is very hot on copyright issues, and if it really is your photo and not his then it needs to be deleted, and perhaps reloaded by yourself. PamD 06:47, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
Headings and talk pages
editHallo, and thanks for your message on my talk page. Please try and learn how to format replies on talk pages: either you're creating a new section, in which case you need to type a heading with "==" both before and after it (like "==Headings and talk pages=="), or use the "Subject/headline" box which appears if you've clicked on "Add" (or "New section") at the top; or, to reply within a "thread", indenting each paragraph with an appropriate number of colons (::: for 3 levels of indentation). Your current technique of starting off with === creates odd section titles of "=" which make a mess of tables of contents etc.
Glad to hear you're finding Wikipedia interesting and might carry on editing. Rather than start a new article, you could add something from the contents of those 460 pages to the article about the church, or if appropriate to the article about the town or county, perhaps. Then pick some other topic of interest which isn't yet covered, and enjoy editing. PamD 22:30, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Father Jeremiah F. Trecy (August 29)
edit - If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Father Jeremiah F. Trecy and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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- Hallo again: I noticed this draft: it looks to me as if you would do better to include some information about Father Trecy in the article about the church, and then provide a couple of "redirects" from Jeremiah Trecy and Jeremiah F. Trecy to point to the church article. It doesn't loook as if he's going to be "notable" enough for a free-standing article, if the only published source about him is just the one book about the church, but he clearly played a major part in the church's history and is worth a section in its article. PamD 09:10, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
Draft:Father Jeremiah F. Trecy concern
editHi there, I'm HasteurBot. I just wanted to let you know that Draft:Father Jeremiah F. Trecy, a page you created, has not been edited in 6 months. The Articles for Creation space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for articlespace.
If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it.
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Thank you for your attention. HasteurBot (talk) 01:33, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:Father Jeremiah F. Trecy
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Hello, Wikisjt3. It has been over six months since you last edited your WP:AFC draft article submission, entitled "Father Jeremiah F. Trecy".
The page will shortly be deleted. If you plan on editing the page to address the issues raised when it was declined and resubmit it, simply and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code. Please note that Articles for Creation is not for indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace.
If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you want to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by one of two methods (don't do both): 1) follow the instructions at WP:REFUND/G13, or 2) copy this code: {{subst:Refund/G13|Draft:Father Jeremiah F. Trecy}}, paste it in the edit box at this link, and click "Save page". An administrator will in most cases undelete the submission.
Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. HasteurBot (talk) 20:02, 31 March 2015 (UTC)