Znuddel
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November 2021
Thank you for your contributions. It seems that you may have added public domain content to one or more Wikipedia articles, such as Norwegian Home Guard. You are welcome to import appropriate public domain content to articles, but in order to meet the Wikipedia guideline on plagiarism, such content must be fully attributed. This requires not only acknowledging the source, but acknowledging that the source is copied. There are several methods to do this described at Wikipedia:Plagiarism#Public-domain sources, including the usage of an attribution template. Please make sure that any public domain content you have already imported is fully attributed. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 15:31, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Controversies in soldiers' articles
When there are controversies about any soldier's article, and there are only a handful of editors dealing with the talk page - then which larger Wikipedia-forum do you feel will be appropriate to ask (given reasonable time), for additional "eyes" on the subject? (I admire your restraint so far, in not yet having removed material that you do not agree with. You have gone about things slowly, which is advisable. First by putting tags in place, which show that at least one wikipedia user disagrees with the article.) 89.8.123.69 (talk) 12:18, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
- Being the operations officer for a wrongful arrest and abduction - is that relevant for Talk:War crimes in Afghanistan? 89.8.123.69 (talk) 12:27, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
- Not sure which Wiki-forum would be the best option, thoug please advise me. I presume you are Norwegian based on your IP adress, so you can see my conserns that I left on the talk pages for the IP adresses who contributed to the War cross section. Znuddel (talk) 12:31, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
- I will be taking a look at your talk page from time to time, to see if I get any ideas of how to improve the article. Frankly, I don't think there is much more to say in the article about what already has been mentioned. However, one topic that the article does not tell about - are the many cases which have hit the Armed Forces, on Kristoffersen's watch - and the cases only have to do with Kristoffersen since he is chief of the armed forces. About those cases, I don't think that you will find many sources which say that he has been quick to take action on those (except for the commenting on the dozens of Kings Guardsmen who were fired). 89.8.123.69 (talk) 12:55, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
The boss of Kristoffersen at the time (Gråtrud), had the responsibility for the 17 September 2007 operation to arrest Qari Nejat. (Kristoffersen was "only" the operations officer.)
- When a slight development comes in the case, then I will suggest the words for the article, the "17 September 2007 operation to arrest Qari Nejat", that you can start.
- There are advantages to having a spinoff article (which are inline with your recent views of the Kristoffersen-article).
- War crimes: I have not seen sources of anyone in Norway calling this wrong-arrest, a possible a war crime. (I just don't see that happening - not in Afghanistan, not in Norway.) 89.8.15.24 (talk) 10:30, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
"17 September 2007 operation attempting to arrest Qari Nejat"
Check out if you want to start the following article (and then I suggest that you wait for someone else's edit, and then you can smack up "your" tags about neutrality etc.)
17 September 2007 operation attempting to arrest Qari Nejat
On 30 October 2022, Norwegian media said that the narrative of Eirik Kristoffersen regarding the one operation (of two) for which he received the War Cross with Sword - is wrong; a September 2007 operation (in Tagab Valley) of which Kristoffersen was its operations officer,[1] did not capture a Taliban leader; the intended goal of the operation was Qari Nejat (a Taliban leader) but instead the wrong man was arrested.[2] The Norwegian Foreign Service including its embassy in Kabul,[3] knew that the wrong man was arrested, and so did Norwegian Intelligence Service; Kristoffersen says that he was never informed that the wrong man was arrested.[2]
The leader of the committee that gave War Cross with Sword - to Kristoffersen, said that we[2] would never have given the medal if we had known that the wrong man was arrested. Previously, in a September 2022 interview, Kristoffersen said that after having read a Dagbladet article in 2009 - by Anders Sømme Hammer - that told about the 17 September 2007 arrest - in Tagab Valley, of Mohammed Naseem - Kristoffersen's conclusion was that "we still had arrested a person that two independent sources and intelligence, indicated was a Taliban leader in the valley".[2]
An editorial in Klassekampen in October 2022, says that Kristoffersen's story is turned on its head, because it was a bricklayer who was mistakenly arrested - not a Taliban leader; furthermore, the wrong story contributed to Kristoffersen being conferred the War Cross with Sword, and that contributed to his [quick or] "lightning-career" to the top; furthermore, his story was highlighted by the government-instigated Godal-commission which in 2016 evaluated Norway's military effort in Afghanistan - therefore the information in this affair is more than just a [blemish or] scratch on Kristoffersen's resumé - it's also a problem for the official story about Norway's effort in Afghanistan.[3]
Other reactions include the leader of Norwegian Officers' and Specialists' Union saying that there should be openness[4] about the justification, when someone is given a war medal.
Reactions from members of Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence: In November, Ingrid Fiskaa said that it is quite odd and disturbing that central[5] information about arresting the wrong person, does not reach the forces who performed the operation - and the Norwegian Armed Forces in general. Bjørnar Moxnes said that for 15 years, Norwegian authorities have celebrated this operation as a great victory, while our closest allies all along have known that this was a whopping failure in which considerable military resources were used to imprison an impoverished Afghan; furthermore, Norway's official Afghanistan-investigation made a success-story out of the operation in which Norwegian special forces with American support, exploded their way into a house with women and children and abducted an Afghani bricklayer in the belief that he was a Taliban leader.[5] MPs have demanded that the armed forces and the defense ministry, get to the bottom of what went wrong - and why the mistake did not get known.[6]
An editorial in Klassekampen in November 2022, said that American soldiers knew within hours of the operation, that the wrong person had been arrested; furthermore, information about that was swiftly shared with Norwegian forces and Norway's embassy; furthermore, there were more details about the operation: plastic handcuffs were used on all the people living in the house from which the bricklayer was removed.[7] Furthermore, VG (newspaper) leaned heavily[7] on to classified information from Afghan War Diary, published by WikiLeaks, to unravel the events and the timelines of the military operation.
Later in November, an article by Kristoffersen was printed by various media; furthermore, Kristoffersen said that he has never read the justification for his War Cross with Sword; furthermore, Kristoffersen gave his view of the military operation: "The American special forces that were with us, were a small detachment that were given permission at the last moment to be with us on this operation, to gain firsthand experience with a large and complex operation" by special forces; furthermore, the American forces "were not with us, for my personal safety"; furthermore, he said that our soldiers were there for almost 20 years and now the Taliban rule, therefore it is likely that everyone that our special forces contributed to having imprisoned, has been released.[8] Furthermore he said about the prisoner: "I don't know why he later moved or why he finally was killed".[8]
Mohammed Naseem was killed in 2010; in 2011 Norwegian media reported his death and that "therefore the lawsuit" would not materialize; later in 2011 Kristoffersen got War Cross with Sword.[2]
On 10 November 2022, media said that oberstløytnant Harald Høiback said that the affair presents two problems which encompass the affair but also go beyond: the Armed Forces has a problem with half-truths; and the special forces have a secrecy which results in not being looked over the shoulder; furthermore he added that a person who gets a medal, is not the one who has to defend that the medal was given to him: Johan Brun and Per Sverre Opedal, the leaders of "the medal council", are the ones who have to justify Kristoffersen's medal.[9]
(Attribution: This version is largely from the current version of wiki-article "Eirik Kristoffersen".) 89.8.71.200 (talk) 01:05, 11 November 2022 (UTC)/ 89.8.71.200 (talk) 01:28, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
Reflist and Notes
- ^ Rolf J. Widerøe et al. https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/WRjkr2/fikk-ikke-tilbakemelding-om-at-vi-hadde-tatt-feil-kar [– We did not get feedback about having captured the wrong man]. Vg.no. Retrieved 2022-10-31
- ^ a b c d e Helte-historien [The hero-story. VG.no. Retrieved 2022-10-30
- ^ a b Simen Tallaksen. Heltehistorien [the hero-story]. Klassekampen.no. Retrieved 31 October 2022
- ^ https://klassekampen.no/utgave/2022-11-01/vil-ha-apenhet-om-medaljer. Klassekampen.no. Retrieved 2022-11-01
- ^ a b https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/4oBm79/veldig-merkelig-og-urovekkende. VG.no. Retrieved 2022-11-01
- ^ https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/pQPOJ6/professor-fikk-krigskorset-for-sin-ledelse-av-operasjoner. Vg.no. Retrieved 2022-11-05
- ^ a b Mari Skurdal. https://klassekampen.no/utgave/2022-11-03/leder [Exposés]. Klassekampen. Retrieved 2022-11-03
- ^ a b https://www.vg.no/nyheter/meninger/i/Q7MvPQ/afghanistan-fremstilles-forenklet-og-unyansert-over-femten-aar-etter. Vg.no. Retrieved 2022-11-08
- ^ https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/abldOd/spesialstyrkene-skriver-sin-egen-karakterbok. Vg.no. Retrieved 2022-11-11
{{Authority control}} [[Category:Afghanistan]]
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