Zzita

Thanks for the help with this - it has now been moved successfully. If anyone has any suggestions for how to improve the formatting by reducing the gap of white space next to the photo that would be great. Also open to any other suggestions for improvement as this is my first article. Thanks Zzita (talk) 02:03, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Welcome!

First of all, an easy part of your request to answer: how to put this out as an article if and when you decide it is ready. You need to click the "Move" link at the top of the page. (If you can't see the link, then point your mouse at the little downward-pointing triangle at the right hand end of the row of links.) In the page that comes up, next to "To new title:" change "User" to "(Article)", and replace "Zzita/sandbox" with the title you want to give the article. (The title should probably be "Elwyn Richardson". Don't include the middle name unless there is a particular reason for doing so, such as that he is normally referred to by his full name.) Type a suitable brief explanation of what you are doing in the box "Reason:" (something like "moving completed draft to article" would be enough). Click on "Move page", and that's it.

You have clearly put quite a bit of work into writing the draft article, and in most respects it looks pretty good. One thing I notice, though, is that at places there are bits which read as perhaps rather promotional and peacock-worded. For example, we are told right at the beginning that he is "is an innovative New Zealand educator". Maybe he is innovative, but I would prefer "Elwyn Stuart Richardson is a New Zealand educator", followed later with a neutrally-worded and sourced indication of the fact that he is innovative. Likewise, "Richardson is an important figure..." Who says so? To simply assert it as a fact without attribution gives the impression of writing to promote his reputation. Another thing I notice is that large parts of the article are unsourced. We don't need a separate reference for every sentence, but when no source is cited for a substantial section of the text, you may find that that text gets questioned. As for the quality of sources that are given, I am unable to assess most of them, as they are not online, but the one that is online merely confirms that his book "In the Early World" exists: it does not confirm the statement to which it is attached as a reference (namely that Richardson is "best known" for that book). I am not denying that he is best known for the book, but merely saying that there is no source cited to indicate that he is. That he is well known for the book needs to be supported by independent sources. The one other comment I would like to make is that many Wikipedians do not regard it as suitable for an article such as this one to contain a long list of everything the person has published, and if you do publish this as an article then it is quite likely that that section may be removed.

I will leave this request for help open for now, in case anyone else has anything to add. I wish you well with the article. JamesBWatson (talk) 10:00, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi James - thanks so much for your helpful comments. I'm glad I am working in the sandbox! I agree about the "he is important because" sounding a little naff. I included this because I was looking at featured articles and trying to work out the way biographies are positioned and this was a verbatim example I found. Also take your points on board regarding "innovative". Is it ok to reference back to a thesis that I wrote myself? I tried to avoid doing this as I didn't want to self-promote or self-reference in any form, but I can see that there are passages that need more substantiation. Perhaps I can find some of this in his books (which because they are largely self published and hand printed will be hard to verify externally also). He is a dying breed?! He was basically blogging before his time, and because computers weren't available he set up his own printing press. So there is a little bit of a challenge here!?

Also no one except me has written anything much on him yet (to cite from/reference) - despite his significance in NZ education, because he is generally cantankerous and rather difficult to interview/correspond with. He is now 86 and has dementia. Anyway - thanks again for your helpful suggestions. I'll change the draft where I can and keep it in the sandbox for now and look forward to your thoughts (and/or others') on the referencing to a thesis question. Zzita (talk) 18:11, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Zzita. I'll just weigh in here concerning self-citing if I may. You might be interesting in reading the paragraph at WP:SELFCITE which reflects the general consensus on citing oneself in an article. Essentially, if the thesis meets the general requirements for reliability, then it should be fine. If a thesis has been accepted by a well-known university it is generally considered reliable. For more info, see the section WP:SCHOLARSHIP, specifically the paragraph about dissertations and theses. Additionally, since you say that nobody except you has written much on him yet, you might want to consider the information at WP:TOOSOON. —JmaJeremy^TALK_CONTRIBS 20:41, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Jeremy, thanks for your comments also- that was useful information to know and I have had a look at the selfcite, scholarship and toosoon links and referenced the unsubstantiated bits to my thesis - which is from a well known NZ university and has also been endorsed nationally, so hopefully that part is ok now.

I've also cut back the list of publication info I've included but this might still be too long? I've made the other changes suggested by James regarding the parts that sounded promotional. I still can't see the link for how to upload this article - i did a bit of searching and it seems that perhaps I need to have had the account for a certain period of time, or to have made a certain number of edits before I can put this up as an article and see the "Move" link that James was referring to.

I am still wondering if I can upload pictures to the page after it has been published. Thanks again for all the help. Zzita (talk) 10:59, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

You can upload images at any time, but be mindful of the origin and copyright status of each image - some types of images aren't really suitable for use on Wikipedia, and the rules are stricter where living persons are involved. See Wikipedia:Uploading images. UltraExactZZ ^Said ~ Did 20:54, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

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Welcome to Wikipedia: check out the Teahouse!

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Paul Eyles

I spotted your talk page comment. If you want to donate copyrighted material it needs to come through very specific channels, so you need to read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials and then decide if you want to move forward with this. If you do decide to move forward with it I recommend speaking with Moonriddengirl, she's an expert at copyright as it relates to Wikipedia. For now, the article's been tagged as a copyright violation and will remain tagged until we either have confirmation that you have donated the material through the aforementioned specific channels or we determine that you have abandoned that prospect, in which case the article will most likely be deleted. Meanwhile, I am obliged to leave the following message for you to read. TomStar81 (Talk) 14:08, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Copyright problem: Paul Eyles

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