Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 10

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Political articles in need of help

Kate Carnell and Ralph Willis could really do with some attention. They've both had pretty cruddy articles for quite some months now, and they're both deserving of better than this. Ambi 07:08, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Another possible template

xx

Try National Library of Australia picture catalogue], though you may have to seek permission, which you can do here].--Cyberjunkie 05:23, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

• I think that these new templates should have the Australian, or state flag, like Template:Australia--nixie 05:37, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Templates

These templates have now been installed at all the relevant articles. Someone else can do the other states' premiers. Adam 01:52, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Very useful templates. The name arrangement on the G-G and Vic Premier templates sits a little awkward though.--Cyberjunkie 14:27, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

I've made this one, and am working on adding it to the relevent articles:

--ScottDavis 13:07, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Added this one. --bainer 14:13, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

And also this one. --bainer 01:04, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

And another one. --bainer 01:44, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

And finally this one, to round out the original states. --bainer 02:05, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

For fairness I added these too, although these guys look awfully lonely. --bainer 02:18, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Wasn't Dr Goff Letts the first CM of the NT? Adam 06:31, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't think so. He led the government from 1974 to 1977, but this was before self-government in 1978. To my knowledge, he had some other title (just as his Treasurer was known as the Executive Member for Finance). Ambi 07:28, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Letts was the "Majority Leader" of the NT. I studied NT politics at Northern Territory University & had Letts as a guest lecturer. He certainly considered himself the equivalent of a Chief Minister. --Roisterer 02:46, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

May as well put it in there, then (and the corresponding CM article) - but it'd be nice to asterisk it or something. Ambi 05:58, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Why "John Downer"? Adam 13:27, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Fixed - I copied the links from Premiers of South Australia, and must have missed one edit - thanks. --ScottDavis 14:20, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Now for the succession boxes (and the articles of course). Alphax ^τεχ 13:56, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

New Zealand manages to combine the two in Template:New Zealand prime ministers which looks very neat. I don't know if they can handle people holding office twice though. --ScottDavis 00:23, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

It does look neat, but as someone recently said on the mailing list, the advantage of the succession box is that it can handle pretty much any sort of line of succession anywhere - from Ethopian Emperors to Senators from Arkansas. We should be favouring ubiquitous, versatile templates as opposed to specialised, less general ones. Slac speak up! 01:08, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Images

Is it just me, or are heaps of Australian images dissapearing? Xtra 05:31, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

No. Do you have any examples? Have you checked the deletion log? -- Longhair | Talk 07:33, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

my internet connection was stuffing up. Xtra 09:50, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

List of requested images Wikipedia:Australian_Wikipedians'_notice_board/Request_for_images - took me forever to find this page! -- Jasabella 17:00, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Members of the Australian House of Representatives, 1990-1993

there is a mistake. there is an ALP member listed as Bob Brown. this links to Bob Brown, Green Senator. He has never been an ALP MHR. can someone who knows fix this. Xtra 06:04, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Gah, stuffup on my part. Does anyone know this guy's middle name, so we can rename these? Ambi 07:11, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

He is Robert James Brown, but so is Senator Bob Brown, so that doesn't help you. Adam 07:33, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I see what happened. When I created the parliament list, I found the middle name so I could disambiguate it, but Jiang had redirected it to the article on the senator, and didn't think to check to make sure. Any ideas as to what to name the article now? Bob Brown (xxxx-)? Ambi 12:45, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

How about Bob Brown (Australian Greens politician) and Bob Brown (Australian Labor politician). Adam 13:29, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Roughly what I was going to say too. --ScottDavis 13:31, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

That works fine. Ambi 02:58, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Sorry to come in late here - but shouldn't Bob Brown the Greens politician have primary disambiguation? and what about the one from Robert Brown? -- Chuq 07:17, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Redirect both name ones to Bob Brown, and have secondary disambiguation for the ALP guy as [[Bob Brown (Australian Labor politician}]]

Adminship nomination

I have recently nominated Clarkk for Adminship. I figure Australian Wikipedians might well be able to show some support. Please follow this link to vote. Of course, the nomination is contingent upon Clarkk's acceptance. (He has accepted candidacy)--Cyberjunkie 10:24, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Infobox court case

I've added a proposed Infobox at User:Thebainer/Infobox court case, which displays information about court cases. I created this with Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian law (talk) in mind, but really this could be used for any court. I thought I'd throw it open for comments before I start adding it to articles. --bainer 08:57, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Martin Bryant / contributions by User:Internodeuser

There is an anon editing Martin Bryant, adding conspiracy theories and creating a number of pages on other people they claim to be involved. I don't really know alot about the case, could someone interested take a look, and clean them up or list them for deletion--nixie 12:35, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

All nonsense. Thanks. I listed the 4 I found on VfD.- Longhair | Talk 13:05, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

With malicious comment and personal attacks, no less203.26.206.129 09:54, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

The edits continue, see Special:Contributions/203.26.206.130. I've listed on WP:VIP. The VfD can be seen here by the way. --bainer 14:29, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

FYI, 203.26.206.129 is currently editing and behaving similar to the editor above. -- Longhair | Talk 11:17, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

The range of IPs 203.26.206.0 to 203.26.206.255 are all registered to the South Australian Independent Schools Board Inc (see User talk:203.26.206.130). --bainer 14:28, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Oh dear... I think that might include the State Library. Fairly certain it includes TAFE as well...Alphax ^τεχ 16:18, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

No, it is only used by Internode. Your Domain Name Server is out of date. 203.26.206.129 09:54, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

They've come back to reality somewhat and began creating useful articles. There's still some POV issues with new entires, and a lack of signing posts, but it's improving ;) -- Longhair | Talk 16:53, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I've only been using this for a few weeks. 09:54, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Those who've been editing articles related to Port Arthur and Australian crime may wish to review the comments at User:Internodeuser.

Cripes! This bloke needs an eye kept on him. I had a look at the Port Arthur thing last night and did a bit of tidy-up, correcting a few details and removing a few more Americanisms - SWAT operatives at Port Arthur, c'mon! - but the whole thing's fairly scrappy in terms of style. The Discussion page seems to deal with the conspiracy issue fairly comprehensively. Pete 05:14, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

This constitutes a personal attack. Thank you. 203.26.206.129 09:54, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

User:Internodeuser who is the same as 203.26.206.129 has been editing Alice Springs. S/he made the following comments on the Internodeuser talk page under May 23:

I also spent a fair bit of time today updating various things to do with Alice Springs, and put in a heap about the different aboriginal groups. I started with Mutitjulu and just went from there. The funny thing is that I didn't reference anything, its just what I know to be true. Some of it might not be quite right. But I can bet that that gets changed a lot less than my highly-referenced parts about Martin Bryant. The reason? Because its not controversial. So I can prove something to be true and people still get rid of it just because it upsets them. Silly really.

I have commented out many of his additions on the page with a view that other editors should review and leave in only that which is verifiable or agreed by general concensus. I appreciate that the editor claims to live in Alice Springs and many of the assertions may be correct but they seem biassed to me and inappropriate. By his/her own admission s/he has not referenced anything. Assertions such as 90% of the prison population is aboriginal, levels of crime per head of population, when the water supply will run out, average income, Pine Gap's contribution ot the economy and local culture, racism, aboriginal unemployment, proportion of iteniterant workers are all assertions that can be verified if true but since by the editors own admission they have been included without reference to external sources I am unwilling to let them stand without external references. The assertions appear very POV and do not gel entirely with my perception based on several visits to Alice Springs and a following of Australian current affairs.--AYArktos 23:32, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Apparently Internodeuser thinks that s/he knew about the Port Arthur massacre in 1995, and believes that s/he must help Alice Springs police find Rob Edwards, the secret second gunman and Bryant's accomplice (see this edit). I suggest that a casual eye be kept on this user. --bainer 11:57, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

The Port Arthur Massacre happened in 1996. What happened to me was in 1995. Perhaps you got a bit confused, because what I describe as happened to me in 1995 is so similar. And yes, finding the guy that ruined my life is important to me. Not to mention finding the guy that killed 100 innocent people. Wouldn't that be important to you? But I'm not going to Alice Springs Police. You're a bit confused there. I'm going to Port Arthur Police. 203.26.206.129 09:54, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Just shake your head and walk away. You only need to look at old versions of his user page to see where it ends up. Be bold and edit accordingly. -- Longhair | Talk 13:29, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Another personal attack 203.26.206.129 09:54, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Any editors who've had dealing with Internodeuser or any anonymous ip addresses used by this identity are advised to review the current Request for Arbitration at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#User:Internodeuser. -- Longhair | Talk 09:38, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Another personal attack. 203.26.206.129 09:54, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Not so. Moreso, an invitation to cease? -- Longhair | Talk 09:58, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

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Unrelated to other kookiness, here's another to watch, User:Principalityofgalore.

---

A useful reference for you all: Australian Parliamentary Handbook. Adam 02:09, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket/Collaboration of the fortnight

Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket is launching a collaboration of the fortnight. All cricket-loving Wikipedians are invited to come along and help choose our first collaboration and, of course, to help in the collaboration itself.

Also, if you are interested in helping improve and expand WP's cricket coverage, please feel free to sign up to the Cricket WikiProject. Kind regards, jguk 18:43, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Wikiportal Australia

The Australia Wikiportal is now complete and ready for use by readers and editors alike. Some may find it useful in their goings-about, others may not. All the same, feel free to update and enhance the Wikiportal. To see click here.--Cyberjunkie 10:36, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Australian punting glossary

I have posted the Australian punting glossary. I would invite all Australian Wikipedians with an interest in “The Punt” to take a look and correct or edit my effort, and to contribute any punting terms, expressions or jargon with which they are familiar to the glossary. If you have any friends who are regulars at the racecourse or spend too much time in the TAB, have them check it out. Regards, Eric of Chapel Street.

• Good job, this looks very thorough! You might like to trim it down a little though so it only includes entries which are particularly Australian or particularly related to racing. For example, the colours (bay, chestnut) are probably not necessary. --bainer 09:49, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Murchison region

I'm expanding the dab at Murchison. Can I ask someone knowlegeable to create a stub either at Murchison, Western Australia or Murchison region of Western Australia (it's not clear to me which is the conventional name) and resolve incoming links accordingly? Thanks. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 13:01, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Australian rules stub template

I've been doing some work on the AFL-related pages and I've just created an Australian rules stub template, Template:afl-stub. If anyone has a Sherrin-style football image with which to illustrate it it would be nice.--The Brain of Morbius 13:27, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

{{afl-stub}}

List of South Australian towns and cities

This article seems to be claiming to be a list of all South Australian towns, but in fact only contains a list of about half of the towns with Wikipedia articles. I propose to replace this article with a redirect to List of postcodes in South Australia which does list all towns, and add that article to both Category:Cities in South Australia and Category:Towns in South Australia. Does anybody here have any comments or advice? --ScottDavis 04:48, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

It's a wiki. We can always change it back. Be bold. -- Longhair | Talk 05:27, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Gah! No! The fact that the article is bad is not a reason to link to another article which isn't on the same thing. The natural place for a list of cities and towns in South Australia is at List of towns and cities in South Australia (which is where that article should be) - not as part of a list of postcodes. We really need decent lists of this nature for every state in Australia - what we should be doing is fixing them so they do include every town and city, not killing them. Ambi 09:03, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

I moved this page to List of cities and towns in South Australia, which is a more logical name. I agree with Ambi that postcodes and cities/towns are not the same thing. --bainer 09:27, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

So far, it's two-all. I nearly put the VFD template on it before I realised it didn't need deleting to make a redirect. The List of postcodes in South Australia is sorted alphabetically, not numerically, so I think it either is the list of towns and cities, or only needs to have the postcodes column stripped out to create the list. I guess it should also be divided separately into "cities and towns" (postcodes from 5200 to 5899) and "suburbs" (5000-5199, 59xx). --ScottDavis 09:50, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

That'd be the thing to do, that is, copy the list and delete the postcodes.--Cyberjunkie 11:58, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

I'll say what I really wanted to say now I've got more time. Ambi is correct. Postcodes are not cites or towns. A list of cities or towns is not the same as a list of postcodes. Until somebody does an edit to bring the list of SA towns up to completness (which I'd imagine wouldn't take more than a cut and paste from the appropriate source material), a list of postcodes comes damn close to remsembling a list of towns and cities in a state.

Lists of postcodes however also include such extras as shopping centres and mail centres which are sometimes assigned an entire code so I can see the point being made about inappropriateness. I'd rather the current list be expanded really. -- Longhair | Talk 12:05, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

I've replaced the article with a list derived from the postcodes list, filtered down to postcodes 5200-5899 as I think that's one definition of outside the metro area (and easy to do semiautomatically). However now the District Council of Mount Barker and Adelaide Hills Council seem not to be covered by either the new towns list or the List of Adelaide suburbs. If this conversation is not of interest to the rest of the country, we can take it to the WikiProject Adelaide. --ScottDavis 14:24, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Isn't Mount Barker in the City of Mount Barker? AFAIK Adelaide Hills Council is the odd one out, ever since it changed from being East Torrens - and I'm not entirely sure that it was even a city back then. Alphax ^τεχ 18:19, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Their website says District Council, and has no mention of city status. You've caught me on Adelaide hills. It's the merger of 4 councils, and the East Torrens part has been caught up as country towns, but the Stirling end has not. What if we tacked those two councils to List of Adelaide Suburbs as "Outer metro"? That's what 5MU calls its listener base I think. --ScottDavis 00:22, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

I think the "correct" term is "Greater metropolitan area" - but that might extend from Victor to Gawler or Two Wells or some other ridiculously large area. "Outer metro" is the best I can think of. Alphax ^τεχ 09:11, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Vivian Solon

I'd like to ask some Australian editors to go take a look at the Vivian Solon article and to possibly help improve it, and educate Shevek on what Wikipedia is. Shevek is a new user, and quiet obviously unfamiliar with Wikiquette or consensual editing. I certainly don't think that his/her intentions are nefarious, but perhaps the more viewpoints expressed to him/her will be assuaging. In any case, the article requires attention.--Cyberjunkie 16:50, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

The Ashes

The current Cricket collaboration of the fortnight is The Ashes, please come help out.

Ryan Moloney

Somebody in the UK is taking the mickey out of Toadfish...does anybody care enough about this to extract the useful information and clean it up? --Robert Merkel 11:25, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Vote on contents of Government of Australia

I am now proposing a formal vote at this article on the following proposition:

• That in Government of Australia, and in all other articles dealing with Australia's system of government, it should be stated that:

1. Australia is a constitutional monarchy and a federal parliamentary democracy

2. Australia's head of state is Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Australia

3. Under the Constitution, almost all of the Queen's functions are delegated to and exercised by the Governor-General, as the Queen's representative.

• That any edit which states that (a) Australia is a republic, (b) the Governor-General is Australia's head of state, or (c) Australia has more than one head of state, will be reverted, and that such reversions should not be subject to the three-reversions rule.
• Edits which say that named and relevant persons (eg politicians, constitutional lawyers, judges) disagree with the above position, and which quote those persons at reasonable length, are acceptable, provided proper citation is provided and the three factual statements are not removed.

User:Skyring, who has argued for a contrary position, was given an opportunity to present an alternative position but declined to do so.

I propose that the vote remain open for 48 hours from now (2.30pm AEST 25 May), and that ten votes be required to produce a valid outcome, but I am open to other suggestions on this. Adam 04:46, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Please vote at the article's talk page. --Cyberjunkie 10:16, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Australia related topics and law

I've been updating this along with my effort to get Australia up to faetured article status:

Could people add anything significant that is missing. Also whats up with the article on Australian law, it seems to jsut redirect to the category, was that intentional? --nixie 02:58, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Which article on Australian law exactly? --bainer (talk) 03:18, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Australian Law--nixie 03:50, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

I'd hazard a guess to say what's occured is the original content at Australian Law (shouldn't that be Australian law as per naming conventions anyway?) was sub-standard, and the redirect was a good idea at the time as a content filler for the topic. It'd be great to have a portal type entry page for Australian law, but it's quite a task, and one that requires some deal of legal expertise to bring to reasonable standard. If an Australian law portal or article ever got underway, I'd be interested in helping, though my experiences of law are only related to being involved in a lengthy hearing myself. Any studies I've done are from observation alone, and not academically. There's a few law students about here also that may be able to add quality to such a page. -- Longhair | Talk 04:00, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Wasn't someone setting up a wikipeoject for Australian law?--nixie 04:12, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

It's already occurred - Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian law, but it's been proceeding slowly - most of our later-year students have been particularly busy of late. Ambi 05:33, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

We started it a couple of months ago: Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian law. There are already some good articles on Australian constitutional law and Australian copyright law at the moment, but no central one (I'm surprised no-one has thought of doing one yet). I think I'll start working on one (at the better title of Australian law, with the lowercase). Any ideas about what it should include? --bainer (talk) 05:38, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

When I made the summary article Law enforcement in Australia, I just tried to outline who was in charge of what, so I imagine a start on the law article would be which level of government has jurisdication over which laws. --nixie 10:09, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

When in doubt, look to North America. Law of the United States isn't awfully long, but provides what doesn't look to be too bad an article. I can't see any other examples though. Ambi 10:12, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Okay, so I added the page at Law of Australia (Australian law now redirects to this), modelled basically on Law of the US. --bainer (talk) 11:45, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Title of the notice board

This page has been moved from "Wikipedia:Australian wikipedians' notice board" to "Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board" on Apr 12, 2005 by User:Timwi (See edit history). — Instantnood 14:08, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

Your point? The move was to fix incorrect casing, as you've shown.--Cyberjunkie 12:41, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There were several notice boards using the lower case, and there is no guideline on which case should be used. It was a block move without any discussion. If folks at this notice board think it is alright to be moved then there's no problem. People at the Canadian notice board moved it back at least once. — Instantnood 15:57, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

Sheesh. I don't mean to be harsh, but we really don't need guidelines on every single little thing. Ambi 17:20, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That's not the main reason. Folks of some notice boards prefer the lower case, as in the case of Canada, that people moved it back. There's little foundation to have it standardised. If people at this notice board agree with the title change then it's fine (for this board). — Instantnood 17:33, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

The page was moved in April. No one has since objected. Ergo, Aussie Wikipedians can be assumed to be content. Since Instantnood has raised the (non-)issue, if anyone does object, please do so now.--Cyberjunkie 01:53, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The title name problem is firstly discovered by me, and I've only leaved a message in the HKWNB's talk page at 18 April. And noticed Timwi changed the title name without others' agreement, and seems that this move is non trivial move for others. (but if the name that currently using is okay, and that's fine) --Shinjiman ⇔ ♨ 07:06, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've noticed that some subpage links (and the edit and purge links) have been broken - they're mostly corrected now though. Alphax ^τεχ 09:04, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Notable?

Is Lloyd Nicholas Robinson a notable person whose biography needs to cleaned up, or is this just a vanity page (refers to "Dad" at one point)? --ScottDavis 10:54, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps not. The only "notable" aspect would be his presidency of the Australian Speleological Federation, but then, this is not greatly explored. It's the first time I've encountered the term "caving", too. The early life section is particularly irrelevant. However, approach this carefully, as someone has obviously put effort into it.--Cyberjunkie 12:45, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Noteable enough in the field of Caving, although it reads like a personal reminisance and deserves to be edited down to the significant details.--Takver 06:45, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've just trimmed a fair bit from the article, mostly of it irrelevant and un-encyclopædic. Unless someone can expand upon Robinson's role within speleological associations, I think a VfD might be appropriate, merging any salvagable information with Australian Speleological Federation.--Cyberjunkie 15:54, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Looks okay now. Have removed the cleanup tag.--Takver 11:24, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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New from me: John Brumby. Adam 05:25, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Schapelle Corby recent additions by an anon user

Could someone please look at the recent external links added to the Schapelle Corby article. I do not think the link is appropriate. Nor does User:CryptoDerk who reverted the additions before me. The changes are being made by IP addresses 203.122.246.141 and 203.26.206.130 which are the same as used by User:Internodeuser. I did not realise this when I first reverted the changes. Having now realised this I feel unable to take these edits on and need to leave the review for someone who has not been involved with this user before and therefore may be seen as being more impartial.--AYArktos 05:16, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What do you mean by innappropriate? Xtra 07:12, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

have a look at the link [1]. It is a link to an MP3 site with a single called "goin in for schapelle" by an artist called dj BLACKHAWK who describes himself as "a multimedia artist, who takes a public issue and makes an emotional capsule with it". There is no accompanying commentary in the article linking the placement of this URL, for example how varied public response is and how it is taking a multimedia approach ... My first response was this is spam. My second response is if someone is so keen for the link to appear then they need to add some meaningful content to the article to justify the link, preferably putting it into a broader context.--AYArktos 07:21, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Have you listened to the song? I wrote it in a whirlwind of supportive emotion, surfing, as it were, on the tidal wave of the expression from the wemon in my office, and my wife, who sits behind me on the artists portait on the Mp3 site. It was a long time ago now, at the time we had a barbeque and i played it to the cross generations gathered and everyone shuffled around looking at the ground, getting emotional. ..... it was meant with irony but also garner the emotion of recue, the impossible extraction, to save a stranded damsel...... every so often when she hits the news again someone at 3d Radio in adelaide plays it the next morning. As a multi-thread visual artist I interested in everything about this work, the way it renders pictures large in the head and these are emotive, they are nationalistic and ironic, we are outside the law inn our hearts but bound by reality. I made a few other versions, one was of a live recording i did in Queensland, its called "Live in Queensland" and the last version was one after the dreams had stopped and its caalled "G-I-F-S- bling". Ive only ever recorded one song. Dj Blackhawk. Please see http://andywarhola.blogspot.com/ for the film work of Dr Andy Warhola, another thread of the Australian Contemporary Artist Andrew Petrusevics. 4 Nov 2006.

Anybody can list a track at mp3.com.au. It's nothing more than a free web host offering unsigned artists some cheap exposure. (Waves to Internodeuser). -- Longhair | Talk 07:43, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)