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Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 December 8

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December 8

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Category:Television stations in need of cleanup

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The result of the debate was rename to Category:WikiProject Television Stations cleanup. the wub "?!" 23:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Television stations in need of cleanup to Category:Television station cleanup
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Category:Articles with example Octave code

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The result of the debate was delete. the wub "?!" 23:07, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Articles with example Octave code (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

This category is empty. If there's a demand for Matlab example code, this cat should be re-created at Category:Articles with example Matlab code and re-populated appropriately; but at the moment I don't see many articles that would benefit from examples in Matlab (as opposed to a non-array-based language such as Pascal). This deletion is part of this proposal for cleanup of the example code categories. --Quuxplusone 22:57, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Disused railway stations in Scotland

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The result of the debate was No consensus to rename Tim! 12:30, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Disused railway stations in Scotland to Category:Disused stations in Scotland

Comment (sort of): See additional comments at the talk page. Simply south 13:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Proposal would be too ambiguous: there are other types of stations that would be irrelevant (petrol, bus, coach etc.). The fact that the Subway is entirely underground doesn't prevent it from being a railway.FrFintonStack 15:35, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Notable publications in evolutionary biology

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The result of the debate was rename. the wub "?!" 15:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Notable publications in evolutionary biology to Category:Evolutionary biology literature
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Category:Extremism

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Category:Extremism (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
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The result of the debate was Delete Tim! 12:33, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Assignment of this category is almost entirely a matter of point of view, and would seem likely to lead to edit wars. Mwanner | Talk 18:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Notable people from Mar del Plata

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The result of the debate was rename per nom. David Kernow (talk) 04:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Notable people from Mar del Plata to Category:People from Mar del Plata
But adding "Notable" to this category name does not make it any more specific.-choster 19:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Overcategorization of American religious leaders

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The result of the debate was merge all per nom. David Kernow (talk) 04:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Category:American religious leaders, excessive overcategorization, see discussion of December 6th. -- ProveIt (talk) 17:39, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Easy Listening

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The result of the debate was rename to Category:Easy listening music. the wub "?!" 23:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
(moved from speedy)

So you don't even want to fix the capitalization error?? -- Satori Son 15:15, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • KeepAs stated, the addition of 'music' would be a redundancy. 'Classical', without further elaboration, could mean many things, from architecture to languages to C19th sociological theory: this is not the case with Easy Listening. I'd also keep the cap, as the term has become a titular rather than simply a descriptive.FrFintonStack 15:32, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. There is indeed value in adding a word that makes the category subject more clear to everyone. We have Category:Ambient music, Category:Atonal music, Category:Classical music, Category:Country music, Category:Dance music, Category:Folk music, Category:Folk rock music, Category:Hardcore music, Category:New Age music, Category:New Wave music, Category:Pop music, Category:Ranchera music, Category:Rock music, Category:Smooth jazz music, Category:Steelpan music, Category:Techno music, and Category:Trance music. Surely several of these are slightly redundant, but just because we know that "easy listening", "new wave", "smooth jazz", "techno", etc., are musical genres, it doesn't mean readers all over the world also immediately recognize those terms as such. -- Satori Son 16:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I see your point, but with a few exceptions (smooth jazz and ranchera, and in those cases, the articles devoted to them do not have the word 'music' in title), all those terms have potentially ambiguous meanings (Ambient atmosphere, Folk rebellion, Hardcore porn, New Age mysticism, New Wave cinema, fizzy Pop, Rock salt, Techno as a virtually all-purpose prefix, and well, the state of being in a Trance). In addition, the term "Easy Listening" already acts as a sufficient descriptive to anyone with a working knowledge of the English language, while ranchera and the like require a degree of direct knowledge of the subject at hand. Furthermore, in the proposed "Easy listening music" category, where the "Easy" and "listening" are reduced to mere adjectives and the "music" raised to the object and noun, many kinds of music would that fall without the common understanding of "Easy Listening" could fall into the category because they make, well, easy listening. Like smooth jazz and steelpan, for example.FrFintonStack 02:31, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Final Fantasy minigames

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Category:Final Fantasy minigames (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
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The result of the debate was Delete Tim! 12:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete All of the articles in this category have been merged together into Minigames of Final Fantasy, leaving it empty. As such, it should be deleted. --PresN 16:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:United States Attorneys' offices

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The result of the debate was Delete Tim! 12:41, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, There aren't any actual pages on these offices. The individual pages redirect to the United States District Court pages. No need for a whole category that suggests that there will actually be a page on these offices, when there are no such pages. JCO312 15:50, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. In general, redirect pages should not be categorized, anyway. (There are a few exceptions, probably, but mostly it's just misleading and confusing, as in this case.) --Quuxplusone 22:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Christian editors

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The result of the debate was moved to Category:Editors of Christian works per Tlmclain; more than two or three members and "Editors of Christian works" seems a viable category. David Kernow (talk) 04:33, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Category:Editors, is religion relevent here? Note this is currently the only Category:Editors by religion category. -- ProveIt (talk) 15:39, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Notable Christmas trees

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The result of the debate was rename per nom. David Kernow (talk) 04:34, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Notable Christmas trees to Category:Christmas trees
Most of them should be, yes. Sometimes the word notable is thrown-in to make it clear that the category is intended for articles about individual instances (e.g. articles about specific rooms, and not ones about rooms in general), but there are almost always better ways to do this. ×Meegs 15:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've yet to see a "notable" category survive a cfd/cfr nomination. As Meegs notes there are almost always better ways to capture significance besides simply labeling something as significant. -choster 18:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There was some peripheral discussion here in support of Category:Famous animals, and famous is pretty much the same as notable. ×Meegs 19:07, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Who gives a crap about regular Christmas trees? I mean, there are probably like 50,000,000 christmas trees. We only care about the notable ones. .V. 18:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That is precisely the point. "Notable" in category names is reduplicative. -choster 19:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You're assuming people who view it will be familiar with Wikipedia policy. Of course it's obvious to you, because you know the policy. To someone who just shows up, using "Notable" is MUCH clearer. I don't think newbies or casual readers should have this inconvenience. I mean, they might see it and think "balls, I can put any friggin christmas tree in here, look there's the category of it!" Seriously m8, this needs some consideration. So, it's a bit longer. That's the price for specificiosity. .V. 21:14, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The extra word serves the same purpose for each. I'm not sure there's not a better name for both of them, though. ×Meegs 22:53, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Gay actors from the United States

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The result of the debate was no consensus. David Kernow (talk) 04:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Category:Gay actors, or at least Rename to Category:American gay actors, yet another triple intersection. -- ProveIt (talk) 15:17, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Because it simply reflects one movements view on which favoured groups should be combined. Why are paedophiles and necrophiles excluded? Hawkestone 20:14, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Because only a jackass would seek to equate fucking children and corpses with being LGBT. Otto4711 23:24, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Are you implying that there is a diffrence between a straight person and a LGBT person other than whom they choose to have sex with? Seems to me there isnt and that categorizing by sexual atrraction doesnt work, as some people are sexually attracted to things like rubber chickens. (Animedude 10:46, 17 December 2006 (UTC))[reply]
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Category:Estudios Churubusco films

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The result of the debate was keep —Pilotguy (ptt) 23:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC) Category:Estudios Churubusco films[reply]

Rename to Category: Films shot at Estudios Churubusco. JW 14:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The films were shot at Estudios Churubusco, not made by them, which is why the category name needs changing. JW 15:14, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America

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The result of the debate was no consensus —Pilotguy (ptt) 23:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Category:Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Delete This category and its subcategories refer to the appendices in the book Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America by Haynes and Klehr. In these appendices, various categories of known or suspected Soviet spies are listed, and these WP categories are collections of the biography articles of the names appearing in those lists. As noted in the content of Venona Appendix A, the usefulness and validity of these lists is disputed by some. The content of appendices B, C, D, and E are often dubious and based on suspect conclusions on the part of authors Haynes and Klehr. The Venona Appendix E category even includes names that aren't included in the actual Appendix E of Haynes and Klehr's book. Making this book and the content of its appendices into a category is POV, as it suggests that the book is some kind of canonical, indisputable source of truth; a view that is not held by scholars in the field. The content of Venona Appendix A (including the disclaimer in the text, of course) is interesting and useful, and should be made into an article. The content of the other appendix/subcategories is non-notable and should be deleted. KarlBunker 14:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, as this is hopelessly POV and almost impossible to prove one way or the other. This information belongs in the book article or a list attached to it. --Dhartung | Talk 19:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I haven't read the book, so I can't say for sure, but I think the lists are worth keeping if the authors were merely collecting names from other sources. For example, if the cat were "People mentioned in Venona decrypts", that sounds interesting and factual enough to keep. However, if the lists were "original research" by the authors (in the Wikipedia sense), then I'd be a little worried about POV and a lot more worried about WP:COPYVIO. See the perennial discussions on "top N lists", such as Fortune's Top 100 Places to Work. We can't just grab this book's list, unless it's really notable enough to qualify as fair use. In any case, these cats need renaming. --Quuxplusone 23:12, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: Quuxplusone may be right that the use of these lists represents a WP:COPYVIO. The lists are not straightforward transcriptions of names from publicly available documents. Rather, Haynes and Klehr applied their own research and conclusions to determine what names should be included in their lists. The reason for this is that people appearing in the "Venona transcripts" (which are publicly available NSA documents) are usually identified by codenames. Determining which codename represents which person often requires some creative research. KarlBunker 14:03, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - someone asked about this on Wikipedia talk:Copyrights/Can I use... and I offered my opinion there with regards to copyright. Facts are non-creative and thus not copyrightable. So if a book compiled a list of, say, every college football player who caught at least 10 passes each year, that may be an interesting fact, but it's still not copyrightable. On the other hand, if they are listing their 100 favorite college football players, we cannot use that. I don't know the subject matter, so I don't know if these lists are exhaustive lists of publically available information or if they are lists of people the author felt was important or otherwise creative. From reading what everyone is saying here, it looks like they are POV lists, which would be copyrightable. Regardless of copyright issues, I suggest delete - they are unencyclopedic categories. BigDT 15:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
  • comment what is to be done about all the bio articles in WP that use this Venona information as the factual basis for assertions that the person was a Soviet agent? Hmains 18:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I don't see a problem. Haynes and Klehr's book is still a valid source of analysis and opinion, as long as it's described in the article as opinion. Probably a lot of these articles should be edited to avoid using Haynes and Klehr's opinions and analyses as if they were established fact, but overall, they're valid as articles. KarlBunker 01:40, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Presumably the Venona transcripts are from the US Government and once declassified would be in the public domain. As for the articles, we should certainly refer to what the transcripts actually said if that information is available. Capitalistroadster 18:57, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Provides a necessary and important index to articles describing the events and persons involved in known breaches of security in the USA. 71.100.6.152 00:11, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Capitalistroadster, you've ignored my comments. The lists in these categories are not a simple transcription of US Government documents or publicly available information.
  • Comment: 71.100.6.152, your comment is factually incorrect. These people in these lists are not "known" to have participated in breaches of security. KarlBunker 00:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Italian Rapists

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The result of the debate was rename. David Kernow (talk) 04:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Italian Rapists (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete. Was up for speedy rename, but this is a POV category (unless it's renamed to "convicted Italian rapists" which I am not proposing), and the only entry currently is an ancient Roman who therefore was not an Italian. If kept, rename to Category:Italian rapists. RobertG ♬ talk 11:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Rename to Category:Italian rapists. Not POV and the Ancient Roman in question was Italian. Olborne 13:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename. It was me who created this category. At present it only contains one person but it may well expand, I doubt if rape is a particularly unusual offence in Italy. This is the definition of the super-category "Rapists": "This category is for individuals who have been criminally convicted of rape, or those for whom there is little academic doubt among historians as to whether they committed the crime." While the history of the kings of Rome is largely mythical, the expulsion of the Tarquins may well be a historical incident, give him the benefit of the doubt. Assigning nationality to historical figures can be problematic in some cases, but Italians are relatively straightforward. "Italian people" and its sub-categories already contains a lot of people (e.g. some Renaissance artists) who pre-date the creation of a unitary Italian state in the 19th century. PatGallacher 13:43, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Just checked, the category "Ancient Romans" is a sub-category of "Italian people", so this is presumably a well-established categorization accepted by most Wikipedians who have worked on this area. PatGallacher 13:52, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What precedent? We have loads of existing categories for rapists and other criminals. If there are libel problems in some cases then remove the person from the category. PatGallacher 21:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There is no such precedent. On the contrary that position has been rejected muliple times as anachronistic, Western-centric and contrary to full and accurate categorisation. Osomec 19:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:New York Times people

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The result of the debate was keep. David Kernow (talk) 04:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC) Category:New York Times people to Category:The New York Times people[reply]

rename subcategory on Category:The New York Times.--Wosmd 10:15, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Hypothetical galaxies

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The result of the debate was nomination withdrawn. David Kernow (talk) 04:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Hypothetical galaxies into Category:Galaxies
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Category:X-Men animated series

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The result of the debate was delete. David Kernow (talk) 04:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

rename as X-Men (TV series). Ruwcsx2 08:32, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete This category doesn't appear to be necesary. In general it's a bad idea for individual television shows and films to have their own seperate categories unless the category covers multiple shows/spinoffs/films or is otherwise somehow extremely important in television history. In this case, the articles in the category should probably instead be categorized or listed under either cast lists/categories or episode lists/categories. Dugwiki 20:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename to Category:X-Men episodes, and remove the main article from the category. -Sean Curtin 04:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per precedent. We can't categorize every X-Man based on every single program, game, comic, movie, ad, etc. they ever appeared in. Overcategorization. Doczilla 07:25, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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X-Men Evolution

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The result of the debate was delete X-Men Evolution, keep/no consensus re X-Men Evolution episodes. David Kernow (talk) 04:51, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

rename as X-Men: Evolution. Ruwcsx 08:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Molecular and Cellular Biology

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The result of the debate was a rename to WikiProject Molecular and Cellular Biology articles per description on category's page. (This should not be the only category carried by these articles.) David Kernow (talk) 04:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Molecular and Cellular Biology to Category:molecular and cellular biology
Either one sounds good to me. Dr Aaron 06:02, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Rename Category:Molecular and cellular biology (as per WP naming conventions) if for encyclopedic content. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 06:08, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:American Veteran Politicians

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The result of the debate was delete. the wub "?!" 10:26, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to Category:American veteran politicians or Delete. -- ProveIt (talk) 03:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Georgia Bulldogs basketball players

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Category:Georgia Bulldogs basketball

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Category:Georgia Bulldogs basketball coaches

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The result of the discussion was: withdrawn.--Mike Selinker 18:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Georgia Bulldogs basketball players to Category:Georgia Bulldogs men’s basketball players
Category:Georgia Bulldogs basketball coaches to Category:Georgia Bulldogs men’s basketball coaches
Category:Georgia Bulldogs basketball to Category:Georgia Bulldogs men’s basketball

*Rename, to avoid confusion with the women's basketball team. This is part of a revised category hierarchy for the University of Georgia - see Template:UGAcats Tlmclain | Talk 03:02, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've consolidated these topics after triplicate comments from Tlmclain and Mike Selinker. ×Meegs 16:04, 8 December 2006 (UTC) [reply]
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Category:University of Georgia basketball

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The result of the discussion was: withdrawn.--Mike Selinker 18:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Category:University of Georgia basketball (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete. This particular category is no longer needed as a result of a reorganization of the category heirarchy for the University of Georgia - see Template:UGAcats. Tlmclain | Talk 02:45, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Fictional characters based on real people

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The result of the debate was —Pilotguy (ptt) 23:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted from November 25 CfD

Category:Fictional characters based on real people into Category:Fictional versions of real people

based on" can be a tricky area to determine. Limiting the category to direct analogues is probably for the best. -Sean Curtin 04:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Multiple people

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The result of the debate was no consensus —Pilotguy (ptt) 23:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted from November 24 CfD
  • Keep This category is not suppossed to cover extensive groups. User:Dimadick
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Category:Chadron State Football Players

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The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was rename —Pilotguy (ptt) 23:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to Category:Chadron State Eagles football players, convention of Category:College football players. -- ProveIt (talk) 02:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Roman Catholic crime families

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The result of the debate was delete —Pilotguy (ptt) 23:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, see also relevent discussion. -- ProveIt (talk) 02:14, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep I have spent most of this week reorganizing Category:Families according to the layout seen on the right side of User:TonyTheTiger#Categories Created. In particular, I have created Category:Families by profession, Category:Families by religion, & Category:Families by ancestry to supplement the already existant Category:Families by nationality. I moved the pages in Category:Roman Catholic crime families to the Category:Roman Catholic families subcategory of Families by religion and Category:Crime families subcategory of Families by profession. In retrospect, I think it will be more correct to replace the pages moved and make Category:Roman Catholic crime families a subcategory of both of these subcategories. By 5:00 PM Central on Friday all changes will likely be reverted. Note subcategories appear with redlinks at this hour because the two categories Category:Crime families and Category:Roman Catholic families were misspelled by their creators. They have been proposed for speedy rename. TonyTheTiger 07:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete After further review. This is an unnecessary category. TonyTheTiger 17:21, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Crime family

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The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was rename —Pilotguy (ptt) 23:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, or at least Rename to Category:Crime families. -- ProveIt (talk) 02:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and rename to Category:Crime families I had proposed this as a speedy rename. The subcategory will not be empty for long. I am replacing the Five Families in the subcategory. As stated above I have spent most of this week reorganizing Category:Families according to the layout seen on the right side of User:TonyTheTiger#Categories Created. In particular, I have created Category:Families by profession, Category:Families by religion, & Category:Families by ancestry to supplement the already existant Category:Families by nationality. I moved the (Five Families) pages in Category:Roman Catholic crime families to the Category:Roman Catholic families subcategory of Families by religion and Category:Crime families subcategory of Families by profession. In retrospect, I think it will be more correct to replace the pages moved and make Category:Roman Catholic crime families a subcategory of both of these subcategories. By 5:00 PM Central on Friday all changes will likely be reverted. Note subcategories appear with redlinks at this hour because the two categories Category:Crime families and Category:Roman Catholic families were misspelled by their creators. I proposed them for speedy rename, but they ended up here. TonyTheTiger 16:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. note that right now at least two populated categories would be parented by the renamed Category:Crime families (Category:Mafia crime families and Category:Outlaw gangs).
P.S. possbily rename as Criminal families and gangs. TonyTheTiger 20:59, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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New Universe categories

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The result of the debate was rename —Pilotguy (ptt) 23:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Marvel Comics - New Universe into Category:New Universe
Category:Marvel Comics - New Universe characters into Category:New Universe characters
  • Rename. There is nothing else of note called "New Universe", so no disambiguation is needed — and the disambiguation format is improper in any case. –Unint 01:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Psi-Force members
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