Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Verses of 1 Kings 4 and 5

Please use the discussion page for discussion

Please use the discussion page for discussion

This is a proposal to completely and permanently ban any future creation of articles with any of the following titles:

• 1 Kings 4, 1 Kings 4:21, 1 Kings 4:22, 1 Kings 4:23, 1 Kings 4:24, 1 Kings 4:25, 1 Kings 4:26, 1 Kings 4:27, 1 Kings 4:28, 1 Kings 4:29, 1 Kings 4:30, 1 Kings 4:31, 1 Kings 4:32, 1 Kings 4:33, 1 Kings 4:34, 1 Kings 4:35
• 1 Kings 5, 1 Kings 5:1, 1 Kings 5:2, 1 Kings 5:3, 1 Kings 5:4, 1 Kings 5:5, 1 Kings 5:6, 1 Kings 5:7, 1 Kings 5:8, 1 Kings 5:9, 1 Kings 5:10, 1 Kings 5:11, 1 Kings 5:12, 1 Kings 5:13, 1 Kings 5:14, 1 Kings 5:15, 1 Kings 5:16, 1 Kings 5:17, 1 Kings 5:18, 1 Kings 5:19, 1 Kings 5:20, 1 Kings 5:21, 1 Kings 5:22, 1 Kings 5:23, 1 Kings 5:24, 1 Kings 5:25, 1 Kings 5:26, 1 Kings 5:27, 1 Kings 5:28, 1 Kings 5:29, 1 Kings 5:30, 1 Kings 5:31, 1 Kings 5:32

[Note that these do not currently exist, but a recent trend around other parts of the Bible indicates that they are likely to be a potential creation]

The reason for this is NPOV. Although this might seem odd, most people don't realise that:

• The translation in the New American Bible of 1 Kings 5:1-3 is

Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the River to the land of the Philistines, down to the border of Egypt; they paid Solomon tribute and were his vassals as long as he lived. Solomon's supplies for each day were thirty kors of fine flour, sixty kors of meal, ten fatted oxen, twenty pasture-fed oxen, and a hundred sheep, not counting harts, gazelles, roebucks, and fatted fowl. the verses on the vatican website

• The translation used in the King James Version of exactly the same verse numbers - 1 Kings 5:1-3 is

And Hiram king of Tyre sent his servants unto Solomon; for he had heard that they had anointed him king in the room of his father: for Hiram was ever a lover of David. And Solomon sent to Hiram, saying, Thou knowest how that David my father could not build an house unto the name of the LORD his God for the wars which were about him on every side, until the LORD put them under the soles of his feet. the verses on biblegateway.com

As you can see, these are absolutely, completely, and completely undeniably, different. This is owing to a much larger problem - the numbering of verses is an artificial invention, and in some cases don't match up between translations at all.

• 1 Kings 5:1-14 in the NAB translates the same text as 1 Kings 4:21-34 in the KJV
• 1 Kings 5:15-32 in the NAB translates the same text as 1 Kings 5:1-18 in the KJV
• In the NAB, 1 Kings 4:21-34 just don't exist
• In the KJV, 1 Kings 5:19-32 just don't exist

Many modern translations follow the KJV, but the NAB is the official, vatican sanctioned, Roman Catholic translation of the Bible, so is highly significant. Most Hebrew versions of these verses use the NAB numbering.

Therefore, to state that 5:1-14 is one set of texts rather than the other completely violates NPOV, and by extension, any claim as to what 1 Kings 4 or 1 Kings 5 discuss, as well as 1 Kings 4:21-34 and 1 Kings 5:15-32. Thus it is impossible to have any articles under these titles that are NPOV, and in some cases the titles themselves intrinsically violate NPOV. Therefore I propose to ban articles under any of those names. Note that this does not propose banning the subject matter, just compelling it to be under a non-numbering related title

Please use the discussion page for discussion