Wikipedia:Drawing board/Archives/2009/January

Fake checks

I would like to write an article on fake checks. There are currently articles on Wikipedia discussing related issues, such as advance fee fraud (which has a sub-section on fake cheques), but it does not go in to detail about the issue. There is also an article on cheque fraud, but I'm not sure it is specific enough to the issue of fake checks.

In particular, there appears to be little/no information related to whose responsibility it is when people are victims of fake check fraud and what agencies and non-profit organizations are doing to fight fake check fraud.

Input from the community on whether this is merits its own article, or simply clean-up/expansion of the existing articles ont he subject would be much appreciated.

JammingEcono (talk) 16:41, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I feel that a separate section needs created for Fake Checks to talk about the various types of Fake Check Fraud. Not only is there Advance Fee Fraud, but fake checks also happen with Work at Home Schemes, Love Losses, and Rental Schemes as well.

Also, fake checks could also cover fake Demand Draft or Remotely Created Checks that draft a consumers account without their permission, another large segment of Fake Check Fraud. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.71.234.254 (talk) 14:56, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi. The question would be what kind of sources you have to demonstrate notability of the specific subject of "fake checks." With articles like these, there's always a little bit of a challenge to be sure that the title you're choosing is a widely used term that has been the subject of specific commentary from respectable sources like newspapers or journal articles or major websites, like bloomberg. Helping your case, there seems to be a respectable source right at that name: http://www.fakechecks.org/. (For more about this, see Wikipedia:Avoid neologisms. Basic point: as long as the title is in wide usage with plenty of secondary sources talking about it, as a specific term, then you're probably in good shape.)

The other issue is whether or not you have enough additional information to warrant breaking out Advance-fee fraud#Fake checks into a new article. Helping your case there, that article seems quite long. (See Wikipedia:Article size and Wikipedia:Splitting.) If you do have enough sourced information that refers to reliable (non-promotional) sources to substantially expand that section, then it may well be appropriate to create a separate article, leaving a summary section at the original. Please be sure if you do split the material into a new article that you follow the procedure for crediting the original contributors in the edit summary of both articles. This is essentially to honor the copyright of the people who have written the text.

If you would like further feedback from me about this, including more specific directions for doing any of these things, please feel free to leave me a note at my talk page (see the link after my username). --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:53, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Żądło-Dąbrowski z Dąbrówki h. Radwan

Żądło-Dąbrowski z Dąbrówki h. Radwan

This is the noble Polish family of the following two members, who each have their own article on Wikipedia:

Jarosław Dąbrowski

Stefan Tytus Dąbrowski

A third notable member of the family is:

• Teofil Żądło-Dąbrowski z Dąbrówki h. Radwan – Brother of J. Dąbrowski; Officer in the January Uprising (1863); Chief of Staff of the National Guard, the Paris Commune; Associate of Karl Marx, International Workingmen's Association, London.

The family is part of the immemorial Polish nobility. In the 18th century, nobility tracing its origins before the 15th century represented only 5% of the noble population as a whole. I believe that makes this family, the subject of the article, notable, particularly since the family has notable members, too.

In support of that 5% figure, see: http://books.google.com/books?id=MnwmMOWK-PsC&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136

It seems ridiculous not to have a separate article on the noble family of these notable members, given the family they've come from is notable in and of itself. Without the article on their family, the same information about their background needs to be repeated in several articles. This is not good. There's no genealogical intent. The article on nobility states the term originally meant those who were known or notable.

The information in the deleted article is not very much different than information which appears in existing articles about these other Polish noble families:

Chołodecki

Hryniewiecki

Kalinowski family

Skwierczyński

This is some of the information I'd like to include in the article:

---

The Żądło-Dąbrowski z Dąbrówki h. Radwan family belonged to the immemorial Polish nobility.  They originated from the Radwan knights' clan.  They were connected to Polish-English author Joseph Conrad and the revolutionary fight for national independence.

Żądło-Dąbrowski is pronounced "Zhondwo-Dombrovski."

From Mazowsze, Poland, the old szlachta (noble) family Żądło-Dąbrowski of Dąbrówka, coat-of-arms Radwan, took their surname from the village/patrimony Dąbrówka outside Piaseczno in the lands (ziemia/"county") of Warszawa, where other members of the family settled predominantly in the lands (ziemia) of Różan.  They were always nobility, belonging to the szlachta odwieczna or immemorial nobility, and in the armorials of Poland, documentation from the 15th century is used to note them.  The original surname/przydomek they used was "Żądło" (the Sting), prior to establishing the fixed surname/cognomen Dąbrowski derived from their patrimony/inheritance Dąbrówki/Dąbrówka.

The family were first and foremost members of the ancient Radwan knights' clan (ród)/gens before they established a fixed surname/cognomen derived from their patrimony/inheritance (Dąbrówki/Dąbrówka):

"In Poland, the Radwanice were noted relatively early (1274) as the descendants of Radwan, a knight [more properly a "rycerz" {German "ritter"}] active a few decades earlier. ...".

Footnotes/Verifiable, Third-Party, Widely-Published Sources -- Żądło-Dąbrowski z Dąbrówki h. Radwan

---

My primary concern is if the family per se is notable, given the verifiable sources provided?

Thanks in advance. -- Exxess (talk) 04:21, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but this is not the proper forum for this question. Community consensus has already determined that the article that was deleted did not demonstrate notability, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Radwan Dąbrowski-Żądło Family (3rd nomination). If you garner new evidence to suggest otherwise, you might want to bring up the matter again at deletion review. If the sources are the same as were already in the article, then the community has already decided that the answer is no. The opinion of one or two contributors here could not change that, even if they did agree with you, and raising the question might put you at risk of seeming to forum shop. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:01, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I want to ad a new word that I used with friends: "Digikiss" (digi-kiss)

The idea of sending a fisical kiss to someone through a digital media , like a mobile phone or pager is no really possible , so i wanted to send a type of kiss that i was not just audible or readable , but a fisical one and that had more meaning to someone who was the reciever of the digital kiss or like i have being naming IT with friends and love ones "DIGIKISS" OR "DIGI-KISS" , So basically the DIGIKISS is: a kiss that is sent through a digital divise , cell phone ,black berry , pager and others where you can sent TEXT massege . the DIGIKISS is no just a text , is a recieve command from the sender to act on the act/same moment you view the Text massege (example of text: " Hi honey i miss you so much ,wish you were here, i'm sending you a digikiss! i love you .") now the command or order is to be done at ones and digital divise for that moment will become the fisical part of the sender and should be place wherever the receiver will like to be kiss by the sender , so by placing the mobile phone in the part of the body the receiver of the digikiss or digi-kiss is compleating the command and the digikiss is completed . so the DIGIKISS or DIGI-KISS is a command that is sent to someone through a digital divise as a mobile phone and the command is to be fisically done at the time of view the massege, by placing the divise in a part or parts of the body where the receiver will like the sender to kiss in that pricise moment , so it becomes a fisical and interactive action/movement of acceptance of the reciever towards the senders , and/or in a instance of playfull action the divise or mobile phone could be place in an area of the body where it means something amusing or bulgar , if suspect of the sender of hiding close by to see the answer of the DIGIKISS or DIGI-KISS by the receiver, as I have had from many of my friends who love the idea of this new word that commands the receiver to kiss a part of their bodies , with their phones, mobile or digital divises --Pussila (talk) 12:14, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia. I'm afraid that this may not meet our inclusion guidelines on Wikipedia at this time. See Wikipedia:Avoid neologisms, Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary and Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not for things made up one day. If the term catches on enough to meet our notability guidelines, then maybe someday. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:13, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

BBS Addition

Will someone please respond to my ideas about the additions of BBSes here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Drawing_board/Archives/2008/December#BBS_Addition/ReveurGAM (talk) 08:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I'm sorry that your question went unanswered. It does seem to be a bit off topic for the Drawing Board, however, which exists to discuss ideas for new articles you would like to write, not suggestions for articles you'd like to see written by others. For that, you might wish to try requested articles, which has the unfortunate disadvantage of being a very hit-and-miss forum, or a relevant Wikipedia:WikiProject or article (pick an active one!). You seem to have been around for a while, so forgive me if I'm obvious, but you mention that "there are no criteria listed that define "notable"." Notability for web material is defined here. If you bring this to the attention of other editors involved with such topics, they may be able to better help determine which of those meet notability and how to demonstrate that. My feedback would be limited to evaluating actual reliable sources used to verify such information as "Its influence and popularity contributed to ExecPC being sold by Bob Mahoney and was, until the advent of Metro BBS, the only real competition for ExecPC. Others, such as UDN, were pet projects, under-funded and/or just too "small," despite being multi-lined." But basically the number and quality of reliable sources is frequently the primary determinant of notability.

One more alternative I'll mention to you is that you might write these articles yourself in a user sandbox and then seek feedback on them at the conflict of interest noticeboard. I have seen this done in the past with good success, where articles were subsequently moved to article space. If you'd like to make sure it'll work out before the effort, you could ask in advance if a contributor there would be willing to provide feedback in that way. Goes without saying, I'm sure, that you'd need to avoid original research and go for neutrality. :) Good luck! --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:37, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Moonriddengirl. No worries about the delay - I figured I'd put in the request incorrectly so noone noticed it. I will try to post a reference to my request in the requested articles link, referencing what I wrote here. I got confused looking at Wikipedia:WikiProject!

I reviewed the notability information (it was not linked to on the BBS list page) and this is one of the reasons I'm making the request that someone else do it. I live in Indonesia, in Semarang, an area where there are scant resources, and I don't have the money to buy lots of resources, nor travel to where they might be. I've already searched for Tower of Babble on the Internet, and only found mention of it on historical lists of BBSes, and what I added to BBS Mates. There are hits for Online Data Systems, but the ones I looked at were either historical lists or other items that are not notable. Metro BBS is still an active BBS, as far as I can tell, which seems to make it noteworthy after having been in operation for such a long time. It also has news articles about it.

The other reasons I don't want to do these articles is because of conflict of interest due to my personal involvement in all three BBSes, lack of time (I teach), and the fact that I can only contribute information from my own database (my brain). I am still in contact with people from ODS and a few from ToB. Finally, given the local nature of ToB as a single-line BBS, and the fact that there weren't lots of books and TV programs about BBSes, I would be seriously unlikely to be able to produce an article worthy of Wikipedia standards. Historically, this stuff is relevant, but the resources to back them up are just not easy to find, especially from overseas. Indonesia isn't what you'd call a reading country.

No worries about offending. I've been an inactive member for most of my time here due to time constraints as a teacher, and lacking resources to back up anything I might contribute. Thank you for taking the time to guide me!ReveurGAM (talk) 11:09, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

The European Globalisation adjustment Fund (EGF)

The European Union set up the European Globalisation adjustment Fund (EGF) in late 2006.

What is the European Globalisation adjustment Fund (EGF)? The opening of economies to international competition brings new opportunities in terms of competitiveness and the creation of high-quality jobs. However, trade openness can also have negative consequences for the most vulnerable and least qualified workers in some sectors and areas of the European Union. The European Globalisation adjustment Fund (EGF) is an instrument which provides personalised support to workers who have been made redundant as a result of trade liberalisation, so that they can either remain in employment or find a new job quickly. The EGF expresses the Union's solidarity in complement to the support provided by the Member States at national, regional and local levels. The Fund specifically and directly supports people, not companies or institutions, through active labour market measures such as: counselling; job search and mobility allowances; new ICT skills and other forms of training; entrepreneurial support, including micro-credits. Since 2007 the EGF has spent almost EUR 68 million to help over 15,000 workers in eight Member States to find new jobs. The workers supported so far had been previously employed in the manufacture of vehicles, of mobile phones, and of textiles and clothing.

What conditions will trigger assistance from the EGF? The fund is activated, upon a request introduced by a Member State, when one or more companies (national, multinational or SMEs) announce at least 1,000 redundancies either in an enterprise, or in a sector within a region, due to structural changes in world trade patterns. The Fund is designed to intervene in cases where the redundancies have a significant impact on a region or a sector and therefore there is an EU dimension in terms of scale and impact.

What does the Fund do? Since 1 January 2007, the EGF has been funding active labour market policies helping workers made redundant as a result of globalisation, for example through: • job-search assistance, occupational guidance, tailor-made training and re-training including IT skills and certification of acquired experience, outplacement assistance and entrepreneurship promotion or aid for self-employment, • special time-limited measures, such as job-search allowances, allowances to individuals participating in lifelong learning and training activities, • measures to stimulate in particular disadvantaged or older workers, to remain in or return to employment. It complements support provided by the employers and national authorities concerned in terms of active labour market policy measures. It does not fund passive social protection measures such as retirement pensions or unemployment benefits, which are the competence of the Member States. Member States who have successfully applied for an EGF intervention can also use EGF money for information and communication activities highlighting the role of the Fund in their interventions to support workers.

How does it fit in with other EU funds, like the structural funds? The EU Structural Funds, in particular the European Social Fund (ESF), consist of multi-annual programmes in support of strategic, long-term goals, and management of change and restructuring in the 2007-2013 period, with activities such as life-long-learning. The EGF is a response to a specific, European scale crisis; it provides one-off, time limited individual support geared directly to helping workers who have become redundant for reasons related to international trade.

Who is eligible to the Fund's support? The EGF is open to all persons who work legally in the EU. It operates under the principle of subsidiarity, and in a system of shared management between the Commission and the Member State. Responsibility for implementing the EGF lies with the authorities of the Member States concerned. The maximum amount available through the EGF is €500 million per year for the period of 2007 to 2013.

How is the EGF responding to the global financial and economic crisis? The European Commission proposed on 16 December 2008 that, in addition to its current scope, the Fund should be able to support workers made redundant as a result of the global financial and economic crisis. In addition, it proposes to reduce the threshold of redundancies from the current 1,000 to 500, to extend the period of eacyh case from 12 months to 24 months, and to increase its contribution from 50 % of total cost to 75 % (the rest being contributed by the Member State). This proposal is now being discussed in the Council and the European Parliament.

Further information: http://ec.europa.eu/egf —Preceding unsigned comment added by Antoine Mallia (talk • contribs) 16:53, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

It seems like you've already started this one, here. Sorry you didn't get timely feedback. I'll tag that article for a few needed improvements. If you'd like to bring it into conformity with our various styleguides, you'll find more information on how to do so at those tags. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:04, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi Moonriddengirl; thanks for your helpful comments. For me this has been a bit complicated but am sure that with some guidance I'll manage. I need to know how to change the bigger title as 'fund' should be written with a Capita F and not a small f. I also would like to know how to hyperlink key words like European Commission, European Social Fund and so forth. Thanks in advance for your help, Antoine —Preceding unsigned comment added by Antoine Mallia (talk • contribs) 16:20, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Project Magazine - New article

I hope that this is the correct forum to get some feedback on a possible new article. The article currently exists on my userpage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Offterrain

I know it's lacking a bit with sources (which are weak being online-only), but I'm not really sure any further sources exist. Also, referencing may not be done correctly. Any input is welcome, thanks.

Offterrain (talk) 01:39, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi. The article looks good, but I'm concerned with the lack of sources. I'm afraid that it may run into some trouble in not demonstrating that it meets notability. I'd like to suggest that you consider adding it as a section to Canadian Federation of Engineering Students, since it seems to be a publication of that body. Then a redirect could be made in article space pointing to that section, so that people seeking information on "Project Magazine" would be able to find it. If this is a solution that interests you and you need assistance in doing it, please follow the link after my name to my talk page to let me know, and I'll be happy to help. Otherwise, I'd suggest that you find a few more sources before moving the page to article space. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:42, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Moonriddengirl, thanks for your response. I'm going to see what I can do about getting more sources, otherwise I'll follow your suggestion to include it with the CFES page. -- Offterrain (talk) 22:16, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

The card game of Prefa

For some years, I have been playing the card game of Prefa - an excellent 3 handed game of bidding and suited contracts. When learning however, I could not find the rules of play. I believe it to be of Greek origin, and so this may make searching more difficult.

Wikipedia has no reference at all to it - a great pity !

I believe we could get the rules, and put it together for a good article ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickpet (talk • contribs) 12:43, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Nickpet, and welcome to Wikipedia. :) You may be able to do so, but the two primary points to remember here are that (1) you will need reliable sources to verify that this game meets the notability guidelines (shouldn't be a problem if it is a widely played game) and (2) Wikipedia is not a guidebook, so rules for gameplay should only be a part of an encyclopedic article. See Contract bridge, for example. Now, obviously, this is a goal, not a starting point. :) But you might want to follow in its lead and include information that can be found on its history and where it is played. If the article is only a list of rules, it may be nominated for deletion (see our deletion policy) as being off purpose. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:50, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the guidance. After reading the Contract bridge article, I see your point, and how the article is structured. I will have a think! Regards —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickpet (talk • contribs) 23:42, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

New Article - Robert Jolley

I was thinking about doing an article about the architect Robert Jolley (from Wigan) and is the "leading authority on Edmund Sharpe. He has also designed a few houses (including his own) and a Church in Wigan, of which there is no article either. What do you think? Im more than happy, and would enjoy writing about both. Opinions please. Thanks

Ruth04044 (talk) 21:01, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

• Do you have any links that show he's an authority. If I was to entirely trust your opinion, it seems like a solid article subject. - Mgm|^(talk) 11:08, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I'd second the recommendation for links showing he's an authority. To verify that he fits our biographical inclusion standards, you'll need to locate reliable secondary sources like newspaper articles, magazines, book references. "Robert Jolley" is not that uncommon a name, so I narrowed it down by including "architect" and came up with a few here, but they look like his notability might be local in scope. Of course, it's also possible that there's a ton out there I missed by narrowing the search. Perhaps you'd know. With the church, it also needs to meet guidelines for inclusion, basically requiring the same thing: reliable, secondary sources. If it is historically significant, it is more likely to meet those guidelines.

Before establishing the article, please search Wikipedia to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject under a slightly different name. Help:Starting a new page should give you all the guidance you need, but you might also look at Wikipedia:Your first article and Wikipedia:How to write a great article. Please consider taking a tour through the Wikipedia:Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. Good luck, and happy editing. :) --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:29, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Masahati Real-Estate Portal

Masahati

Masahati[1] from the Arabic word مساحتي pronounced [ma-saa-ha-ty] meaning "My Area". Masahati is a Start-Up[2] founded on February 26, 2008 and is to be launched to the public on the 26th of February 2009 in correlation with the National and Liberation day's of the State of Kuwait. Masahati is a Kuwaiti based Real-Estate Listings Information site that goes beyond the typical and explores the innovative. Founded by two young Kuwaiti entrepreneurs who felt that Kuwait lacked the tools to allow for readily available real-estate information from the ease of your home, while real-estate developers and owners lacked the tools for productive, efficient, and cost-affective business.

Service

Masahati was created from the bottom up to be customer-centric by providing reliable, accurate and on demand information to real-estate searchers who would also be the end customers of real-estate developers and owners who list properties. By providing quality service to searchers and revolving the business around the sites visitors Masahati has been able to revolutionize the real-estate industry within the region.

Groundswell Approach

Masahati customer centric model is well aware of the people and the power of the people. Listening, responding and interacting are key to running an organization from the ground up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iamnews (talk • contribs) 22 January 2009

Hello, and Welcome to Wikipedia! This particular article would be governed by the notability guidelines on companies. The rule of thumb here is noting whether the company has received significant or widespread coverage in secondary sources that are reliable and independent of the company (excluding company PR releases and information solely available on the company website—these sources may be used for additional information after notability has been established by secondary sources). All material must be attributable. The only source you've provided is a primary source. Are there multiple unrelated sources discussing this company?

If you are able to assemble necessary sources to assert notability, you may certainly create such an article, although if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends that you do not create or edit the article yourself, but instead consider proposing its creation at requested articles or at a related article or relevant WikiProject. If you do choose to write the article in such a case, you'll want to be particularly careful to approach it neutrally and without undue promotion. For example, who says that the company has "revolutionize"d the industry by "providing quality service"? We can only include text like that if quoting a reliable source. We can't include it without attribution and we can't attribute it to the company, as that would be promotional. There are several other passages of concern in this regard, including the final section.

Before establishing the article, please search Wikipedia to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject, maybe under a slightly different name. Help:Starting a new page should give you all the guidance you need, but you might also look at Wikipedia:Your first article and Wikipedia:How to write a great article. Please consider taking a tour through the Wikipedia:Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. Good luck, and happy editing. :) Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 18:17, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

vendor vs vender

When I am uncertain of spelling or definition of words I automatically do a search in google and I ALWAYS get directed to wikipedia which I love! After having a discussion on which spelling for vendor/vender was correct with a colleague, I realised that I got my answer from another source informing me that one was the British spelling and the other was the US spelling, but of course I couldn't be certain because this information did not come from you. Having said that, I can't be sure this information is correct or whether the spelling are used in different contexts. Anyway, thought this might be an interesting thing to you guys to have on your website as I am sure there are a TON of words like these.

Thanks, Alex 209.240.44.42 (talk) 16:39, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Alex, and welcome to Wikipedia. I'm glad you like it; I do, too. :D According to one of our sister, Wiktionary, "vender" is an obsolete spelling of vendor. They don't seem to cite sources for verification the way we do, so I don't know where they got that. (If you use Wikipedia a lot, you probably already know that the colored text are all links.) This book agrees, indicating that "vendor" is British and "vender" American English.

When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).

It is a good idea, though, to provide a source for your information. Information that isn't sourced can be removed and often is if other contributors aren't sure of its accuracy. If you wanted to add that fact to the article vendor, you might cite it to that book by using a "citation template." In this case, you would paste the following after your addition: <ref>{{cite book |title= Say What You Mean: A Troubleshooter's Guide to English Style and Usage |last= Trask |first=R.L. |year=2005 |publisher=David R. Godine |isbn=1567922635 |page=280 |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=GJLrY5bg3zIC&pg=PA280&dq=vender+vendor+usage&lr=&client=firefox-a }}</ref>. This would give you a footnote, which would look like this: Trask, R.L. (2005). Say What You Mean: A Troubleshooter's Guide to English Style and Usage. David R. Godine. p. 280. ISBN 1567922635.. That allows other readers to verify where the information came from.

If an article is incomplete and you need assistance finding information, we also have a "reference desk" where volunteer researchers may be able to help you: Wikipedia:Reference desk. It's requested that you check first to see if you can find it on Wikipedia yourself, but if you can't, they might be able to find out. :)

Thanks for bringing up a potential improvement to an article. I'll leave it to you to make the improvement yourself. And, again, welcome to Wikipedia. :) --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:28, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

DNA

Certain genetic factors are linked to inheriting ancestrial disese or chronic illness' e.g A virus can distort or weaken the immune system. Anglow Saxsons have been linked to RH arthritis in some familys.They have found this in blood tests which has a genetic code marker B/27, but not all will turn to arthritis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ALIEN123456789 (talk • contribs) 10:47, 24 January 2009 (UTC)