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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2015 KNVB Cup final/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 26 October 2024 [1].

2015 KNVB Cup final

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Nominator(s): Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 10:28, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

3 May 2015, one of the best days of my life. My favourite (local) football club winning something for the first (and thus far, only) time. Travelling down to Rotterdam with several family members, seeing people on viaducts waving and cheering on the passing buses with us fans (even ca. 100 km down the route), and the incredible (but tense) atmosphere in the stadium, is something I won't forget. There's one image in the article, which is not mine, as the few pictures I took were all a bit blurry ;) I've used online and newspaper articles to try and give a comprehensive (and of course unbiased) view. All comments are appreciated! Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 10:28, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Placeholder

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Image review

Comments

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  • "Groningen reached the final of the competition once before" => "Groningen had reached the final of the competition once before"
  • "PEC Zwolle began, as a professional side and defending KNVB Cup champions, their campaign" => "As a professional side, defending KNVB Cup champions PEC Zwolle began their campaign"
  • "In the last minutes of the match" - I think "In the closing minutes of the match" works better
  • "VVV equalised, but the goal was disallowed" - if it was disallowed then they didn't equalise. I suggest "VVV appeared to have equalised, but the goal was disallowed"
  • "it was the sixth time it happened since 1956" => "it was only the sixth time it had happened since 1956"
  • "It was the seventh time both sides met" => "It was the seventh time the two sides met"
  • "Groningen also entered the 2014–15 KNVB Cup in the second round" would suffice, I think
  • "found the back of the Vitesse net in the rebound" => "found the back of the Vitesse net on the rebound"
  • "showed his squad video messages of their family members before the match" => "showed his squad video messages from their family members before the match"
  • "Jans was hailed as a "motivator"" => "he was hailed as a "motivator"" (avoids repetition of his name)
  • "Groningen were already 1–0 down after two minutes when Romário scored, the fastest goal in KNVB Cup final history" - this is slightly confusing as a standalone sentence. I suggest joining it to the previous sentence as "reached the final once before when they lost 4–1 to PSV in 1989;[25] PSV's Romário scored after two minutes, the fastest goal in KNVB Cup final history"
  • "played each other once in the Eredivisie during the season, with Zwolle winning 2–0 at home" - is the league not a double round-robin? Why did they only play each other once?
  • Jans image caption needs a full stop
  • "but played since 2012 for PEC" => "but had played for PEC since 2012"
  • "Van de Looi was pleased for the fans that they claimed the club's first major honour" => "Van de Looi was pleased for the fans that the team had claimed the club's first major honour" (avoids the suggestion that it was the fans who had claimed it)
  • That's what I got! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:16, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:31, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

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I've copyedited; let me know if you disagree with any of the changes I made.

  • "stated that Van de Looi mainly formed his plans on the quality of his players": a bit vague; can we be clearer about what Van de Looi meant by this?
  • "RTV Noord stated that Groningen were more nervous than PEC; several minutes later Groningen grew into the game". Suggest "Early in the game the RTV Noord coverage suggested that Groningen seemed more nervous than PEC". I don't think the second half of the sentence is worth keeping; this is a live blog, not a post-match analysis, and "grew into the game" is vague.
  • "Antonia reached Juninho Bacuna, but he misjudged the ball": "reached"? What is this saying?

That's all I have. It's hard to get this sort of article to flow smoothly, with engaging prose, but I think this gets there. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:22, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • Thank you very much, Mike. The copyedit definitely is an improvement, IMO. I also tried to reword/clarify the three sentences mentioned here. I sometimes found it hard to find the right English words for some Dutch text in the references, but I'm glad it gets there:) Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 14:47, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fixes look good; support. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:44, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment

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Going into five weeks and this nom hasn't reached a consensus to promote. I'm adding it to Urgents, but unless it receives several further in depth reviews over the next week or so it's liable to time out. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 18:33, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs - I understand this nom still needs a source review and probably another content review, but with 2 supports and 0 opposes, it is closer to a promotion than to being archived, right? Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 06:43, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Edwininlondon

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Prose looks good. Just a few nitpicking comments:

  • Zwolle were appearing --> I don't see any source referring to PEC Zwolle as Zwolle. I find it jarring how it jumps between Zwolle, PEC, and PEC Zwolle. I would do what the sources do, use PEC Zwolle at the start and then just PEC
  • Groningen, founded in 1971, --> good, but I would then also give a founding year for PEC
  • had played each other once in the Eredivisie during the season to date --> I would swap the order of this 2014-15 info with the historical "marked the third meeting between both in the KNVB Cup" bit in the next sentence. Just to keep all historical info together, and end on the current season
  • Groningen's game". --> Groningen's game." as per MOS:INOROUT
  • "We hebben hem!" (lit. 'We got him!') --> I don't think that is right. Because "hem" is likely referring to "de cup" or "de beker", both masculine nouns, the literal translation really is not "him"/ It just translates into "We got it!"

Sources: formatting looks good. However, a few questions:

  • fcgstats.nl seems to be a fan site, not quite matching the reliability standards needed for FA, or am I wrong?
  • fcgroningen.nl seems to be the club web site. Do you have a less biased source?
  • same for peczwolle.nl
    • I think I've used PEC's and Groningen's websites for objective information only (e.g., for Groningen: "Groningen, founded in 1971" or when mentioning the 4th round tie v Volendam; for PEC: their history in the cup or "Botteghin, the Groningen defender, played for PEC from 2007 until 2011"). However, if you insist that I need to replace both sources, I will do that. Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 12:51, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Anderson Independent-Mail. 27 April 2015. p. 12 --> I could not find this and am a bit puzzled why this source would be right for substantiating the league table standings

That's all from me. Edwininlondon (talk) 08:34, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for the comprehensive review, Edwin! I've addressed your comments and left some comments above. Cheers, Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 12:51, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Edwininlondon - replaced the sources mentioned above. Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 19:29, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I did a spotcheck: 27abcd 42abcdef 45 46 47 all check out. I Support on prose, sources, comprehensiveness. Nice work. Edwininlondon (talk) 05:40, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

TRM

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  • A shame there's no lead image for the infobox? Not even of the stadium? Would be better than the blank we have right now.
  • Someone should write a featured list about the List of KNVB Cup finals.... just my opinion...!
  • "scored 22 goals, the most goals of all" repetitive "goals", probably "the most of all" is fine.
  • "PEC were considered the slight favourites ..." re-establish the context here now you've talked about other stuff, so "PEC were considered the slight favourites to win the final"...
  • "was subbed on " still think that "subbed" is colloquial and not encyclopedic in tone: substituted.
  • "by three goals to two with goals " grim repeat of goals.
  • "club HHC Hardenberg at home" where is home?
  • "HHC headed against " so you mean the entire club headed the ball??
  • "added a second and third goal" maybe "added two more"
  • "meeting in Venlo" link Venlo.
  • "appeared to have equalised" sounds like a newspaper report.
  • "against Eredivisie club" I think this is first mention of the league structure, so what's the context for this match-up?
  • "semi-final of the KNVB Cup for the third consecutive year" this is good background for the lead of a FA.
  • "whilst at PEC.[7] PEC were" whilst? archaic. PEC... PEC. repetitive.
  • "neither side found the back of the net" sorry, this is an encyclopedia, neither team "scored".
  • On my screen the next section's right-hand table is crushing the text. Consider using a "break" piece of code.
  • "played in Barendrecht" why not link the location and provide context for its geography?
  • "a convincing 8–1 " no need for "convincing"
  • "finding the net" do you mean scoring?
  • "found the back of the Vitesse net on the rebound" scored from the rebound.
  • "the semi-final of the .... [16][17] The semi-final," repetitive.
  • "without key players" opinion.

Takes me to Pre-match. Ping me once this is dealt with. The Rambling Man (Been a while, I know......) 22:28, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: great to see you here again. Thanks for taking a look, I addressed your comments. Cheers, Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 11:55, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, glad to be back in the thick of brilliant football articles! So, progressing from my previous comments:

  • "the 1928 final" notable enough to be linked, even if red?
  • "against RCH and" I would expand this per common name.
  • "the 1977 final" per above, link, even if it's red.
  • " in 2014, defeating" this is an easter egg link, perhaps link something like "2014 final" instead of just the year.
  • "by Dagblad van het Noorden" perhaps "by Dutch newspaper Dagblad van het Noorden" to help those of us who haven't heard of it!
  • "in 1989;[25]" similar comment re: Easter egg linking a bare year.
  • "football player" why not "footballer"? And what's the context for this guy who's a red link, is his opinion notable?
  • "Drost scored eight goals and registered seven assists..." reads odd to me because the season is still ongoing, perhaps a subtle reword to make it clear that it was their record in the division at the point of the final.
  • "Groningen scored more goals" -> "Groningen had scored more goals" as the competition was still going.
  • "home team, they wore their home kit and were awarded the home" home home home.
  • "6 pm" seem to remember there should be a non-breaking space between 6 and pm and actually pm should be p.m.
  • Any more info on Richard Liesveld, like had he refereed these clubs or this kind of final previously?
  • "in his own goal...." how?
  • "of the box," maybe "penalty area" just to be clear to our non-European readers. I know you mentioned box earlier, perhaps there too.
  • Noted that "header" isn't linked first time in the article.
  • Ditto for "foul".
  • "seemed more nervous than" perhaps quote them directly as this is a bit journalistic.
  • Link for "dribble"?
  • "dribbled through the PEC defence ... dribbled through" repetitive...
  • "replaced" could link substitution. Better here than the later link for "substituted off".
  • "Antonia crossed the ball" quickly repeated, boring prose.
  • "Several minutes later" odd thing to say in a match report.
  • "stoppage time" link?
  • "who misjudged it " poor wording, what actually happened?
  • "PEC's Nijland had a goal disallowed a minute later" how, why?
  • "Groningen red ones as the victors. Groningen captain Kieftenbeld was handed the trophy by former Groningen" Groningen Groningen Groningen.
  • "Post match" normally hyphenated.
  • "1933–34 KNVB Cup" link.
  • "winning the Cup" not formal name so no need to capitalise Cup.
  • "1.9 million" non-breaking space between 1.9 and million.
  • No photo of the mural?

That's it for a first pass. The Rambling Man (Been a while, I know......) 21:54, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: I addressed your remarks and left some comments above. Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 07:04, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

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Seems like most sources here are in Dutch, to be expected. What makes https://www.oost.nl/, https://www.elfvoetbal.nl/, https://www.pzc.nl/, https://www.vi.nl/, https://www.ad.nl/, https://www.voetbalzone.nl/, https://www.rsssf.org/ and https://www.destentor.nl/ reliable sources? Formatting seems mostly consistent. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:21, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jo-Jo Eumerus;

Drive-by comments

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  • The article is titled "2015 KNVB Cup final", the first line of the infobox is "Event: 2014–15 KNVB Cup". I assume that it is the infobox which needs amending?
  • "losing to PSV in 1989." Could we have PSV in full at first mention in each of the lead and the main article. Thanks.

Gog the Mild (talk) 19:38, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Gog the Mild, I amended the first line of the infobox. About PSV, I changed it to PSV Eindhoven (also the name of the article), to have it presented in a similar manner as PEC Zwolle, abbreviation first followed by the place name. Hope that's alright. Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 19:56, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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