Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2020 FA Cup Final/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 29 August 2021 [1].

2020 FA Cup Final

Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:58, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

World's oldest association football cup competition, the 2020 edition, notable for 0 fans (thanks COVID), a red card, a penalty, and one side ending with nine players. Classic stuff. As ever, I'll be working my socks off to address any and all actionable concerns raised here and thanks in advance for your time and energy. Also, thanks to Anarchyte who gave the article a good going-over at GAN, always appreciated. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:58, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Image licensing looks OK (t · c) buidhe 15:06, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

Spotchecks not done. Version reviewed.

Seeing some formatting inconsistencies - for example sometimes BBC Sport is wikilinked and italicized, and sometimes neither. Please check throughout.
I found one. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:59, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
FN20 is missing author
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:59, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
FN21 is missing date. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:31, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:59, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria thanks. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:59, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Lee Vilenski

I'll begin a review of this article very soon! My reviews tend to focus on prose and MOS issues, especially on the lede, but I will also comment on anything that could be improved. I'll post up some comments below over the next couple days, which you should either respond to, or ask me questions on issues you are unsure of. I'll be claiming points towards the wikicup once this review is over.

Lede

Heads Up FA Cup Final - now, maybe pedantic, but surely it's still the 2020 Heads Up FA Cup Final
No, according to official sources, the year wasn't part of the formal retitling. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:56, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Football Association Challenge Cup - our article is at FA Cup, so probably no need to state the full name. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:34, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We've gone round this buoy a few times, and it was the only solution which spelt out Football Association before using the FA initialism, so I'm okay with it, because after all, it is factually correct. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:56, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I feel the second para is small enough it could be merged into the first. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:34, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Horses for courses, but no problem. The idea was one para for "pre-match" one for "match" and one for "post-match". But merged, as it's no skin off my nose. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:56, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think even a small background as to how the teams reached the final is suitable, even if it's just who they beat in the semi-finals. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:34, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Added semi-final oppos into lead. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:56, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Christian Pulisic gave Chelsea the lead after five minutes from close range - I feel like we could say "Christian Pulisic gave Chelsea the lead after five minutes, after he scored from close range" and then have the second goal as a new sentence. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:34, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't like your suggested prose as it quickly repeats the use of "after". The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:56, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
How about ""Christian Pulisic gave Chelsea the lead in the sith minute, after he scored from close range"? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:19, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, some minor adjustments there. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:58, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I know Man of the match is often down to the broadcasters, and can change. The only source I can see for this is the BBC one - is there an official FA source to confirm they also see him as the MOTM? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:34, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Man of the match used to be that way but no longer. I can't see any official sources with it, perhaps you can help? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:56, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The match was broadcast live on both BT Sport and BBC; - just in the UK, right? I'm sure DAZN have rights somewhere. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:34, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Clarified. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:56, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Prose

I think a vague explaination that Premier League teams get a bye to the third round would be helpful. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well it is already stated that they don't enter the competition until the third round. I'm not sure what more you'd like to have explained in this specific article? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:01, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Arsenal played Premier League side Manchester City, the FA Cup holders - I generally prefer "defending champion" to holders. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Both are interchangeable though, right? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:01, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The two finalists share a London derby rivalry. - this feels a bit like a throwaway, could do with expanding Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Added a bit. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:01, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
2018's 1–0 win over Manchester United - is it right to have 2018's? That feels wrong. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Reworded. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:58, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Before 2020's final, Arsenal's 13 FA Cup wins was a record - maybe "Arsenal's 13 FA Cup wins was the most by a team until that point". Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Reworded. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:58, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Both sides adopted a 3–4–3 formation. Aubameyang captained Arsenal; César Azpilicueta captained Chelsea - I feel like two sentences is overkill, could merge Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Reworded. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:58, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Pulisic. Pulisic Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Tweaked. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:58, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Dived the wrong way - wrong direction. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Tweaked. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:58, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Whilst carrying the trophy to his team before its formal lifting, Aubameyang dropped the cup and the base - from what I can tell, and what I remember from the event, the cup was made in two parts, so he didn't exactly drop it, more that he didn't know it came apart and dropped the bottom half. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
27 seconds into the source there you'll see he dropped both parts. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:58, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments

Additionally, if you liked this review, or are looking for items to review, I have some at my nominations list. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:26, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lee Vilenski thanks for the comments, sorry for the delay in getting onto them, let me know if there's anything else to address. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:58, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Amakuru

I will to a full review on this once Lee is done with his, I think, to avoid overlap. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 15:37, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm all but done Amakuru, so feel free. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:52, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, Amakuru, Lee Vilenski, I wasn't even WATCHING THIS PAGE! Who knew. I'm sorry, I'm away with work tomorrow and at Trent Bridge for the clicket (although it's gonna rain) Thursday, BUT I WILL DO MY BEST. Even if it's on the train home from Nottingham.... Apologies for not even noticing your love. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:21, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- - No worries, take your time friend. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 06:27, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Amakuru, when you're ready. Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:49, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Gog the Mild: ah, sorry this had completely slipped my mind. I'll hopefully get on to it today or tomorrow. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 11:37, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru or the next day...?! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:14, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, something like that! I need to drag myself away from the Main Page errors rabbit hole... — Amakuru (talk) 13:16, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

It says "the Football Association" here, but down in the Background section it's "The Football Association". Make consistent.
"it was the 139th final of the Football Association Challenge Cup (FA Cup) and the showpiece match of English football's primary cup competition" - not much of that seems to be in the body, and is hence uncited.
"representing the Cheshire Football Association" - not sure this detail is really needed in the lead?
"The match was officially named the Heads Up FA Cup Final" - you said this already in the opening sentence; I'm not entirely sure how to reword it though while still incorporating the detail that the FA gave it that name in conjunction with William, so maybe it's OK! A link to The Royal Foundation#Heads Together might be useful here too.
"Arsenal had qualified for the final after beating" - not sure this needs to be in the past perfect continuous tense... could just say "Arsenal qualified for the final by beating..."
"after he scored from close range" - would prefer "when he scored from close range", as I tend to think scoring a goal and taking the lead happen simultaneously rather than one following the other.
"and received the trophy on the pitch and not..." - two ands in close proximity to each other sound a little jarring. Maybe reword slightly.
Possible improvement: "on both BT Sport and BBC" -> "by both BT Sport and the BBC" and then change "the coverage by the latter" to "the latter's coverage"
"making it the season's most watched football match in the UK" - does this mean for a football match in the UK, or does it mean by UK viewers?
"winning the match after a penalty shootout" - same as above, maybe "through a penalty shootout" or "with a penalty shootout"
"penalty shootout" - there is inconsistency here, as some places in the article say "shootout" while others say "shoot-out"
All addressed. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 16:59, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Route to the final

General point: we know that the final was delayed by three months due to the Covid pandemic, but it's not clear which, if any, of the route-to-the-final matches were delayed. (I also can't recall this detail myself, presumably some were played as scheduled, while others were deferred when the season was postponed in March)
Yes, but I'm not sure that's particularly relevant to this article. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:00, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"against EFL Championship side Leeds United at their home ground, the Emirates Stadium" - this seems slightly confusing, as the "their" could refer to either Arsenal or Leeds.
"Arsenal took the lead in the 55th minute after Reiss Nelson scored" - the "after" thing again. Look for similar cases in the rest of the article too.
crossbar / bar - maybe use one term throughout. And is there a link? I suppose not.
"In the next round Arsenal were drawn" - generally there are commas after opening phrases like this one.
"In the quarter-finals" ... "In the semi-final". Consistency of singular/plural.
"hooking the ball into Arsenal's net" - slightly unusual terminology there. Glossary of association football terms doesn't mention anything about "hooking", and those unfamiliar with football might not understand what's meant.
"before Ross Barkley struck from close range after another Hudson-Odoi shot was saved" - I'm not made keen on these before ... after constructs. It raises the question of whether the last-mentioned event was earlier or later than the first-mentioned event. I know that's obvious, but still...
"Hull City ... Hull City ... Hull" either use Hull on all but the first mention, or Hull City throughout.
Link Header (association football)
"Willian put the home side ahead after 13 minutes, when Liverpool goalkeeper Adrián failed to gather Willian's 20 yards (18 m) shot" - slightly odd wording here. Did Willian follow up on his own shot?
All addressed bar the "general point" The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:49, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Background

"one another" - [2] suggests that "each other" might be preferred by some grammarians when there are just two entities under discussion. It is not a hard-and-fast rule though, so up to you whether to change this or not.
"Before the 2020s final" - presumably "the 2020 final"?
"London's Wembley Stadium" - perhaps give the location of the stadium on the first mention rather than here?
"he became the first man..." - "the first person" would probably be better, assuming there haven't been any women who refereed two finals in the intervening period.
"Wolverhampton Wanderers" - not mentioned before, so link. And if we're naming Chelsea's last opponent here, then also name Arsenal's.
All done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:53, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

First half

"at Wembley Stadium" - we already know from the previous paragraph that it was at Wembley.
"front post" - terminology which could be tweaked, clarified or linked for the uninitiated
"Azpilicueta brought Aubameyang down as Aubameyang ran in on Chelsea's goal" - a tad repetitive, with two Aubameyangs
All done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:56, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Second half

"James' shot was off-target" - the MOS suggests "James's"
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:56, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Post-match

"who played for both Arsenal and Chelsea" - unlike earlier, I think a "had" would be useful here, to indicate that he wasn't playing for both clubs at the time of the match.
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:56, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's about it. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 16:10, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Amakuru thanks as ever for your review. I've addressed (where suitable) them and commented otherwise above. Let me know if there's 'owt else. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:56, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nice one, thanks TRM. I was curious about the timings of the quarters and semis relative to the covid break, so perhaps our readers would be too, but no biggy. Happy to Support. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 19:09, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Girth Summit

Not much from me. Please consider the following:

General comment: Both teams seem to have started in the '3rd round', which is a bit confusing for the football illiterate like me - is it because they're in the Premiership? Would it be worth spelling that out?
Done with a nice FA rules reference. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Route to the final: "Arsenal took an early lead when Bukayo Saka struck the ball past Bournemouth goalkeeper Mark Travers after five minutes." There are two prepositional phrases there, both using prepositions of time (...when Bukayo..., ...after five minutes.) I find that slightly jarring - could it be changed to something like "Arsenal took an early lead when Bukayo Saka struck the ball past Bournemouth goalkeeper Mark Travers in the sixth minute."? (That might require a slight change to the next sentence, which could have 'after 25 minutes')
Reworded. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
First half: "Mount passed square to Giroud;" what does 'passed square' mean?
Jargony, yes, removed. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
First half: "...before the match was paused for a drinks interval." Drinks interval - is that normal? Was it exceptionally hot weather or something, I didn't know drinks intervals were a thing. If unusual, should it be explained?
They were commonplace during Covid but not so much now. Interestingly not enshrined in the rules I found above from the FA and only tabloid refs talking about it. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Shane there isn't decent sourcing - I'd have thought a change like that would have been talked about. Oh well.
Second half: "...but James' shot was off-target." Shouldn't this be James's, per MOS:'S?
Indeed. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Post-match: "Aubameyang dropped the cup and the base." Can we specify whether there was any damage?
I found no references to damage. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oh well.

That's about it - I expect I'll support once these have been addressed. Girth Summit _(blether) 15:13, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Girth Summit thanks for your review, much appreciated, I believe I've addressed and/or responded to all your points. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to support. Girth Summit _(blether) 23:00, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@FAC coordinators: with the customary three supports/image/source review in place, can I nominate another candidate please? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 07:45, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sure TRM, go ahead. Cheers, 10:48, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 00:32, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.