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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/AMX-30E

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 03:08, 29 September 2008 [1].

AMX-30E

edit
JonCatalán(Talk)
previous FAC (22:29, 6 September 2008)


I'm renominating this for FA. Unfortunately, at the end of the first nomination I had lost interest in continuing writing for Wikipedia, but I seemed to have rekindled my interest. I fixed the issues I thought were pertinent from the last FAC; some issues I didn't "resolve", since I didn't feel that they were correct. But, if they are brought up again this time I will respond. I have also done some copyediting with the article, and will continue to do so as the FAC continues. Thanks! JonCatalán(Talk) 21:27, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from lead by Giggy

  • I don't particularly like having a redlink in the first sentence... can you create it or remove the link?
  • "but also to reduce Spain's reliance on American equipment in its army" - "but also" --> "and"?
  • "Although the first AMX-30 tanks were acquired from France in 1970, production in Spain commenced in 1974 and ended in 1983." - maybe remove the "Although" and put a semicolon after "1970"
  • "It was Spain's first mass produced tank and developed the country's industry to the point where the government felt it could produce a tank on its own and open bidding for the future Lince tank in 1985, and offered Santa Bárbara Sistemas the experience which led to the production of the Leopard 2E in late 2003" - run on sentence. The two "ands" make it even more clunky. Needs splitting and rewording. Also, should "open" be "opened"?

Giggy (talk) 01:10, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks; I made the last three changes, and I will open an article on Santa Bárbara Sistemas tomorrow, when I have more time. JonCatalán(Talk) 01:39, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I believe that the company originally went by the name of Empresa Nacional Santa Bárbara, but when it was privatized at some point after the death of Franco it renamed itself to Santa Bárbara Sistemas. They merged with General Dynamics and are now known as General Dynamics Santa Bárbara Sistemas (what the article should probably be called, when I create it). Unfortunately, the company's website which has a short history of itself doesn't really specify these dates - http://www.gdsbs.com/web/frame.asp . I know when the company merged, but I'd need to scour through source material I have to see if the first name change date is mentioned anywhere. JonCatalán(Talk) 01:40, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, but one comment: do you have the names of the other companies that were involved in the production of the tank? It's mentioned in the lead section, but I don't see it anywhere elaborated on. That's my only gripe. Octane [improve me?] 23.09.08 1802 (UTC)
Second paragraph of the "production" section. :) JonCatalán(Talk) 18:57, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment A well written and referenced article, as always. However, in my opinion the article (especially the introduction) is a bit boring to pass criterion 1a. For example, the introduction focuses on the production history of the tank and Spanish industrial capacity. Compare with Panzer I introduction that focuses on combat history and performance characteristics - firepower, protection & mobility. Maybe the AMX-30E did not see combat (if so, this should be stated), but there is a performance comparison with the Leopard but this section was not very clear to me (relevance of the T-55?) and should be in the intro, in my opinion. I hope this helps to brings this to FA. Dhatfield (talk) 22:46, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks; I expanded the introduction a bit, and I hope it looks better now. I didn't delve too deep into the comparison between the AMX-30 and the Leopard 1, but I did mention that one was chosen over the other. In regards to the mention of the T-55, I changed it to "contemporary tank" since that is also supported by the text that it references. Hopefully, that sentence is a bit clearer and more relevant, now. JonCatalán(Talk) 02:27, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above comments (took another look atnd it all seemed good). Giggy (talk) 02:26, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • leaning support, some comments:
    • Still think you should put a short explanatory tag next to the "Designed/Produced 1974" part of the infobox, as it clashes with the other dates given. Just say (Spanish production) or something like that.
    • "However, both trade deals fell through" - I'm not sure if putting qualifiers at the beginning of a sentence is bad or not, but it sounds bad. Just state "Both trade deals fell through", and perhaps follow up with a statement that no AMXs are still in service (or if they still are?) to cap the lead?
    • "By 1960" - change to "In", as "by" suggests some sort of tank plan was in effect to phase in these vehicles, but that's not here or there.
    • "This agreement also laid" - redundancy
    • "Prior to the end of production of the first batch, on 27 March 1979" to "On 27 March 1979, prior to the end of production of the first batch, [...]"
    • "...without having to go through GIAT" - informal language. Reword to "without having to consult with GIAT" or whatever more formal term you want.
    • "Ultimately, a mixed solution named Tecnología Santa Bárbara-Bazán (Santa Bárbara-Bazán Technology) (or TSB) was chosen." Is this the name of the solution or the name of a company?
    • "However, the deal was canceled after José María Aznar was replaced by José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero as president of Spain—to seal the decision, the new Spanish government declared that Spain didn't even have enough AMX-30EM2s in working condition to sell to Colombia." Somewhat contradictory language used here. Perhaps just cut the "to seal the decision".

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 14:02, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Everything should be done. I tweaked the infobox, although I don't think it looks good, but I agree that it might be slightly confusing when the text says that France issued the first AMX-30Es in 1970. As the sentence says, Tecnología Santa Bárbara-Bazán was the name of the modernization package. Other than that, it should all be done. Thanks! JonCatalán(Talk) 00:10, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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