Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ashley Tisdale/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 18:59, 12 December 2009 [1].

Ashley Tisdale

Nominator(s): Decodet (talk) 22:51, 26 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because I felt it has the quality of a Featured Article, after eight months of hard working. It's well-written and well-sourced, as well comprehensive. The article has also a good image and also an informative infobox. To conclude, it has been improved a lot since the last FA nomination, back in July 2009. Decodet (talk) 22:51, 26 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No dab links or dead external links, images all have good alt text, and date formats appear consistent. Moved my comments and related replies to this nom's talk page to save space—all are resolved. --an odd name (help honey) 02:29, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Alt text done; thanks. Could you please expand the alt text for the lead image File:Emmazcamera187-2 crop.jpg, somewhat? "A brunette female in a black dress" doesn't do the image justice. Please see WP:ALT#Portraits for examples. Thanks. Eubulides (talk) 04:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I was the one who called it "good alt text", so I'll try. It shows her head, shoulders, and chest area, but I don'wanna sound weird talking about her chest. :) I'll get back to you. --an odd name 07:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Is this alt more like it? --an odd name 07:26, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, thanks, that's good, though I'd add "low cut" before "dress". Eubulides (talk) 07:42, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - Noted and done. --an odd name 07:48, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I ran a script to correct faulty WP:ENDASHes and WP:FN footnote placement; a MOS review is needed. Citations are incomplete (some publishers missing), and WP:ITALICS are not correct in all citations (journals, periodicals, newspapers are italicized, websites are not). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:34, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. I think all references are good now. Any other issues? Decodet (talk) 18:05, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - No issues. NW (Talk) 16:32, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In a quick read of the WP:LEAD, I found the claim "first female artist to debut two songs simultaneously on the Billboard Hot 100" to be literally incredible at first. I had to reread it three times to understand it well enough to believe it. I think it would be instantly believable if you added the specific week that they debuted to the sentence (probably the end of the sentence), but recall the lead should include no more detail than the main body.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:37, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. I added the specific week with a reference in the lead but shouldn't it be in the main body instead of the lead? Decodet (talk) 15:50, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Source comments. Everything fine, but go over the references and put in italics all the print media (and remove the italics from non-print media). RB88 (T) 12:07, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

- I guess I'm done with few I noted. I went over the references list twice an did not find anything incorrect. Decodet (talk) 18:55, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support. I peer reviewed the article and later made a few more comments at Decodet's talk page as a follow up. Since my concerns were all addressed there and no one else has come up with a reason to oppose, I don't see a reason not to support. One comment, though; standardize the wikilinking of publishers in the citations- For example, in current citation 19, the Washington Post is wikilinked but, in citation 20, Time is not. I like wikilinking these myself, but I'm not aware of a policy on this so do as you like. Liqudluck✽talk 04:13, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I forgot to wikilink Time. The other references with no wikilink is because it was already wikilinked previously in the text. Thanks for the support! Decodet (talk) 16:51, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. This article still needs some work, and still reads like a loose collection of facts without any real narrative flow. "She did this ... she did that ... she did the other ...". A few specific examples of problems:
- I'll read the entire article and correct it. It should be finished in few hours. Decodet (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - I did the best I could. I rewrote few sentences and switched few terms. Since English is not my first language, it was not easy for me. I hope it's OK after my edits. Decodet (talk) 18:32, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"She also performed several song as Evans in film's 2006 soundtrack." I've got no idea what that means.
- Done. Decodet (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"In 2006, she signed a record deal with Warner Bros. Records[8] and covered Wham!'s "Last Christmas", which was her first single in her Warner Bros. deal." Do we really need to mention Warner Bros. twice in one sentence?
- Done. Decodet (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"A 2006 three-song EP, He Said She Said EP was released to promote Headstrong." So what's Headstrong?
- Switched Headstrong for debut album. Decodet (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Entertainment Weekly labeled her one of film's breakout stars, they said her portrayal of the narcissistic Sharpay Evans makes "narcissism a goofy, bedazzled pleasure". Punctuation between "stars" and "they".
- Done. Decodet (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"At the age of three, Tisdale was discovered by her current manager Bill Perlman at a New Jersey mall." How do you "discover" a three-year-old girl without getting arrested for child molesting?
- Switched for "met". Decodet (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Tisdale went on to appear in more than 100 commercials as a kid ...". As opposed to as a pensioner? How could she appear as anything else? Is it not possible to be more specific?
- Sorry, I did not geot what you meant with that. Decodet (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"'Be Good to Me' was released as album's the first single in the fall 2006 ...". Eh?
- Corrected the sentence. Decodet (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"... she landed a JC Penney spot". So what's a "JC Penney spot"?
- Switched for "commercial" and wikilinked "JC Penney". Decodet (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The writing lacks variety. Of the six sentences in the final paragraph of the 2007–present: Career development section (should be 2007–present: career development btw) half begin "Tisdale ...".
- Done. Decodet (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"... and also executive produced the film". What does "executive produced" mean?
- Switched for "...and was also one of the film's executive producers". Decodet (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

--Malleus Fatuorum 15:55, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This was just a selection of examples. Fundamentally, the article is written as a series of loosely connected facts, without any real narrative flow. For instance: "Her elder sister, Jennifer Tisdale, is also an actress and her maternal grandfather, Arnold Morris, developed the Ginsu Knives." In what way are these facts related sufficiently to justify inclusion in the same sentence? --Malleus Fatuorum 19:33, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- In this specific sentence, it's cited some of Tisdale's famous relatives, that's the relation between the inclusion of these facts in the same sentence. I can try to rewrite it if you really think it's necessary. Decodet (talk) 00:13, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Mine is just one opinion Decodet, and I could well be wrong. Nevertheless my opinion stands; I do not believe that this article meets the FA criteria. --Malleus Fatuorum 00:19, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - ~~Do you know any FA about a celebrity (with a similar career to Tisdale's would be good) I can use as an example? I don't have any idea about how to make a good narrative here.~~ Decodet (talk) 00:30, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      - No, I'm afraid that I don't, but it's about making a story; not she did this and then she did that. --Malleus Fatuorum 01:05, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        It's ok. I've found some references. I've rewritten the lead so far and tomorrow I'll finish with the entire article. Decodet (talk) 01:22, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        I went through the entire article and rewrote several sentences and paragraphs. Now I think they have a good narrative flow, as required by User:Malleus Fatuorum. It was a hard work that took me few hours but I think it's done. I have to say I tried my best and I'm not sure if I can't do something better. I really hope everything is ok right now. Decodet (talk) 19:52, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose—not a professional standard of writing, per Malleus above. Too late to do a major fix; I suggest you bring it back in a month's time, shining new.

Comma glitch before "Guilty".
- Done. Decodet (talk) 15:15, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of covering half a sentence in blue—"West Deal, Monmouth County, New Jersey"—why not just West Deal, Monmouth County, New Jersey"? If the reader hits "West Deal", won't they get immediate access to links to the more general geographical entities?
- Done. Decodet (talk) 15:15, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Unlink "Jewish", especially as there's a specific link a few seconds later to the Jewish Community Center.
- Done. Decodet (talk) 15:15, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So Bill Clinton was president in the White House? They didn't force him into a tent on the lawn outside the Capital Building?
- With "At the age of twelve, Tisdale sang for Bill Clinton, who was then the president of the United States, in the White House", I meant that Tisdale sang in the White House, not that Clinton was the president in the White House. Is that confusing? I can try to rewrite this sentence. Decodet (talk) 15:15, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
First pic in "Career": may not be high-res enough, but if it is, please boost the size a little.
- Done. Decodet (talk) 15:15, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
More punctuation mess,[4].
- I think it's done. Decodet (talk) 15:15, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Redundancies such as "also" and "ever" in the 1996–2006 section. I see idle "alsos" all over the place. See

these exercises.

- I removed all the "ever" and some "also" I thought were redundant. Decodet (talk) 15:15, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Parts of it, such as "2007–present" are heavily blued out. Much of the linking is good, so why dilute with items such as Germany? Who's gonna divert to that article? Tony (talk) 14:30, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Decodet (talk) 15:15, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I'm not able to do a better writing here in the article. I'm not fluent in English yet. If the writing is the main problem, I guess I'll not be able to promote the article to FA, unless I have help. Decodet (talk) 15:15, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Malleus and Tony. I've made some slight changes to 3rd para of "Early life" section, but needs more. For instance, check the spelling of Cossete; how long was she in Les Mis; what part did she play in Annie, and did she stay for the entire tour? Just some examples of information that help to make the article seem a bit less choppy. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 16:29, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The main problem is that we don't know too much about Tisdale's early life. I've been looking for more information about Les Miserables and Annie for months, but all I find is already available in the article. Decodet (talk) 17:16, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Found this source, claiming that Annie tour lasted a year and a half but can it be can considered a reliable source? Decodet (talk) 17:22, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.