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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Battle of Saseno/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 3 May 2021 [1].

Battle of Saseno

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Nominator(s): Constantine ✍ 12:16, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Part of an ongoing effort dedicated to Venetian naval history, this article is about the destruction of a Venetian trade convoy by the Genoese, via a clever ruse, during the War of Saint Sabas. It passed GA and the MILHIST ACR last year, and I feel confident that it is quite complete and ready for its FA star. Constantine ✍ 12:16, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done. Version reviewed.

  • "The cost of the convoy's loss to Venice was estimated at 100,000 Genoese pounds.". The text gives this as the value of the captured materials and ships - not the total loss
  • Be consistent in how citations to notes are formatted
  • Many of the sources cited are quite old - what sort of searching has been done for more recent scholarship? Nikkimaria (talk) 20:21, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gog the Mild

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Recusing to review. I looked at this at ACR and suspect that you may be correct about its readiness. Let's see what I can find to nit pick at.

  • All entries in info boxes should start with an upper case letter.
  • Foreign language words, other than proper nouns, should use Lang templates, not just italics.
  • "near Saseno island off the coast of Albania". Why the lower case i?
  • "With its victories in the Battle of Acre in 1258 and in the Battle of Settepozzi in 1263". Delete the second "in".
  • "commerce raiding against the Venetian merchant convoys." I think this would read better if you deleted "the".
  • Can we have some in line background on that quote. Who was Camillo Manfroni and when was it written for example.
  • What is the copy right status of that quote?
  • "since the fall of the Latin Empire in 1261". A little more explanation perhaps? That is going to mean little to most readers.
  • "the spring trade convoy to the Levant now represented Venice's "main overseas trading enterprise". MOS:QUOTE states "The source must be named in article text if the quotation is an opinion" (emphasis in the original), which this would seem to be.
  • "In spring 1264, "in order to crush the Venetian enemies and to ensure the well-being and defend the Genoese sailing in different parts of the world" ". As immediately above.
  • "and had been built by public funds". I think you mean something like 'and their construction had been funded by public subscription".
  • "Grillo was forced to move to Porto Venere, at the southernmost extremity of Genoese territory, and there wait until the fleet was made ready; and he was also assigned four experienced sailors as councillors, with the added task of keeping an eye on his conduct, among them Ogerio Scoto and Pietro di Camilla." Recommend replacing the semi colon with a full stop.
  • "Coupled with news of extensive recruitment of mercenaries in Lombardy, this news worried the Venetian authorities". Is it possible to avoid using "news" twice?
  • "the usual sea lanes". I am not sure what you mean by this. Is it the same as 'trade routes'?
  • "Grillo quickly became aware of the Venetian fleet's moves". I think that some of the speculation on this could usefully be moved into the main article. It is not exactly tangential stuff. For example, I don't understand how news can have reached him of "the Venetian fleet's moves" faster than the fleet itself was moving. And what does "quickly" mean in this context?
  • I have got to the end of "Grillo deceives Barozzi" and have counted seven quotes in 1,200 words of prose - including the quotes. This seems to me to be pushing "While quotations are an indispensable part of Wikipedia, try not to overuse them. Using too many quotes is incompatible with an encyclopedic writing style ... It is generally recommended that content be written in Wikipedia editors' own words. Consider paraphrasing quotations into plain and concise text ..." past breaking point. It is normal to paraphrase sources into Wikipedia's voice.
  • "appears to have sailed slowly". Why would he do that? Regardless of his perception of threat.
  • Why do the Venetians have "armed soldiers" while the Genoese have "marines"?
  • Why were large ships with 40 armed men on board "on match" for other ships with 50? I assume the answer is in their being "swift and agile", but how did this translate into a combat advantage?
  • "valued at more than 100,000 Genoese pounds, an enormous sum for the period". Anything to put it into context? Maybe as a proportion of one state's annual income or something?
  • "altogether of all". One of these is redundant.
  • "the Venetians were deprived altogether of all commerce with the east for that year"; "to escort the previous year's returning convoy back to Venice". There seems to be a contradiction here.
  • "it was not finally ratified". What does "finally" add?
  • "coerced both to sign a five-year-truce". What happened at the end of the five years?
  • "the Genoese admiral may simply have availed himself of a network of agents along the coasts of Sicily". How would these hypothetical agents obtain intelligence on a fleet which never got within 500 km of them?

An interesting story, nicely told. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:29, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@FAC coordinators: Unfortunately it seems that the nominator hasn't been editing at all since the day of this nomination; unless someone is willing/able to take over the nom it may need to be archived. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:47, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

FunkMonk

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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