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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Brazilian cruiser Bahia/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 23:51, 31 October 2009 [1].

Brazilian cruiser Bahia

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Nominator(s): —Ed (talk • contribs) 19:42, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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Bahia was a Brazilian cruiser which served in both World Wars. Easily the most interesting—and oddest—part of her career was her sinking; depth charges aboard the ship were exploded by accidental 20 mm gunfire, sinking the ship within minutes. As you might imagine, there are not many sources on this ship, and the sources that I did get tend to frequently contradict, which made this a rather difficult article to write. I made attempt to address this within the article using notes, but further comments would be appreciated. Thanks for your reviews! Cheers, —Ed (talk • contribs) 19:42, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Specifications. I have checked the specifications quoted in the article against Janes Fighting Ships of World War I (Litho reprint of 1919 ed.). London: Janes Publishing Company reprint by Random House. 2001. ISBN 1 85170 378 0. and all match very closely save for Janes stating the endurance to have been 1,400nmi at 23.5kts and 3,500nmi at 10kts (as opposed the article stating 5,500nmi at 10.7kts). Farawayman (talk) 21:38, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I can't find where I got 5500nmi; the source I cited either removed it or I found it somewhere else. Either way, citing Jane's is fine by me. Can you add citations to the infobox for everything Jane's covers (on the theory that many citations are better than a few)? I'll add the full citation in the bibliography. Many thanks, —Ed (talk • contribs) 22:42, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Headbomb:

  • Should Brown-Curtis be Brown–Curtis?
  • I think 'Atlantic to Pacific theaters of war' could be wikilinked to something.
  • Parà-class is hyphenated, but Adventure class is not. Pick one style or the other and stick with it throughout the text.
  • Tyne yard → Tyne yard?
  • murdered → killed?
  • Could presidential palace be wikilinked to something?
  • Wikilinking stuff in "First World War, the Brazilian Navy was sent out to patrol the South Atlantic with French, British and American naval units" would make it better. Particularly the individual navies.
  • Should "Lucas Alexandre Boiteux" be wikilinked?
  • Wikilink "underwater mine"?
  • "The survivors of the blast had to endure four or five days of no food," → "The survivors of the blast endured four or five days of no food," seems better to me.
  • Wikilink "Robert Scheina"?

These are style issues mostly, and I don't feel like deciding for the author what is best for the article. I trust that these will be fixed or otherwise be addressed. Content-wise everything looks fine to me. Hence support. Headbomb {ταλκκοντριβς – WP Physics} 01:10, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: Kirk

  • I was reviewing the Scheina book, and I'm almost positive the reference is for Volume 2: The age of the professional soldier, 1900-2001 since the page# matches. My ISBN# doesn't match, so I'm hesitant to change it without checking first.
  • There should be some mention about the Bahia cruiser type changing over time - instead of just the one mention of scout cruiser at the very beginning. It never was comparable to a full cruiser, so I'd sprinkle in some light cruiser & as it became more and more obsolete, it was more of a destroyer.

Kirk (talk) 15:06, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    • It appears that they have the same ISBN for both of the volumes? Worldcat is probably mistaken. Either way, the OCLC is right, and if you have a copy of the book that says it is really a different ISBN, please add it.
    • The problem is that reliable sources don't remark on it outside what is already in the article: "Bahia was used extensively during for escorts and patrols, conducting 67 of the former and 15 of the latter[3] despite being labeled as "little more than oversized destroyers and relatively slow" by the United States Naval Institute's magazine, Proceedings.[19]" —Ed (talk • contribs) 17:00, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • References look good now. I was thinking of the sources you cited which I read that called the Bahia a 'Light Cruiser' as opposed to 'Cruiser' (Scheina, for one). Kirk (talk) 19:00, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • The term "light cruiser" wasn't around until the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty though. :-) Contemporary sources (ex. [2]) refer to her simply as a cruiser. —Ed (talk • contribs) 20:08, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Light cruisers, as in light armoured cruisers, were around prior to the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty, but the Bahia was based on a scout cruiser class instead of a light cruiser. So before the treaty it was a scout cruiser, after a light cruiser (and very small at that). Kirk (talk) 13:38, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Support: Farawayman

  • As requested above, I have added some specifications (coal) and aligned the endurance data with that of Janes. Citations added as well.
  • Re the Janes reference, Moore wrote the foreword and is not the author. I'm not too sure how that should be managed in the reference / citation. The Janes volumes that I have do not have a stated author.
  • The specification infobox section called "General characteristics" should perhaps have a note stating that these were applicable on commissioning, as after the 1920's refit I presume the specifications would have changed quite significantly.

Farawayman (talk) 18:01, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    • Thanks! Does Jane's happen to have armor specifications as well? I've found that Conway's doesn't always include all of the armor present on a ship...
    • re Moore - perhaps there was an editor listed?
    • Done. :-) Thanks, —Ed (talk • contribs) 20:08, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback:

  • Additional Janes specs:
    • Armour: Deck: 1.5" Conn: 3"
    • Weapon Traverse: Fwd: 2x4.7" Broadside: 5x4.7" Astn: 2x4.7"
    • Watertight compartments: 16
  • No editors listed, in any volumes. I think using "Janes" in the citation is more appropriate than "Moore"

Farawayman (talk) 21:00, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Loosmark

  • Under "First World War" could the phrase "Towards the beginning of the First World War" by tightened a bit? That's very broad when the first actual date you read is 26 October 1917.
  • Is "In the opening years of the ..." better?
  • You don't have refs in the lead, but maybe something for "also spelled Baia in some sources" to deal with the weasel word?
  • Are you working on her class' article? Seems like a pretty big red link.
  • Under "First World War" could the phrase "Towards the beginning of the First World War" by tightened a bit? That's very broad when the first actual date you read is 26 October 1917.
  • Is the use of the coordinate system in text normal? I honestly don't know.
  • I simply removed it; looking back, only one source spelled it that way.
  • If I can find more information, yes. Otherwise, hopefully the redlink will spur someone with more applicable sources then me to create a decent article.
  • Is "In the opening years of the ..." better?
  • I believe it is; see Battle of the Coral Sea, for instance. —Ed (talk • contribs) 03:14, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Loosmark and I both mentioned the type should be Scout cruiser prior to 1922, and after 1922 Light Cruiser (although it was so 'light' many sources still refer to it as a scout cruiser). Should we just go in and start changing 'cruiser' to scout/light cruiser? I don't feel like there was a consensus on this point, and nothing has changed.
  • I created the Pará class destroyer article based on Conway (although I haven't deal with the later Fletcher class destroyer-based version)- what do you think about doing the same thing for the two major red links at the top for Bahia-class-cruiser and its sister ship? I think this should be done prior to the FA approval, thoughts?Kirk (talk) 14:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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