Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/England expects that every man will do his duty

England expects that every man will do his duty

Self-nomination. Interesting article about an interesting subject. Neutrality 01:20, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• Support. Interesting, well put together. Comprehensive. zoney ███ talk 01:40, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• Lacks completeness; I can nothing but wonder why we have an article on this subject, why the quote is famous. It was frequently quoted, yes, but why was it quoted? [[User:Sverdrup|❝Sverdrup❞]] 02:16, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Second this objection. I know it's important, but why is it important? Answer to this would make a second half for the article - David Gerard 14:28, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• Very interesting and good article. The intro could use some help though to help the uninitiated reader. Without reading the article on the battle, my lack of history knowledge keeps me from knowing even what era this event took place. (I know, shoot me, I'm a science/math guy) Also, from the phrase "the British fleet closed with the combined fleets of France and Spain" I infer that is a military reference for the two opposing armies coming together to start the battle, but again I'm not sure. The addition of the flag codes make the article especially more interesting to me. A link to an article about the codes and a quick summary in this article would be great to explain their addition though. Something like ship flags or optical telegraph would be a good start. Is it known the flags shown in the article were the flags used, or were they proprietary, secret signals? The article on Popham doesn't say anything about the codes. - Taxman 17:56, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)
  • the two opposing armies I think the technical term for an army on a boat is a navy. Markalexander100 01:15, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
    • I think the technical term for boat is ship ;) Tagishsimon
      • to trump you all the correct term is fleet. Mintguy (T)
      • Tagishsimon makes a good point, but the technical name for a boat is "boat". Boats are used on rivers and lakes, are typically propelled by oars or outboard motors, and can accommodate maybe a few tens of people. Boats are what the Canadian Navy uses to impose sovereignty. The navies of Bolivia and Chad also rely on boats. Ships, on the other hand, would have no idea that they had just run over a boat. Denni☯ 01:46, 2004 Aug 20 (UTC)
• Shapely. concise. accurate. arresting illustrations. Wetman 01:53, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Ropers 00:53, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• Support. (I used to have a dog named Winston, and I told him this every night when we went walking.) Smerdis of Tlön 02:13, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

BRAHAHAHA!!! :-D Class, Smerdis, just class!! ;-) :-) Ropers 01:33, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• Support. [[User:Theresa knott|]] 13:35, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• Support. It would be better if the table of signal flags were reduced in width, to fit an 800pix monitor (either reducing size, or splitting onto two lines). Curiously the flags on the painting by Turner conflict with the description in the article, which suggests the Victory should be flying flags 1 & 6 during the battle. -- Solipsist 14:20, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • The Turner painting isn't intended to portray a single moment, but instead combines events from several times during the battle; see the more detailed caption to this picture in the Battle of Trafalgar article. Do you think this needs explaining at England expects that every man will do his duty too? Gdr 17:38, 2004 Aug 23 (UTC) (Note that it also shows the signal flying from the mainmast, when it should be the mizzenmast.)
    • Thanks for the explanation. An expanded caption would be too much, but I've copied your text (+ a little more) to the image description page, which is where you would have to go to be able to see the flags are wrong in any case. I hadn't spotted that the signals were on the wrong mast - that's even worse... Those artists eh - they wouldn't know a cannonball if it hit em... -- Solipsist 16:47, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• Comment: Very good article; recent changes have taken care of most of the problems. I think the article still needs something added to the end about the quote after the battle: Were Nelson's words widely quoted? Did people remember it? Were those words ever used again to try to inspire others in the future? If we can have at least a paragraph dealing with that, I will change this to an enthusiastic support. -- Infrogmation 15:08, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• Support. James F. (talk) 22:19, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• Support...but I started the article, so I guess my vote doesn't really count. I think the article needs to say up front how well known the phrase is - as an Englishman, I took this for granted. Then later on, expand on this - a quick google on "England expects" will give you an idea how widely used the phrase is. These days, it's mostly frequently used in a sporting context. Unfortunately, I have very little spare time for Wikipedia these days, hopefully somebody can write a couple of sentences on this. --Auximines 11:01, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• Still object. I made some of the above changes, but some still need to be answered by the author. Also, some of the claims in the article are so specific and authoritative, that they seem to require specific citation for their source. Specifically that the exact phrase is different from the one some of the recieving ships recorded and is on the monument. That needs some additional explanation. - Taxman 13:53, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)

I added a note about the evidence for the wording (Victory's log, accounts of Pascoe and Blackwood). It would be nice to quote the relevant extract from Blackwood's account. Gdr 10:51, 2004 Aug 24 (UTC)

Minor objection. It mention's Nelson's last words as Kiss Me Hardy and has a link to Wikiquote. As these words themselves are the subject of some debate, indeed some suggest his last words were something entirely different, the link should be to a Wikipedia article. Mintguy (T)