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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Fakhr al-Din II/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 18 January 2022 [1].

Fakhr al-Din II

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Nominator(s): Al Ameer (talk) 05:11, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Fakhr al-Din II, one of a long line of Druze chiefs from the Ma'n dynasty who far exceeded his ancestors in ambition and achievement. He became the governor and tax farmer of Mount Lebanon, Galilee and their ports and eventually much of the western Levant in the early 17th century. In the complex politics of his time, he was both an efficient tax collector and enforcer for the Ottoman Empire and an unprecedentedly autonomous and enterprising rural chief. Eventually his power became too much for the Empire to bear and he was crushed. Fakhr al-Din reinvigorated the ports of Sidon, Beirut and Acre by opening them to European commerce after a centuries-long hiatus and inaugurated the lucrative Lebanese silk industry. His most lasting legacy was the symbiotic union of the Druze and Maronites under his watch, which led to the precursor entities of the modern Lebanese state. Al Ameer (talk) 05:11, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

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  • Suggest presenting the family tree as a template rather than an image, to improve its accessibility and allow for inline citation
  • Could you point me to a recommended template? While I agree, my feeling is that there's too many people in this tree to fit into a template. Alternatively, I could add a template, in addition to this more comprehensive chart, showing only the ancestors of Fakhr al-Din. Al Ameer (talk) 19:49, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Ferdinando_i_de'_medici_12.JPG: source link is dead, missing a US tag
  • File:Emir_Fakhr_al-Din_and_Mustafa_Pasha,_Olfert_Dapper.png needs a US tag. Ditto File:Fakhr_al-Din_al-Maʿani,_Eugene_Roger.png, File:Emirs_Fakher_ad_din_II_%26_Bashir_II,_stamp.jpg
  • File:Boats_at_the_citadel_of_Sidon._Coloured_lithograph_by_Louis_Wellcome_V0049486.jpg: what is the copyright status of the original work?
  • File:Emir_Fakhr_al-Dīn_Statue_in_Baʻaqlīn.jpg: as Lebanon does not have freedom of panorama, this will need a tag for the original work. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:38, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Funk

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  • Link musket?
  • Link Ottoman?
  • Link Porte. I see it is linked at second instead of first mention.
  • "Ottoman efforts to tax and disarm the peasants of the Druze Mountain, who historically evaded taxes" Was there a religious angle to their persecution?
  • Since he is denoted "II", I'd expect at least a footnote stating who "I" was, and their relation?
  • "Fakhr al-Din was careful to present himself as a Sunni before the government." But didn't everyone know he was Druze?
  • Probably yes, but formally (officially) he presented himself as a Sunni. I have now added in the Origins section that Druze had to pretend being Sunni to obtain any official post so hopefully that adds more context to this. Al Ameer (talk) 03:26, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "redoubt at the Krak des Chevaliers" Add "castle" for clarity?
  • Link Janissarie.
  • "he relocated to the Palazzo Medici Riccardi" The article about the palace states it was only sold to the Riccardi family in 1659, so should it just be called "Palazzo Medici" here?
  • Link Spanish Hapsburgs?
  • "Afterward, Fakhr al-Din was sent to Constantinople. There, he was imprisoned in Yedikule, while his two sons were sent to the Galatasaray." Needs citation.
  • "while his two sons were sent to the Galatasaray." Were these his only remaining sons?
  • State when the Sidon image is from?
  • The very end of the article seems pretty empty, any imagery[2] that would be relevant there? Could show buildings he had built under "Building works" maybe?
  • Moved the picture of the Deir al-Qamar palace to Building works. Unfortunately, the palace in Beirut is no longer extant, and we have no images of the palace or the caravanserais of Sidon that he commissioned. We have images of Ma'nid constructions in Tyre but they were not necessarily built by Fakhr al-Din. May reintroduce them to article in a limited way (I relocated this section to Ma'n dynasty#Architectural works and legacy prior to the FAC). There is a good picture of the Khan al-Franj in Sidon, but this was not built by the Ma'ns, even though they are erroneously credited with it in popular narrative. Al Ameer (talk) 18:33, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • This Commons image[3] seems amusing, if we could find the original. It seems to be here:[4] And the book (Histoire des Druses, peuple du Liban) on archive.org also has an image of a wife[5], of his camp[6] and other interesting things. I can upload the images if they're useful, seems some of them are already on Commons but will questionable sourcing. FunkMonk (talk) 16:46, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regarding that first picture showing the sheikh with the pipe, this is actually a real sketch of Muhammad Turabay, the Bedouin chief and Ottoman governor of Lajjun in north Palestine. See the article cited here by Chehab, Hafez, which is devoted to the artistic representations of Fakhr al-Din. As for the wife, while this is an 18th-century artistic representation (not a sketch of his actual wife), I have no issue including it in the article. Same for the military camp. They are both useful illustrations in my opinion. I do not think we should include the pipe-smoking sheikh since this has been proven to be someone else entirely. Would you please upload them (wife and camp) or correct the sourcing information of their existing images (assuming they are from the same source)? Al Ameer (talk) 18:33, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, that's odd with the pipe pictures. I've uploaded the wife[7] (the version of it here[8]identifies her by name, not sure if it's reliable, don't know much French so can't determine what the book's text says beyond the caption), but it appears the camp image unfortunately isn't folded out in the archive.org scan, I'll see if I can find it elsewhere. It also appears that this image on Commons that is said to be him[9] is also from that book, but actually shows a Druze cavalryman:[10] Not sure what the context is in the book or if it's useful here, but it seems the caption on Commons should be changed at least. FunkMonk (talk) 01:25, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Seems the camp image is also plagiarised, from here[11], so probably not of use. Unless the emir mentioned is our subject, which should be doubtful? FunkMonk (talk) 01:25, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Look at that, good find. I might want to upload it for the Turabay dynasty article since they were grand princes, so-to-speak, of the Bedouin in Mount Carmel, the Jezreel Valley and around Jenin until 1697. The image was "issued" in 1717, but King Louis XIV reigned from 1643 to 1715. Very likely that this sketch dates between 1643 and 1697. The Turabays did maintain low-level diplomatic relations with the French and did not have Bedouin successors. Al Ameer (talk) 21:26, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Tell me if you need help with that, seems the version I linked is plastered with watermarks, should be possible to find a clean version. FunkMonk (talk) 01:31, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I probably will. Also, I just noticed your comments on the wife picture, I will look into it further and probably add it to the Marriages and children section. Al Ameer (talk) 06:55, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Usually, genealogical trees are placed at the end of the article, but not sure if there are really any conventions.
Don't personally think it could hurt, but is there much room left there? FunkMonk (talk) 01:25, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I guess not, will leave it out. Al Ameer (talk) 21:26, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and another large mulberry grove in nearby Hisah" Funny, a lot of my Lebanese family lives there, never saw it mentioned in an article (I created the village's article), hehe.
Cool! FunkMonk (talk) 01:25, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Venetian at first instead of second mention.
  • Link mulberry tree?
Seems a bit tangential, unless it was from the area? Here is an old picture of silk worms in Lebanon eating mulberry leaves[12], perhaps it would be more relevant. FunkMonk (talk) 01:25, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Man I've been looking for a picture like this. Was planning on a 'silk industry in Mt Lebanon' article. I added the picture here, and will use it in the article I'm planning if I ever get back to it. Al Ameer (talk) 21:26, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nice! FunkMonk (talk) 01:31, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Show one of the structures mentioned under Fortifications and troops?
Looks good! FunkMonk (talk) 01:25, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Fakhr al-Din also had a white concubine" White seems a bit of an odd term to use for the context, what does the source say? Any nationality? Or say European?
  • Odd choice indeed, but this was the author's description. I would have changed it to European (was not uncommon for powerful Ottomans to have Balkan concubines), but “white” could also mean Circassian from the Caucasus (which was not uncommon either). If Caucasus could be considered European, then will change it. Otherwise, might be better to just write 'concubine'. Al Ameer (talk) 18:33, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Probably just keep as is, then. FunkMonk (talk) 01:25, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Will do. Al Ameer (talk) 21:26, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Janbulad family to Jumblatt under Assessment?
  • The Janbulads referred to here are the Kurdish clan of the Azaz/Kilis area. I will link Ali Janbulad#Family background until there is a separate article on the Kurdish Janbulads. The Jumblatts of the Chouf have been described by 19th-century local Lebanese historians as descendants of the Janbulads, and the family itself seems to claim it, but this is by no means certain and perhaps only a later legend. I have a few RS to work from and will expand on this subject in the Jumblatts article this week or next since you have brought it up. As of now, it would be a stretch to link them here. Perhaps after I add that material, it will make sense to plug in the Legacy section that the Jumblatts, perhaps the most powerful Druze faction of the Mountain and a major political player in local politics since the 17th–18th century, first settled there under the auspices of Fakhr al-Din's rule. Al Ameer (talk) 18:33, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, good to get that cleared up. FunkMonk (talk) 01:25, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "who may have it as his" May have had it?
  • "erroneously calls calls him "Yusuf"" Double call.

CommentsSupport by PM

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Great work with this. It is always great to see some diversity among Milhist FAC candidates, and Ottoman bios are definitely under-represented. He seems an important figure, so kudos for getting the article to this standard. A few comments:

Lead
  • in the 1620s–1633→in the 1620s and until 1633.
  • suggest the Sublime Porte (Ottoman imperial government)→Ottoman imperial government (Sublime Porte is an anachronistic figure of speech or metaphor that doesn't help the reader, as Porte has several meanings with regard to the Ottomans over time), needs consequent changes throughout
  • "took over northern Mount Lebanon, which was predominantly Maronite"
  • "by timely forwarding of tax revenue"
  • suggest "During a period when the empire was in a long economic crisis"
  • link Sidon and Beirut when they are first mentioned singly, and unlink later mentions
Origins and early life
  • nahiyas should be italicised as an isolated foreign word not in mainstream English dictionaries [13] per: MOS:FOREIGNITALIC. It is best to use template:lang ie {{lang|ar|[[nahiye (Ottoman)|nahiya]]s}} This applies to a number of Arabic terms used in the article, you will need to check each one in Merriam-Webster (if it is not in it, use the template to italicise it)
  • suggest avoiding the parens by rewording as follows: "Like other Ma'nids before him, Qurqumaz was a local rural chieftain in charge of a small area – known as a muqaddam. He was also a multazim of all or part of the Chouf – meaning that he was a holder of a limited-term tax farm known as a iltizam."
  • in a similar vein, suggest "were occasionally forced to pay the poll tax known as jizya which was reserved for Christians and Jews, and were the target of condemnatory treatises and religious edicts known as fatwas." (jizya and fatwa are in M-W)
  • suggest "In countering their incorporation into the Ottoman administrative and fiscal system, the Druze benefited from rugged terrain and possession of muskets, making it difficult to impose Ottoman authority in the Druze Mountain."
  • delete (d. 1702)

Down to Rise. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:52, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • suggest "When the veteran general Murad Pasha was appointed provincial governor of Damascus – known as beylerbey,..." (beylerbey is in M-W as beglerbeg)
No, just noting that it doesn't need the template as it is in M-W with a different spelling. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:51, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "upon his arrival toat Sidon in September 1593"
  • suggest "Murad Pasha reciprocated by appointing him the district governor – sanjak-bey<insert Note here with "called amir liwa in Arabic sources">, of Sidon-Beirut in December" (sanjak and bey are both in M-W) - why a reference to Turkish words, are they relevant to this period?
  • Revised. As opposed to the Arabic equivalents? I had not thought about it much, just assumed the Turkish terms were more appropriate and commonly used for Ottoman provincial and district offices. No strong preference though. Al Ameer (talk) 18:17, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • suggest "The Ottomans' preoccupation with the wars against Safavid Iran – between 1578 and 1590 and again between 1603 and 1618 – and the war with Habsburg Austria..."
  • Revised.
  • suggest "the Shaqif and Tibnin nahiyas in Jabal Amil – in current-day South Lebanon,"
  • why initial caps for "Emir"?
  • recommend "to drive Yusuf Sayfa Pasha – the beylerbey of Tripoli and local chief of Akkar, from the nahiyas of Beirut and Keserwan" the current formulation is rather confusing
  • suggest "Although the Druze were often in conflict with the Ottomans, in principle the community was loyal to the ruling Sunni Muslim states, in contrast with the Shia Muslims, who formed a large component of the population of the Safed sanjak."
  • suggest "He cultivated close ties with Safed's Sunni religious scholarly class, known as the ulema." (ulema is in M-W)
  • suggest "Among them was Khalidi, who was mufti of the city's Hanafis, the madhab – Islamic school of law – favored by the Ottoman state" (madhab is in M-W)
  • suggest "foreseeing that he would benefit from Khalidi's close ties"
  • suggest "careful to present himself as a Sunni beforeto the Ottoman imperial government" (if that is what is meant)
  • link Levant at first mention
  • "Although Khalidi held Fakhr al-Din's motive was to defend his territory" in what context did he do this? To the imperial authorities at the time, or in later writings etc?
  • perhaps link redoubt to National redoubt, as redoubt is really about the actual fortification, not the concept
  • what was Al-Burini" historian?
  • link Piastre
  • delete (d. 1660)

Down to First conflict with the Porte. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:01, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • "and promising him sanctuary in Tuscany in 1608 if he backed a future crusade" that he would get sanctuary in 1608, or he was promised it in 1608 for a future occasion?
suggest "After Janbulad's defeat, the Tuscans shifted focus to Fakhr al-Din, sending him an arms shipment originally bound for Janbulad. In 1608 they promising him sanctuary in Tuscany if he backed a future crusade." Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:58, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the Emir"→Fakhr al-Din, it is just potentially confusing, I wouldn't use it at all
  • link Anatolia
  • Janissaries→janissaries there is a later examples, and of unnecessary initial caps with janissary as well
  • what is a kethuda?
  • "presented to his predecessor withby Fakhr al-Din's son Ali in 1607."
  • comma after "the chieftain of Baalbek"
  • "with the Porte and revive their former power"?
  • headquarter→headquarters, headquarters is a plural noun but singular or plural in construction, ie it can take a singular or plural verb in conjugation (eg the headquarters is, or the headquarters are), but itself is always headquarters
Exile in Tuscany and Sicily
  • suggest Paul V→Pope Paul V for clarity, I wondered if this might be a new Tuscan ruler
  • suggest "Fakhr al-Din also began direct attempts to reconcile with the Ottoman government"
  • "in the former apartment of the late Pope Leo X" as it appears currently that there were two popes at the same time, whereas Leo X was long dead at this point
  • "Spanish Habsburgs"

Down to Peak of power. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:43, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • suggest widening the piping of Sidon Eyalet to include all of "separate eyalet called Sidon"
  • "of the Ma'nid-held fortresses of Shaqif Arnun and Subayba"
  • suggest "their support for Fakhr al-Din's former sekban commander Yaziji" as he has only been briefly mentioned before
  • recommend "The Emir thereafter sent his Maronite ally Abu Safi Khazen, the brother of his fiscal and political adviser and scribe – or mudabbir, Abu Nadir Khazen,..."

Down to Battle of Anjar and aftermath. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:20, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • "as the sanjak-beys of Ajlun and Nablus respectively"
  • "Fakhr al-Din was notified that the imperial government had reappointed his sons"
  • "is a fabrication" this is a pretty controversial statement. Do scholars other than other than Abu-Husayn agree?
  • delete (d. 1684)
  • 1625–1630 appears to use an emdash?
  • delete (d. 1716)
  • "to smoke out the Fakhr al-Din"
  • suggest "building hostel-warehouses – known as khans – for merchants there,..."
  • "Medicis" is used as the plural of Medici, but I understand that it should just be "Medici"
  • suggest "politically free Lebanon"→"free Lebanon politically"
  • delete (1590–1635)
  • suggest "except its arched doorway entrance with its alternating yellow and white bands of limestone – known as ablaq"
  • suggest "Fakhr al-Din had his government house – known as a saray – built in Sidon as early as 1598."
  • what is a qa'as?
  • "who may have used it as his original residence"?
  • Revised.
  • suggest "in an endowment – known as a waqf, administered from Damascus"
  • suggest "and a bathhouse – or hammam."
  • "mothered" is an unusual word, perhaps "gave birth to"?
  • delete the (b. 1587) etc
  • suggest "where Fakhr al-Din renovated a palace for her."

That's it. Mostly prose and MOS stuff really, a few substantive questions. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:25, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67: Thank you for taking the time to review this article in detail. I accepted your prose recommendations and I believe your other points have been addressed, save for Khalidi's defense of Fakhr al-Din's rebellion in 1606–1607. Will work on that shortly. Also, I used the '—' without spacing, instead of the ' – '. Is this the same thing for practical purposes, or is the latter preferred? --Al Ameer (talk) 18:17, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Great, given this is FAC I'll wait for an answer on the final point of two. As far as mdash vs ndash, they are effectively interchangeable as punctuation, but ndashes need spaces either side, mdashes don't. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:29, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Peacemaker67: I believe that bit has now been cleared up, but let me know. Otherwise, the dashes have been dealt with, courtesy of Ham II. --Al Ameer (talk) 18:08, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This is excellent, Al Ameer son. Minor point to address above, but supporting regardless. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:18, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I made that last revision. Thanks for the support! Al Ameer (talk) 05:28, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Drive by comment

Comments Support from Ham II

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What a fascinating topic! Here are my comments:

  • Note b is missing a full stop before the reference.
  • "in the 1620s and until 1633" – I find this hard to parse; "from the 1620s to 1633"?
  • "his army of sekban mercenaries, who after 1623 mostly replaced the local peasant levies on whom he previously depended" – I would replace "who" and "whom" with "which".
  • "Qurqumaz was a local rural chieftain in charge of a small area—known as a muqaddam." – Space instead of dash here.
  • "He was also a multazim of all or part of the Chouf—meaning that he was a holder of a limited-term tax farm known as an iltizam." → "He was also a multazim (a holder of a limited-term tax farm known as an iltizam) of all or part of the Chouf"
  • Not sure that it does; my order of preference here would be parentheses > dashes > commas, so I think "He was also a multazim—a holder of a limited-term tax farm known as an iltizam—of all or part of the Chouf" would be better than the current version. Also, it's strange that "multazim" still links to Iltizam, but "iltizam" later in the sentence is unlinked – I'd link the latter instead. Ham II (talk) 09:44, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The researcher Alexander Hourani notes Duwayhi's version is more credible" → "The researcher Alexander Hourani notes that Duwayhi's version is more credible"
  • No source for the quotation from the Chevalier d'Arvieux. "of wit infinitely male and harmonious voice" seems to be missing something; should this end "...and a harmonious voice"?
  • "Tax records indicate he had gained" → "Tax records indicate that he had gained"
  • "[When Murad Pasha was appointed] provincial governor‍—‌known as beylerbey" → "[When he was appointed] beylerbey (provincial governor)"
  • "[Murad Pasha reciprocated by appointing him] district governor‍—‌known as sanjak-bey" → "[He appointed him] sanjak-bey (district governor)"
  • Sorry; the text in square brackets (and in black rather than red or green) is simply to make the comment easier to read; I wasn't saying that "Murad Pasha reciprocated by appointing him" should be changed to "He appointed him". Ham II (talk) 09:44, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This Turkish title was called amir liwa in Arabic sources" – No full stop in this note, and no reference.
  • "government records indicate Fakhr al-Din's tax farms [...]" → "government records indicate that Fakhr al-Din's tax farms [...]"
  • As this comes in the middle of a list I think commas impair the readability here, I'm afraid. Again, my order of preference would be parentheses > dashes > commas, so I don't mind there being dashes here – but there should be dashes on both sides of the clause "in present-day South Lebanon", not only at the beginning as previously. Ham II (talk) 09:44, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the madhab—‌Islamic school of law‍—‌favored by the Ottoman state" → "the madhab (Islamic school of law‍) favored by the Ottoman state". Unlike Merriam-Webster, Lexico's American and British English dictionaries have the spelling madhhab, which is consistent with the title of our own article. Is there any reason to prefer "madhab" over "madhhab"?
  • "Abu-Husayn holds he also aimed to take over Beirut and Keserwan, both held by Yusuf." → "Abu-Husayn maintains that [...]", avoiding "holds" because of the "held" later in the sentence.
  • "Fakhr al-Din was instructed by Murad Pasha to assist the new beylerbey of Tripoli, Husayn Pasha al-Jalali, to collect the eyalet's taxes" → "[...] with the collection of the eyalet's taxes"
  • "his chief aide—or kethuda, Mustafa" → "his chief aide, or kethuda, Mustafa"
  • There are still four instances of "Medicis".
  • "He signed a letter in May requesting permission to stay in the country" – what was "the country"? The Grand Duchy of Tuscany?
  • "[The Habsburgs] likely held Fakhr al-Din against his will" → "probably held Fakhr al-Din against his will"
  • "under the guise of assisting Tripoli's beylerbey Umar Kittanji Pasha collect the taxes in his eyalet" – Either "assisting" should be "helping", or it should be "assisting [...] with the collection of taxes".
  • "the Ottoman imperial government, likely seeking to avoid a total victory by the Ma'ns" → "the Ottoman imperial government, probably seeking to avoid a total victory by the Ma'ns"
  • "Homs" is linked at its second appearance, not its first.
Fixed now? Al Ameer (talk) 01:56, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "his fiscal and political adviser and scribe—or mudabbir, Abu Nadir Khazen" – Replace the dash with a comma and space.
  • "The Maronites of Bsharri likely welcomed the end of the muqaddams" → "The Maronites of Bsharri are likely to have welcomed the end of the muqaddams"
  • "the new beylerbey soon after died" → "the new beylerbey died soon after", and "afterward" might be better still.
  • "but does not specify if he held office" → "but does not specify whether he held office"
  • "A sketch of Fakhr al-Din, published in a 1646 work by his physician in 1632–1633, the Nazareth-based Franciscan Eugene Roger. The portrait was likely not drawn from life" – Avoid "sketch" for an engraving. "Eugene" should presumably be "Eugène", and "probably" is better than "likely".
  • "The Ottomans' victories against the Safavids in 1629 had likely freed up their forces" → "[...] are likely to have freed up their forces"
  • "The tax farms which Fakhr al-Din and his family held practically undisturbed from the 1590s, were the principal source of his income." – No comma needed here.
    Removed. Al Ameer (talk) 01:56, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The port town of Sidon (sketched in 1843)" – Again, not a sketch; change this to "depicted" or "pictured" as in other captions. It might be best to use one of these consistently throughout – perhaps "pictured".
  • "resulting in foreign coinage overtaking its internal markets and widespread counterfeiting" → "[...] and in widespread counterfeiting"
  • "building hostel-warehouses—known as khans—for merchants there" → "building hostel-warehouses (known as khans) for merchants there"
  • "the last of which he founded and is today called after him." → "[...] and which is today named after him." How is it named after him, though? I don't see any mention of him in our article Sidon Sea Castle.
  • "utilization" → "use"
  • "sekbans musketeers" → "sekban musketeers"
  • Fixed.
  • "his ties with the French, the Tuscans and the Vatican" – "The Vatican" is rather anachronistic here; try "the Papacy" instead. What does the source for this say?
  • "both share a commendation of Fakhr al-Din, noting his rule was a golden age for the city" – I would simplify this to "both commend Fakhr al-Din and note that his rule was a golden age for the city"
  • "had likely caused a deficit of Druze farm labor" → "had probably caused a deficit of Druze farm labor"
  • "per their own community's conception of the Lebanese state" → "according to their own community's conception of the Lebanese state"
  • "though differ significantly" → "though they differ significantly"
  • "Fakhr al-Din requested from the Medicis assistance" → "Fakhr al-Din requested assistance from the Medici"
  • "his communications with Tuscany indicate Fakhr al-Din's primary concern was utilitarian" → "his communications with Tuscany indicate that Fakhr al-Din's primary concern was utilitarian"
  • "an intrinsic marble fountain" – Why "intrinsic"?
  • "alternating yellow and white bands of limestone—a style known as ablaq" – Comma and space instead of dash here.
  • "Haddad assumes Fagni oversaw" → "Haddad assumes that Fagni oversaw"
  • "Fakhr al-Din had his government house—known as a saray—built in Sidon" → "Fakhr al-Din had his government house (known as a saray) built in Sidon"
  • "an endowment—known as a waqf, administered from Damascus" → "an endowment (known as a waqf) administered from Damascus"
  • "and a bathhouse—or hammam." → "and a bathhouse (or hammam)."
  • This is now the only punctuation left that sticks out like a sore thumb to me. I think it's to do with the gloss being at the end of a sentence (and a paragraph), rather than being a kind of aside in the middle of a sentence; it seems to draw too much attention to itself. You do say below that you prefer using parentheses for glossing foreign terms. Ham II (talk) 20:02, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In the present, the Khan al-Ruzz is in a poor state" → "Today the Khan al-Ruzz is in a poor state"
  • "An 18th-century, artistic representation of a wife of Fakhr al-Din" – Is this meant to imply that artistic licence has been taken by the European artist? I would change this to something like "A fanciful 18th-century representation of a wife of Fakhr al-Din."

Ham II (talk) 10:20, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

G'day Ham II. Just noting that Al Ameer son has already made quite a number of changes to eliminate parens as a result of my suggestions above. My understanding is that dashes are less formal but more intrusive, and serve to draw attention to the additional material, whereas parens are more formal but subtle. Over to Al Ameer son to decide on the best approach, but I would note it is largely a style preference (the MOS is silent on a preference, here is one guide on such things), and suggest that Al Ameer son makes a decision on a case-by-case basis. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:46, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Ham II: - Recently, a discussion at WT:FAC resulted in disallowing the use of the !xt and xt templates on FACs (the instructions above have been changed to indicate the new guidelines) due to the page having a limited number of template calls and those templates taking up an undue amount of our template transclusion space. If you must highlight text in color, please switch to using {{red}} and {{green}} (they change color but not font so take up less space against the transclusion ceiling) or simply indicate the text in quotes. Hog Farm Talk 15:07, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Hog Farm: Thanks; I wasn't aware of the talk page discussion. Now done. I've also created the redirects {{xr}} and {{xg}} as less obtrusive equivalents. Ham II (talk) 09:44, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for clarifying this PM and explaining the purposes of both. I personally prefer using parentheses for foreign terms or generally unfamiliar places. Except for potential consistency concerns, I do not see why both approaches cannot coexist so I am taking your case-by-case advice for now. Wherever Ham II recommended a simple comma as an alternative, however, I used that.
@Ham II: Thanks for the thorough review. Other than the bit about how best to explain the foreign terms used in the article, I believe I have addressed the rest of your concerns and suggestions. Al Ameer (talk) 01:56, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It gives me great pleasure to support this candidate! Ham II (talk) 21:01, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

edit

Spot-checks not done. It looks like all sources are consistently formatted. These all look like good sources but I note that many are decades old. Is William Harris (historian) a reliable source for Lebanese topics? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:59, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: Thanks for spotting that, it was a mix-up. Not the correct 'William Harris'. The 'William Harris' who is cited as a source here is a reliable source for Lebanese topics. [14].
Most of the sources cited here which date from before the 1990s are by the top authorities for Lebanon's Ottoman history, i.e. Kamal Salibi and his student Abdul-Rahim Abu-Husayn. The others include entries in the Encyclodia of Islam's 2nd edition (including one by Salibi), an expert work by William J. Griswold (which is cited by almost any source discussing Ali Janbulad), and an expert work by V. J. Parry, a noted historian of the Ottoman period. --Al Ameer (talk) 15:34, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I presume these early historians have not had their findings overturned by later research? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:29, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Salibi and Abu-Husayn have actually overturned a lot of what used to be the conventional history of the subject, and Ottoman-era Lebanon in general. In the case of Salibi, he has overturned some of his own conclusions and views from the 50s, 60s, and 70s, in part due to the findings of his student, Abu-Husayn. As for the information in the article, it is all the most current, so-to-speak. However, as Ottoman government records and other contemporary material continues to be researched, conclusions by the historians of this subject will continue to evolve. Al Ameer (talk) 20:17, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Jo-Jo Eumerus Is this a pass for source review? (t · c) buidhe 20:42, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Al Ameer son and Buidhe:Yes, providing that the current state of the article reflects that However, as Ottoman government records and other contemporary material continues to be researched, conclusions by the historians of this subject will continue to evolve since I don't know whether it does, not being familiar with the topic. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 21:44, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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