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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Faryl Smith/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ucucha 01:53, 13 January 2012 [1].

Faryl Smith

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Faryl Smith (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): J Milburn (talk) 18:30, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The previous nomination failed mostly because of the heavy usage of unimportant quotes; I promised to make an effort to trim them, but took longer than I expected to find the time. While I've written FAs on other products of Britian's Got Talent, they saw little success in the real world; Smith has sold well, performed at prestigious events and broken several records. I look forward to reviews, and will do my best to address them quickly. Thanks, J Milburn (talk) 18:30, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support from Jim Not an article type I would normally review, but well written, and I think this time round the number and nature of the quotes is acceptable. I ran together the first two sentences of the Faryl section, please revert if you're not happy with the change. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Spotchecks and images I checked half a dozen of the refs, no obvious problems. The two images have OTRS permissions and are clearly appropriate. I don't think you need her name in the caption to the first image, it's assumed that the subject of an image is the same as the article title unless otherwise stated. I don't like the positioning of the second image, on my browser it's forcing a subheading into the page Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:13, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments: I read this last time, rather liked it, made some comments which were properly addressed. I've just read it again, rather carefully, and needless to say I've managed to find a number of (mainly) prose issues for attention. Many of these, I have to say, are very minor, and some are more a question of choice:-

  • "number six" and "number 4" together in lead - inconsistent
  • "Smith was nominated for two Classical BRIT Awards in 2010 due to Faryl, and became the youngest artist to ever receive a double nomination." "Due to" is weak; "on account of" or "as a result of" would be stronger. And "to ever receive" should be "ever to receive". Personally I would reorganise the sentence along the following lines: "In 2010, on account of Faryl, Smith was nominated for two Classical BRIT Awards, and became the youngest artist ever to receive a double nomination".
  • Perhaps say what "The Prayer" was (song, video, film or whatever), rather than requiring readers to use the link.
  • Is the sentence "Smith lives with her parents in Kettering, where she attends Southfield School for Girls" really leadworthy?
  • "placed her into the final" → "placed her in the final" (or "gained her a place in the final"; "placed into" doesn't sound right.
  • "During her first live show, Cowell described her as "literally one in a million". Being pernickety, wouldn't he have said this "after", rather than "during", her performance?
  • "call in" → "call-in" (as in "phone-in" which is probably a better choice of term; I haven't heard of a "call-in")
  • "with the other semi-finalists"; She was a finalist, wasn't she? (Above: "She then performed in the final..."
  • "While she was competing in Britain's Got Talent, Cowell arranged for Smith..." Switch it round: "While Smith was competing in Britain's Got Talent, Cowell arranged for her..."
  • "...Burnett. Burnett previously coached 2007 Britains Got Talent winner..." The "Burdett. Burdett" repetition should be avoided, and it needs to be "had previously coached". The sentences could be linked, thus: "...Burdett, who had previously..." etc
  • "Syco": again, don't make readers use a link to obtain basic information. Brief description: "Cowell's media organisation Syco".
  • "her tutor, Sylvia Berryman"; Last we heard, she was receiving lessons from Yvie Burnett. Who is Berryman, and what is her "tutor" role?
    • "In November, it was announced that Smith would be performing on stage in Kettering with Sylvia Berryman, a vocal tutor who had worked with Smith prior to her appearance on Britain's Got Talent." J Milburn (talk) 22:40, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After signing with Universal, Smith performed at the Royal Albert Hall with Jenkins for the press". Can you give a little more detail? In what sense was this event "for the press"? A press benefit concert?
  • "...Jenkins, who first met her when she won a competition in Wales." Ambiguous; who won the competition in Wales? Needs clarification.
  • What became of the plans concerning Domingo? They re not mentioned again.
  • "a cover of "Annie's Song" by John Denver" could confuse. Suggest; a cover of John Denver's "Annie's Song"
  • "has previously" → "had previously" (? sounds better)
  • "week leading up to release" → "week before release" (saves words)
  • U2s" → "U2's"
  • "Faryl officially entered the charts at number six..." How does that square with, a couple of lines earlier. "On the day of the release the album was at the number one spot on the UK Albums Chart"?
  • "After her return from the US," - unnecessary; you've already said she's back
  • "...where she, according to Elisa Roche of the Daily Express..." Positioning of "she" is awkward. Better: "...where, according to Elisa Roche of the Daily Express, she..."
  • "...later in 2009" To avoid giving the year twice in the sentence, you could say "later that year".
  • The word "but" in the phrase beginning "but Cohen..." is not appropriate, since what Cohen says is not a contradiction of what Faryl had said.
  • "In mid-November, Smith was awarded the best classical award at the 2009 Variety Club awards,[52] the youngest ever recipient in the awards' 57-year history." What work was this award given for? Placing this sentence in the middle of a paragraph about the making of her second album could confuse readers.
    • I don't know- no-one mentions it, so I'm assuming it's not for any one particular work. However, I have moved it to the para about her awards- it breaks chronology, but I think it still makes sense. J Milburn (talk) 22:40, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "her highlight of the year" would read better as "the highlight of her year". (Didn't I say this last time round?)
  • Her father noted that "because she is still so young, we don't want her doing complete shows on her own..." etc. This is a statement, not a casual observation, so "noted" is wrong. "Her father stated that" would be appropriate.
  • "Smith also opened the Serenata festival, Britain's first ever classical music festival." (my emphasis). So Britain had never had a classical music festival before? Come, come, there have been thousands upon thousands of classical music festivals in this country. I have been to dozens myself. You need a rather less all-embracing form of words.
    • Removed- I was actually going off what the source said there; "The Serenata festival, Britain's first ever classical music festival, is set against the backdrop of Dorset's Jurassic Coast, with tickets available now." I can only assume it's following a particular format not followed by other festivals. J Milburn (talk) 22:40, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She performed at further charitable events later in the year, including raising £2,700 for a hospice in Cransley and performing in aid of The Salvation Army in Portsmouth." Not grammatical as it stands. Probably best to rewrite it completely: "In further charitable events later in the year she raised £2,700 for a hospice in Cransley, and performed in aid of the Salvation Army in Portsmouth".
  • "intending to go to university afterwards" → "with the intention of..." etc

Brianboulton (talk) 21:30, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for your thoughts; I have replied inline. J Milburn (talk) 22:40, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for responding so promptly. I think this is a goer, and will support am supporting, subject to sources and images clearance. Brianboulton (talk) 01:11, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Brian, see above, I've done (limited) spotchecks and image reviews Jimfbleak - talk to me? 16:51, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • A lot of overlinking in the newspaper, magazine and newswire names; I'd suggest only linking upon first usage
  • Each ref may reasonably be looked at in isolation, meaning that the concept of a "first" reference doesn't necessarily hold true. This has come up at FAC in the past, and I believe my way has been OKed, as it were. J Milburn (talk) 19:41, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rather than using and manually italicizing the publisher field for newspaper names, you could use the newspaper parameter instead for convenience. (In fact, there are some references that make use of the newspaper field, and I suggest this be done consistently.) For magazines and such, the "work" parameter might be preferable instead
  • Definitely- it's actually something I became aware of in the middle of writing the article. I've been working on this for literally years, so I've learnt a lot from when I first started writing it! J Milburn (talk) 22:08, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I suggest using the agency parameter for newswires like Associated Press, Reuters, etc.
  • Consider changing spaced hyphens to en dashes as separators in article titles
  • Ref 69: RTÉ rather than RTÉ.ie as publisher?
  • Ref 89: Article author?
  • Ref 90: Recheck title?
  • Changes look good, thanks. I'll give the prose a look through later on, but with Brianboulton's excellent review and support I feel there won't be much for me to comment on. Auree ★ 20:31, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lede looks good; I decided to be bold and give it a quick copy-edit. Feel free to revert if the changes were unhelpful.
  • In my edits, I removed the redundant "received" in "she received singing lessons from Yvie Burnett and received offers from various record labels", but I realize it doesn't much better. How do you feel about tweaking to "she took singing lessons from Yvie Burnett and received offers from various record labels" or something similar? Auree ★ 21:02, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should "Ave Maria" be in italics rather than quotations? Not too sure on this one.
  • "it was again reported that it was hoped" – Could be reworded. Reported/hoped by whom?
  • "In January 2009 plans were released for Smith to perform with Placido Domingo. The idea was suggested by him." – Can these two sentences be merged?
I'm really scraping the bottom of the barrel for things to nit-pick about here. The article is well written, comprehensive and appropriately structured. I'll hold off on supporting for now pending on additional reviews from others and the fixes made, but at heart I feel this is ready to be promoted. Good work! Auree ★ 21:02, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks very much for your kind words and the time you've taken to review this. J Milburn (talk) 22:17, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
All the changes look good. I'll look it over again tomorrow (as I'm out of significant editing time for today) and switch to support thereafter. (: Auree ★ 23:10, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
One last comment: "Sampson eventually won the show as a result of the phone-in, with Signature second, and Johnston third." seems a bit oddly worded. I also made a few small changes again. This article seems ready to me now, so switching to support. Auree ★ 06:25, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: A very clear, thorough article. This seems to cover all aspects of a short career very clearly and looks comprehensive. No big problems, just a few nitpicks on prose. Several of them are fussy, and feel free to treat them with contempt and ignore them. And I confess to never having heard of Faryl Smith as I carefully avoid going anywhere near BGT! --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:11, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your thoughts, they're appreciated: BGT and X Factor really are my guilty pleasures. I'm not even in to pop music, normally... Smith certainly isn't someone I'd choose to listen to! J Milburn (talk) 22:34, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "who rose to fame after auditioning for the second series of the ITV television talent show Britain's Got Talent in 2008": Maybe specify she rose to fame when her audition was seen on TV? Otherwise it suggests that the act of auditioning made her famous. But feel free to ignore.
  • "She received praise throughout the competition, and although she was the favourite to win after the second round, she finished outside the top three in the live final on 31 May": Do the "she"s pile up here? Maybe omit the second to have "and although favourite to win after the second round, she finished…"
  • "and offers from various record labels": To sign for them, presumably?
  • "Her debut album, Faryl, was recorded in December 2008 and January 2009 and released in March 2009": Not sure about the repeated and. Maybe "Her debut album, Faryl, recorded in December 2008 and January 2009, was released in March 2009."
  • "In addition to her albums, she featured on a charity cover of "The Prayer"…" Reads as if her albums also featured on the cover.
  • "She won her semi-final, performing a cover of Sarah McLachlan's "Angel", by the public vote.": A little ambiguous; was the choice of song or her victory through public vote?
  • "She then went on to perform in the Britain's Got Talent Live Tour with other contestants,[8] where she first performed her duet of "Walking in the Air" with Johnston." Suggests we should know what this duet is. Maybe just "a duet"? It would then make more sense to call it "her duet" in the "Record deal" section.
  • "While Smith was competing in Britain's Got Talent, Cowell arranged for her to receive free singing lessons…" Was this standard practice or just favouritism from Cowell?
    • It's questionable; that's why I've included it. It's meant to be a talent competition, but some of the favourites are being coached? I don't really want to go into the tabloid sensationalism, but I could make clearer that this wasn't made clear to the viewers. J Milburn (talk) 22:34, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • If it was a big deal in the tabloids or wherever, yes make it clear that it wasn't clear. (I think that makes sense!) Otherwise, leave it to the reader to make up their own mind. --Sarastro1 (talk) 23:06, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the pair first met when Smith won a competition at the Llangollen International Musical Eisteddfod" I assume they met before BGT? A date would maybe help and if this was the case, I wonder if "the pair had met" would work better?
  • "In January 2009 plans were released for Smith to perform with Placido Domingo. The idea was suggested by him." Two points: did she ever perform and if so when? If not, it should be specified why, if it is important enough to include. Second: the short sentence does not work all that well and could be combined with the first part: "In January 2009 plans were released for Smith to perform with Placido Domingo, an idea suggested by him." Or "In January 2009, Placido Domingo suggested Smith perform with him [and plans were released]."
  • I notice that in several quotes, there is no punctuation after "said". Should something be there? ( I tend to use a colon, but I may be wrong.)
  • "and also played for the club's Under-13 girls IX.": Just checking that "IX" should not be "XI". If it was nine-a-side, I've never seen it written as IX, but that could be my ignorance. --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:11, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support: There are still a couple of points under discussion, but none of them affect my support for an interesting article. --Sarastro1 (talk) 23:08, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for your comments. I'm going to go back and look at the sources about her duet and about the singing lessons; there may be a little more which is worth adding. I'll do this tomorrow afternoon/evening- I have an early train to catch... J Milburn (talk) 23:40, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I've added some reactions to the lessons, but have still been unable to find anything about the duet. She did duet with Jose Carreras, so I've added a mention of that. J Milburn (talk) 18:07, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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