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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Florence Nagle/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 13:25, 13 May 2015 [1].

Florence Nagle

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Nominator(s): Sagaciousphil, Eric Corbett, Richerman, Giano, Dr. Blofeld

Florence Nagle was a trainer of race horses at a time when women were not allowed to hold trainers licences, a breeder of champion dogs when women were not allowed to be members of The Kennel Club. and a feminist described by one commentator as "the Mrs Pankhurst of British horse racing". She must have been a formidable woman, as even in her eighties she was actively campaigning for a change to The Kennel Club's constitution to allow women members.

This article is the result of the labours of many editors since Giano created it in October last year, only some of whom are listed above as nominators. Much of the credit must go to Sagaciousphil though, who was too modest to write up this nomination herself. This is our offering to those who believe that Wikipedia's coverage of significant women ought to be improved. I hope you enjoy reading it, and perhaps even find Florence's robust defence of the rights of women to be a little inspiring. Eric Corbett 19:00, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. - Dank (push to talk)

  • "Miss Newton Deakin": some copyeditors ask people not to use Miss unless the lack of a husband is part of the storyline. I don't think it's wrong, just a little off. (Looking again ... if you're saying that's the name of the registration, then a small tweak might help make that clearer: change "registered as being owned by her friend Miss Newton Deakin, with whom she jointly owned some of her dogs" to "registered as being owned by Miss Newton Deakin, a friend with whom ...")
  • "kennel girls": I don't know what that means.
  • "£5", "£48", "£750": Not taking a position, just noting that some want to see conversion figures here.
  • Support on prose per standard disclaimer. These are my edits. Engaging, lucid, great choice of subject matter. - Dank (push to talk) 23:27, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A kennel girl would be a girl who works in dog kennels, although I think kennel maid would be the correct term. Would that make more sense? Richerman (talk) 23:44, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's your call. My thinking was ... we're being introduced to a dog breeder in the lead, then we see the term "kennel girl" ... my first reaction was, "Wait, was there a kennel mentioned that I missed?" I read it again and saw that there wasn't, so it must have been the estate kennels. I don't know if other readers will do the same double-take. - Dank (push to talk) 01:00, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding Miss Newton Deakin: I think bearing in mind the era and rigid class etiquette of the time, Miss Newton Deakin is probably the correct usage and adds to the favour of the subject, which is all a little eccentric. I suspect Miss N-D was very proud of being a "Miss" and like Florence herself a great feminist. We have to be careful of applying modern ideas to older concepts. Just a though of mine. Giano (talk) 07:24, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Did Stud & Stable Magazine really call her "Racing's Emily Pankhurst"? I assume they meant "Emmeline"; it's not your mistake, but it should be acknowledged by a [sic]. Brianboulton (talk) 20:34, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Stud and Stable didn't, but Lambie (2010), p. 480 did. I'm not sure that really needs a "sic", but I'll happily defer to others on that. Eric Corbett 21:41, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for looking at the article, Brianboulton. I did a brief search using "Emily Pankhurst": Google books; jstor; British Newspaper Archive; and newspapers.com, which seems to indicate she was referred to as Emily fairly frequently? I'll just echo Eric's comment and defer to what others feel is best. SagaciousPhil - Chat 09:48, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that people have made the same mistake over and over again doesn't exonerate them. Lots of people said/say "Marie Celeste" (for Mary - see excellent WP article). But this is hardly the most important issue here; I thought it worth pointing out, and it's up to you whether you take it up. Brianboulton (talk) 11:09, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's quite possible that she was called Emily as a shortened form of her name although I've no evidence to back that up. As it's a direct quote, and most people will recognise the name anyway, it's probably best left as it is unless anyone feels strongly that it needs a sic. Richerman (talk) 12:13, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support by a too-involved editor for a neutral review and not-enough-involved editor to co-nom. I have edited this article early on, and I just wanted to pop by and say that I support the FAC nomination. I can also answer/clarify any horse-related questions if I'm pinged. Montanabw(talk) 21:07, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Montanabw. Eric Corbett 21:18, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Support - citation 69, the "online casebook" link gives a 403 error, although the "extract" link works fine. Otherwise, it looks good. GregJackP Boomer! 14:28, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I hope the link I've changed it to is OK? SagaciousPhil - Chat 15:05, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good to me. GregJackP Boomer! 15:47, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

I think the correct tags are on both now. SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:27, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Hamiltonstone. Generally fabulous prose and construction.

  • "awarded the Challenge Certificate at three consecutive Crufts". Although Crufts is linked, a lay reader (well, me) will have no idea what a Challenge Certificate is or why it matters - can we give the reader any clue here about this?
  • "Irish Wolfhounds bred by Nagle were also successful in America; the first of her dogs were exported there in 1933". Not sure of this - as currently constructed, the sentence appears to mean that Nagle's first dogs were exported to America in 1933, whereas I think what is meant is that Nagle first exported dogs to America in 1933?
  • Might a link be added to gun dog?
  • Fantastic account of her activism, and a great anecdote at the very end. Nice work. hamiltonstone (talk) 12:19, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Hamiltonstone. I've added a note hopefully sufficiently explaining what a CC is, re-jigged the sentence about exports and added the link. SagaciousPhil - Chat 14:21, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note -- source review from anyone? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:45, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

  • Dog World should be italicized
  • Formatting of site/publisher is different between FNs6 and 22 and 58
  • The domain for FN22 is apparently expired as of this morning
  • FN52: page?
  • Be consistent in whether newspapers include publishers
  • Curling: can you verify this citation? I think you might be combining article and publication title. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:42, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support – I boggled slightly at the idea of a dog as a linchpin in a revival, but apart from that, nothing but praise. Clearly meets all FA criteria, in my view. – Tim riley talk 16:51, 10 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your support Tim. Florence is now an almost forgotten feminist activist, but at least she now has what is probably the best online account of her life and achievements. Eric Corbett 19:40, 10 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. When I review for FAC an article on a subject about which I am ignorant (of which there are an astonishing number) I make it my practice to see what's online already. There are so many – and more and more – WP articles such as this that wipe the floor with anything else available on the web. Congratulations to all concerned. Tim riley talk 20:36, 10 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I'm glad you're aware of this, most sources you'll find next to nothing in detail on this woman biographically, that's why this is such an impressive article in the circumstances I think!♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:00, 11 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support – There was just one thing I noticed:

  • "The elder sister of art connoisseur Peter Watson, she attended Wycombe Abbey for her initial schooling followed by studying domestic economy at Evendine Court." A little noun-plusing going on here with "followed by studying domestic economy..." Other than that, that's it!

Again, I had no idea who Florence was but thanks to this excellent article, I do now. It is comprehensive, not overly detailed, brilliantly written and interesting. Well worthy of FA. -- CassiantoTalk 09:07, 13 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've made a few tweaks to the sentence you mention, so see what you think now. Eric Corbett 12:20, 13 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, much better. CassiantoTalk 12:26, 13 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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