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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Frederick Browning/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Buidhe via FACBot (talk) 15 March 2022 [1].

Frederick Browning

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Nominator(s): Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:59, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Boy Browning, a British Army general and Olympian who served as head of the Duke of Edinburgh's office. His wife is more famous than he is. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:59, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

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HF - support

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Recusing to review - I recognized the name from reading A Bridge Too Far a couple years ago. Hog Farm Talk 16:09, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • I read the book as a boy. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • " was a senior officer of the British Army who has been called the "father of the British airborne forces"." - shouldn't this quote be somewhere in the body as well?
    Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm assuming it's from an old paragraph split, but the first paragraph of early life has no citations
    Yes. Put the paragraph back together. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "although only hospitalised for four weeks, did not rejoin the 2nd Battalion at the front until 6 October 1916" - any specific reason why?
    There's a difference between needing to be in hospital and being fit for duty. Expanded on this, since you are interested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and mentioned in despatches on 23 May 1918" - maybe an ENGVAR issue, but should it be "and was mentioned in despatches"?
    Sounds okay to me, but added a second "was". Using an auxiliary verb this way seems normal to me. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "When he found that the 2/503, was to take part" - not sure the comma after 2/503 should be there
    Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Some saw him as "a ruthless and manipulative empire builder who brooked no opposition"" - recommend naming Browning instead of using "he", since Lathbury and Urquhart are discussed more recently before this than Browning
    Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In his pack, Browning carried three teddy bears and a framed print of Albrecht Dürer's The Praying Hands" - is this really due detail?
    I think it was there as a DYK hook, but the article was never submitted to DYK. I thought it was a nice human
  • " although he did not officially retire from the Army until 5 April 1948" - this is stated twice in about two or three sentences. I think there can be a way to smooth the transition and avoid repeating information
    Deleted one. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I can't imagine the generals.dk external link is really useful in any way
    Agreed. (I think someone went around adding it to articles. Removed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sourcing looks fine.

Hog Farm Talk 03:31, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

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Recusing to review.

  • " including shortages of photographs". Could we elaborate on what is meant by "photographs", for the uninitiated. And is there no link?
    Linked. Added a bit. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:43, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He relinquished command of the 1st Airborne Division to Brigadier George Hopkinson"; "He relinquished command of the 1st Airborne Division to Brigadier George Hopkinson". Suggest removing one of these.
    I think I get what you mean. Trimmed second mention. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:43, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The garish logo seems a bit large and tends to overpower an article which otherwise approaches perfection. Perhaps a little smaller? Perhaps a shorter caption - much of the current one repeats the article.
    I don't want to force a size (MOS:IMGSIZE), so removed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:43, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Gog the Mild (talk) 21:59, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

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I can't find much to comment on; this is in excellent shape.

  • Can you confirm the spelling is "Ygdrasil" in the source? I've always seen it as "Yggdrasil", and Google confirms that's the correct spelling, though of course Browning was at liberty to mis-spell it for the name of his boat if he wished.
    I checked it against the source to make sure it wasn't a misspelling on my part, and then against a second source to make sure that my source hadn't misspelt it. Added a second source to the article. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Because of this he has been called the "father of the British airborne forces"' makes it sound as though he's called this because he designed his own uniform; perhaps "Because of his role he has been called..."?
    Move the sentence to avoid the ambiguity.
  • "an apathetic War Office and an obstructionist Air Ministry": not knowing any of the history, I don't know why the War Office would be apathetic in 1941-1942, or why the Air Ministry would be obstructionist -- perhaps they were biased towards the RAF? Could a couple of words of explanation be added?
    That seems a bit harsh. Deleted the adjectives. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps a word or two on whether Browning was correct to criticize Operation Ladbroke?
    Added a bit. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • This doesn't necessarily require a change in the article, but I'm curious: it appears from the fact that Ernest Down was Browning's subordinate (you say "Browning sent his...commander, Major-General Ernest Down") as GOC 1st Airborne that Hopkinson would have been Browning's subordinate too, so how did Hopkinson get round Browning to sell Montgomery on Operation Ladbroke? Or is the chain of command in the army not as rigid as I'm imagining it?
    As head of Airborne forces, Browning was not in the chain of command for Husky. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Browning sent his most experienced airborne commander...": this sentence is long and hard to parse.
    Broken up the sentence. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The next sentence, starting "Down's replacement in command..." is also long, and appears to be missing its verb; I think it should be "was" instead of "by".
    Tweaked sentence. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "While retaining command...": another serpentine sentence that needs breaking up.
    Broken up the sentence. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Browning was forced into a humiliating backdown": suggest "Browning was forced, humiliatingly, to back down", to avoid "backdown" as a noun, which to my ear is a little casual.
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "under which the drop was staggered over several days, and not to make two drops on the first day": I don't think the syntax that joins these clauses works. How about "under which the drop was staggered over several days, with only one drop on the first day"?
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • How is the furore at SEAC relevant to this article?
    Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it would be more usual to say that Princess Elizabeth came to the throne; yes, she was also Duchess of Edinburgh, but that title is less well-known and in any case presumably a junior title.
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 04:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. All the fixes look good. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:07, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

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Support Comments from JennyOz

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Hi Hawkeye, CUB time! One man - Olympian, two world wars, royal household, famous wife, Bogarde, commodore, knight - there's enough for several bios. I am having intermittent connection problems. If I disappear, don't wait, I can always ask anything further on talk page after promotion.

lede
  • Operation Market Garden is mentioned twice intentional?
    Probably, but re-worked the lead to only do so once.
  • Daphne du Maurier is also there twice - ditto. It looks like the first para is a summary of the next 2 paras in the lede - intentional?
    Probably, but re-worked the lead to only do so once.
Early life
  • Probably, but re-worked the lead to only do so once.
  • and his wife Nancy (née Alt) - her real name was Anne (per Mead and per Browning snr's article - maybe change to Anne "Nancy" (née Alt). Or Nancy (Anne)
    Wow. The source says Nancy, but the Peerage says Anne. Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    In Mead chapter 1 there is a passage that reads, "Freddie also found time to get married on 1 March 1894 at St Mary Abbots, Kensington, to Anne Alt. Always known as Nancy, his bride was the daughter of...". Sorry I can't give you a page number. It's possibly p5 which is already included in ref 5, so no further action needed. JennyOz (talk) 11:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, it is on page 4. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:17, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • He had one sibling, his older sister Helen Grace - an older
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
First World War
Inter-war period
Second World War
Operation Market Garden
Later life
Legacy
Images top down
Notes

That's it. I have rushed to finish in case connection drops out again. If you don't hear from me... I certainly have nothing to oppose. Thanks for a great read. Very interesting life, very engaging prose. JennyOz (talk) 16:10, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I greatly appreciate you and the other reviewers taking the time to review. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Back for a minute. I have added five replies above. All else is fine thanks. JennyOz (talk) 11:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Great! Happy to add support. (Thanks for fixing my formatting.) JennyOz (talk) 19:40, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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