Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Glenrothes/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Karanacs 17:07, 6 September 2011 [1].

Glenrothes

Nominator(s): Yoostar (talk) 10:32, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because it has been worked on thoroughly since gaining GA status. I now believe it meets the criteria for FA status and submit it for the determination of peers. Yoostar (talk) 10:32, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:54, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Check for consistency between Notes and Bibliography - some shortened citation titles don't match bibliography. Also check internal consistency of shortened citations (rechecked 13:19, 2 September 2011 (UTC), not done)
How are you ordering the bibliography?

Done alphabetically by author. In case of GDC documents listed by year.

Be consistent in whether you provide locations for publishers

Done

Missing bibliographic info for Glenrothes Development Corporation Glenrothes - A Guide to Scotland's New Town in Fife, Glenrothes Development Corporation Glenrothes Development Profile 1983

Missing documents now added to bibliography

Don't duplicate bibliographic info in Notes where it is included in Bibliography, and don't include cited sources in External links

Done

Don't italicize publisher names, do italicize newspaper names. In general, be consistent in what is italicized and what isn't

Done, references amended

Citations to multi-page sources should include page numbers
Use p. for single pages, pp. for multiple
Be consistent in whether websites are cited using website name as work or with a publisher

Done

All web sources need publishers

Done

Not quite done - for example, FN 99. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:37, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Be consistent in whether you source websites by publisher, website name, or base URL, and if the latter how these are formatted. 13:19, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

~~Oppose~~ - while sources are generally reliable, there are too many errors in formatting and citations. Also, on a quick look at the text I see problems with tone, MOS and prose. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:54, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the comments. I am disappointed that the points you have raised have at no point been specifically raised during any of the assessments or peer reviews undertaken on the article to date. Particularly the issue around the bibliography. I am confident that the issues you have raised can be addressed within a short timescale and I will address each one. Yoostar (talk) 21:22, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok I believe I have now managed to address all of the bullet points you have raised. There should no longer be any errors in format or citations. I have also rechecked the text line by line for tone and prose problems.Yoostar (talk) 10:46, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've struck my oppose. While some issues remain, I feel this article will benefit from the input of other reviewers. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:37, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Interesting article with lots of information. However i feel, that the article - like many town or country articles - looses it's focus at times and provides too many details, where a broader, more general description would be enough for the average reader (see FA criterion 4, some examples below). The article would also benefit from a copy-edit by an experienced English copy-editor, as some of a phrases are a bit repetitive or don't really "flow" together. Some specific points follow:

Lead - "It is located approximately 30 miles (48 km) from both Edinburgh and Dundee." ==> include directions for the casual reader's convenience "... Edinburgh to the south and Dundee to the north.".

"The town had a[n estimated] population of 38,750 in 2008, making ..." ==> no formal census, need specific "estimated".

"newly established coal mine, ..." ==> "establish" is used 4 times in this paragraph. Need more variety.

"The GDC supported by Fife County Council ... Fife Council" ==> "Fife County Council" or "Fife Council"? Use complete formal name and "[the] Fife..." consistantly. Also link Fife Council at first mention in second lead paragraph.

Changed Fife County Council to local authority to avoid confusion

~~"Beautiful Scotland" and "town artists" ==> both statements don't need cite in lead (general, uncontroversial information), source in main text is sufficient.~~

"Glenrothes is not located on the rail network ..." ==> Consider replacing with existing bus transportation. Lead should only include most notable, summary facts.

History - "New Towns (Scotland) Act 1946" ==> As this has no link, could you add a brief additional sentence, what was the main intent of this Act? (reader can guess from context, but shouldn't have to).

"The issue of the town's name .." ==> Remove the whole statement. Unnecessary detail.

"Leslie and Thornton were also considered but as a consequence an area of 5,320 acres (2,153 ha) that sits between all of these villages was chosen." ==> "... but as a consequence" doesn't follow. I assume, the spot was chosen to have the new area as close as possible to all three old areas, but this should be stated more clearly.

"The land taken was previously an area of great natural beauty." ==> a bit out of context as a stand-alone sentence. Should be dropped or expanded slightly (what was especially beautiful?, any note-worthy remains today?).

""The primary reason for the designation of Glenrothes was to house miners who w[h]ere" ==> typo.

~~"The new mine was to be the most modern of the day .." ==> World-wide? Very strong statement, needs an immediate reliable source.~~

Changed to "most technologically advanced mine in Scotland"

~~"...officially opened by the Queen in 1957" ==> Queen's full name at first mention (for the 0.001 percent, who don't know her).~~

"The Silicon Glen legacy peaked ..." ==> Legacy with "inheritance" as primary meaning seems strange here, suggest "Silicon Glen era".

Governance - "Currently, Scotland returns two Labour MEPs, ... to the European Parliament." ==> Remove, unnecessary detail for the local town level.

Geography - "The central parts of the town lie on land between " ==> 3 times "lie on land", maybe "extend between, stretch between" or similar.

"The Mid Fife Local Plan is guiding ... 1,800 new houses. There are also ... and business parks." ==> Remove, unnecessary details for possible future events.

Demographics - "Compared with the average demography of Scotland, Glenrothes has low proportions of people born outside the United Kingdom [but] has fewer proportions for people over 75 years old. ==> replace "but" with "and", phrases don't oppose.

Economy - "A large supermarket development is proposed ... over a 20 year period." ==> Remove completely. Unnecessary details for possible future events.

removed

~~"The current facility is made up by an a[n]glomeration of two former mills" ==> typo, "the current facility is a merger of two former mills, ..."~~

Education - "Higher" ==> this is quoted three times, but never really clarified. Quote only at first mention, with a brief explanation, why "Higher" is used in a special context here or has a special meaning (which?). Why is "High School" in quotes aswell? If the whole topic goes beyond the article focus and cannot be summarized, maybe it's best to drop the distinction between old "Higher" schools and actual "High School" altogether - unnecessary detail for the average reader (better suited in a UK education history article).

Added link to Scottish Qualifications and altered paragraph to make it more understandable to an international audience.

"The Adam Smith College was formed on the 1 August 2005 from the merger between the former Glenrothes College and Fife College," ==> Glenrothes College is the same as Glenrothes Technical College? Continue with full name to avoid confusion (there's a lot of mergers going on).

Transport - "Bus", "Railway" and "Air" ==> should be trimmed and could easily fit into one paragraph. The detailed description of Thornton and Markich belongs to their respective articles, not to Glenrothes. Same goes for overly detailed non-Glenrothes airports. Suggested rewrite: "The town has a major bus station in the town centre, providing frequent links to the cities of Dundee, Edinburgh and Glasgow as well as to surrounding towns and villages. Two railway stations outside of the main town serve the Glenrothes area - Glenrothes with Thornton railway station and Markinch railway station. Glenrothes is home to an airfield, Fife Airport (ICAO code EGPJ), which is used for general aviation with private light aircraft. Edinburgh Airport is the nearest international airport to Glenrothes, Dundee Airport operates daily flights to London, Birmingham and Belfast."

Suggested alteration made.

Please note, that the mentioned sections (only meant as examples) are most likely accurate, but they are far too detailed (see WP:Summary) and/or provide information outside of the main article focus. Some of those facts are certainly interesting on a local level, but not for a general readership. As a procedural note, please only respond to points, when you have specific comments or questions. I will assume, that other points are done, when not stated otherwise. GermanJoe (talk) 11:26, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Status Update (GermanJoe) - i hope you don't mind, that i cleaned up and compressed the list a bit, otherwise it would be nearly impossible for other reviewers to follow the progress. I stroke all points, considered as done. Of course i haven't changed your additional comments (please make sure to sign comments between other text blocks to avoid confusion).

Remaining points were: *List of "major" employers ==> which criterion was used for this list, are those the top 6? Is an employment statistic per company as source available?

Query- - In relation to the major employers- List of "major" employers ==> which criterion was used for this list, are those the top 6? Is an employment statistic per company as source available?. These employers are listed on page 5 of reference 77/78. It would be accurate in saying that these represent the areas largest employers. unfortunately, there is no actual workforce figures provided in the source. How would I be best to address this?

I'd suggest to cite this source page in the lead for once, as the companies are described separately later. While looking through the PDF, i couldn't find the company Velux in the source at all - could you please double-check this one?

This has now been removed by another editor. It is slightly frustrating because Velux has their UK headquarters in the town (http://www.velux.co.uk/aboutvelux/velux_gb/). They manufacture all their roof windows in the UK from their Glenrothes plant. They and their sister company, Fife Joinery Ltd, employ almost 500 people between them. Unfortunately I have not been able to find an up to date source to prove this. Im happy therefore for it to remain out of the article.Mcwesty (talk) 09:00, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You should ask an experienced copy-editor to help fine-tune the prose, a native English speaker will have better input for that. You can add a request at the copy-editors guild here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GOCE/REQ.

I have asked a former High School English teacher to assist with this. I hope to update this element gradually over the next few weeks.Mcwesty (talk) 09:00, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'll try to reread the article and check some more criteria later. GermanJoe (talk) 19:46, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Working on some minor issues. Just to give an example of "article focus" - the article offers 19 different objects as landmarks.

Could the level of detail for the buildings be reduced?
Does the reader need to know 5-6 statues by name (are they all notable to a wider public)?
What is notable about the 2 last viaduct landmarks (besides their relative low classification)?

As a sidenote, WP:UKCITIES suggests to include only "notable" landmarks. As a personal guideline i would suggest to add landmarks, only when they are of broader regional (or better country-wide) importance. GermanJoe (talk) 20:50, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I will look again at the landmarks. Some of the town artworks have recently received listed status by Historic Scotland and I am wondering if it would be better to add these rather than some that are named in the article...? The Markinch railway viaduct is regionally important. The Cabbagehall viaduct is more locally important. Although the latter was designed by the same architect who designed the first Tay Rail Bridge. Mcwesty (talk) 09:00, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Never been there, so no idea :). I appreciate you want to add as much detail and information as possible, however you need to draw a line somewhere (see WP:Summary). Check the text from the view of an outside reader, unfamiliar with the topic - which landmarks are most notable for him and what exactly makes them interesting? You don't have to add all possible landmarks, when they don't have specific, note-worthy features. From the actual information given, it looks like the viaducts could be skipped for example (or they could be put in a more detailed sub-article). GermanJoe (talk) 09:10, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've been given a suggestion by another wikipedia editor. He is suggesting that in the Culture section the parks should be given geographical context within the town rather than just be listed. ie. Balbirnie park is located in the northeast of the town, Lochty Park is located on the southern edge of the town. Any thoughts on whether this would enhance the article? Im not sure if its required or would indeed do much to enhance the article...?Yoostar (talk) 14:28, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.