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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 8 July 2024 [1].

Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number

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Nominator(s): λ NegativeMP1 02:58, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"You all came back, huh? Why? You all know how this ends, don't you?" - Richard

Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number is a sequel to one of the most influential indie games of the 2010s, but is widely considered weaker than that game and is generally only remembered for being banned in Australia. The article for it is basically my #1 work on this site, having been worked on by me since my first non-talk page edits. It's also a former featured article candidate that failed due to concerns I was not able to address on time due to some real life events. With the copyedits done since then and all meaningful sourcing being exhausted, I believe that this article has very little in its way to becoming a featured article. I look forward to addressing any comments. λ NegativeMP1 02:58, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Panini!

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No change, unless if MP1 got into some huge Wiki-drama that I should condemn. Panini! • 🥪 03:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Draken Bowser

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Never got around to playing the sequel, but the first game was a good one. I have a feeling the nom will be successful this time, just need to iron out a few kinks. Dropping a few suggestions

Lead

  • "The game takes place before, during, and after the events of Hotline Miami, with most of it focusing on the aftermath of the massacres committed against the Russian mafia in Miami by the previous game's protagonist, Jacket." - I think this is just a bit much to take in for the article's second sentence.
    • I can agree, but I'm not sure if there's a better way to word this or shorten it.
  • Prefer "with Dennaton incorporating all unused concepts they had from the development of the first game into the sequel."
    • Done.
  • "received generally positive reviews from critics, with reviewers generally praising the soundtrack and gameplay"

Gameplay

  • "such as" - used five times in relative proximity.
    • Reduced repetition.
  • "It is divided into several chapters (such as a building), each of which is further broken down into several stages (such as the floors of the aforementioned building)." - sometimes we need parentheses, but would it be possible to rephrase?
    • Unless you have any suggestions, I'm not sure.
  • "Most chapters have the player take control of a different character, with the game having thirteen playable characters in total." → "Most chapters have the player take control of one of thirteen playable characters."
    • Done.
  • "with enemy reactions towards player action being varied and enemies being able to get stuck in place." - could be slightly rephrased for better flow.
    • Rephrased.
  • "Exclusively for the version of the game released on Steam-release" - and I'd prefer to swap the following clauses into - "a level editor allowing players to create their own levels is included." - or to swap the entire sentence on its head leading with info on the level editor and ending on "..with the Steam-release."
    • Done.
  • "the players to create their own cutscenes and dialog, making it possible for players to create their own campaigns." - repetition.
    • Rephrased this bit completely.

Synopsis

  • Are video games subject to plot-section word limits? It's at 738.
    • Technically, there is a recommendation to keep it under 700 words, but this game has a convoluted plot and I think it's at the shortest it can be at.
  • " Following the events of Hotline Miami, the player character, 'Jacket', has been arrested after being manipulated into killing off the leadership of the Russian mafia by 50 Blessings, a neo-nationalist terror cell that masquerades as a peaceful activist group, gaining nationwide infamy." - a long sentence introducing many new ideas. Does "gaining nationwide infamy" refer to Jacket, 50 Blessings or both?
    • Added "leading to him", which should specify Jacket I think.
  • Prefer "serves with him in a commando squad deployed in Hawaii in 1985."- and I think I get what is meant by: "the basis of the shopkeeper" - but could the idea be communicated more clearly?
    • Changed to remove "the basis of", since the shopkeeper is just Beard.
  • "In 1991, a group of copycat killers known as The Fans attempt to emulate Jacket for attention, while the Son of the Russian Mafia boss of the first game seeks to return the Russians to power against the Colombian Cartel with the help of The Henchman, the latter of which seeks retirement." - a lot to take in before the full stop.
    • Broke the sentence.
  • "- in an act of desparation -" - ndashes.
    • Done, I think?

Halftime break. Will return later. Regards. Draken Bowser (talk) 16:39, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Development

  • "a team composed of" prefer "duo"
    • Done.
  • "Dennaton prioritized developing the game specifically for the fans of the original, comparing their development strategy to that of the Mega Man series. Unconcerned with trying to attract a larger audience, they described that they would 'give people that like the first game another game that they will enjoy.'" - the message conveyed by the quote is almost identical to the first clause.
    • Changed.
  • "The success of Hotline Miami was noted to lead to the increased the popularity of the artists behind the game's soundtrack.
    • Done.

Marketing and release

  • "It was announced here"
    • Done.
  • "Burns of VideoGamer and Rad of IGN praised the narrative, with Burns praising Dennaton's world design and Rad praising the variety in character motivations. Dave Cook of Vice praised the narrative for being a "smart story that many people simply didn't understand", and praising the ending." - "The soundtrack was additionally praised for its combination with gameplay by Thurster of PC Gamer and Burns of VideoGamer. Some tracks received additional praise for their specific uses in the game, with "Roller Mobster" being praised by Thurster of PC Gamer, and "You Are The Blood" being praised by Caty McCarthy of VG247 post-release in 2018"
    • Lower repetition.
  • Perhaps: "Many viewed it as whatattendees(?) shared Nathan Grayson's view of adescribed as a"
    • Done.
  • "that they would not change the ruling."
    • Done, though I left it as saying "challenge the ruling" since that seems like the proper lagnuage here.
  • "Upon release of the game"
    • Done.
  • "calling it a "grave mistake" in the game that did not feature into the narrative."
    • Done.

That's all I've got. Draken Bowser (talk) 19:10, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review! I've addressed all of the above comments unless specifically noted otherwise. λ NegativeMP1 23:01, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've been thinking about it. With the comments from the last review in mind and also my personal impression I'm waiting for one or two competent prose reviewers to speak their mind before pledging. Draken Bowser (talk) 12:51, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review by Generalissima

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Comments from Skyshifter

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Might turn this into a full review later. For now, I've noticed that some references need better formatting. Some examples are: the Hardcore Gamer sources shouldn't repeat the website's name in the title; the GameSpot ones lack both the author and date; the Eurogamer ones lack the author's names; etc. I'd recommend going over the references to add these missing parameters. I'd also recommend adding italics when the game's name is cited in the title, similar to what was done in OneShot. Skyshiftertalk 21:06, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing this out, I've went through and italicized the games titles, as well as add all missing author first and last names unless the information was not available (ex. the Stadia primary source, the Famitsu source). λ NegativeMP1 17:40, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some formatting is still needed for the references.

  • Article titles should be consistently in either sentence case or title case.
    • I'm using the way the articles are named on their publisher site, and I'm hesitant to change the way they're worded there in any way.
  • Some websites are inconsistently linked. You should link all of them for consistency. This includes refs. 5, 11, 21, 27, 34, 51.
    • Got them all, I believe.
  • Remove "PC Gamer" as author for refs. 9 and 17
    • Done.
  • On ref. 14 change the website parameter to publisher to avoid italicization
    • Done.
  • On ref. 18 remove "on Steam" from the title, remove store.steampowered.com and add Steam as publisher
    • Done.
  • Ref. 20 lacks website parameter
    • Fixed.
  • Add translated title to ref. 31
    • I don't know anyone that can translate the title, so not doable right now.
  • Add Stadia Community Blog as publisher for ref. 35
  • Ref. 37 has an extra apostrophe
    • Removed.
  • Metacritic shouldn't be italicized
    • I'm not the best with references, so I'm not sure how to do this without removing the publisher parameter.
  • Ref. 44 needs italics for the game title
    • Done.

Additionally, the infobox image needs alt text. Skyshiftertalk 18:29, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done all of the above unless stated otherwise or if extra direction is needed. λ NegativeMP1 19:08, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was pretty sure Gematsu had an article or redirect (I remember seeing it blue in another article today?), but they don't, so I've removed it (sorry). I've also fixed the Stadia link. I added a Japanese translation for 31's title with help from ChatGPT, hopefully that's fine. I've also removed the italics from Metacritic. On ref 42, I renamed GamesRadar to GamesRadar+. Regarding consistent title or sentence cases, it is a common procedure for FAs that tends to be pointed out by coordinators [2].
On a different note, I noticed that the Game Informer and GamesRadar+ reviews are mentioned in the reviews table, but not in prose. You should incorporate them to prose or remove them from the table. Skyshiftertalk 02:36, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, made the case across the titles consistent. And removed Game Informer and GamesRadar+ from the review box since I don't think their opinions would've added anything important to the reception section. λ NegativeMP1 02:47, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pass on reference formatting. Skyshiftertalk 03:05, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Z1720

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Non-expert prose review:

  • "include knocking out enemies with a door or kicking them against the wall, as well as finishing moves" -> " include knocking out enemies with a door, kicking them against the wall, and finishing moves."
    • Done.
  • "Jake, a nativist member of 50 Blessings, and Richter, a reluctant operative of 50 Blessings" -> "a nativist member of 50 Blessings named Jake and a reluctant operative of 50 Blessings named Richter" there are a lot of commas in this sentence so this will remove some of them.
    • I believe the suggestions from DRB have addressed this.
  • "The trials result in a film depicting him as "The Pig Butcher"." Is this "him" referring to Jacket?
    • Clarified.
  • I did numerous copyedits to the article. Feel free to revert anything you feel is unhelpful.

Those are my thoughts. Z1720 (talk) 16:14, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All of the above done, and thank you for the copyedits! λ NegativeMP1 21:56, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support comments by DWB

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Hi Negative, here are some of my initial thoughts, mostly relating to copy editing. I have no knowledge of this game so some things seemed unclear to me as a casual reader. I will take a look at the rest of the article soon, I'm up to Development.

Media
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  • From a presentation perspective, the media is all right aligned and seems to be either stacked on top of each other or pushed out of their respective sections. I'm on a higher resolution (2560x1440) and, as an example, it looks like this to me. The lower the resolution the more things fit but I would potentially suggest swapping the image of Soderstrom in the development section for this smaller one which is also clearer and forward facing File:Jonatan Söderström (Cactus) - Independent Games Festival 2010.jpg as the current one has him facing out of the article rather than in and is 90% not a picture of the main subject. I would also suggest left aligning both this image and the gameplay one, I think this would resolve much of the stacking problems. Left aligning the image of the assault would also prevent it being pushed down by the metacritic box.
    • Changed the image and moved some over to the left.
Text
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  • "The game takes place before, during, and after the events of Hotline Miami," add the year of release of the first game in brackets after it.
    • Done.
  • "The game takes place before, during, and after the events of Hotline Miami, focusing on the background and aftermath of the massacres committed against the Russian mafia in Miami by the previous game's protagonist, Jacket." suggested -> "The game takes place before, during, and after the events of Hotline Miami, focusing on the background and aftermath of the massacres committed against the Russian mafia in Miami by Jacket, the protagonist of the previous game."
    • Done.
  • In the version of the game released on Steam, the player has access to a level editor, allowing them to create custom levels and share them."-> "allowing them to create and share custom levels with other players."
    • Done.
  • "The game was originally conceived as downloadable content for the previous game, with the project becoming a standalone sequel after the length of it surpassed the base game. " -> "The game was initially conceived as downloadable content for the previous game, but it became a standalone sequel after its length surpassed that of the original."
    • Done.
  • Multiple sentences starting with "the game", "The game was first announced to be in development in December 2012 through Jonatan Söderström's Twitter. The game was developed to be the last in the series, with Dennaton incorporating all unused concepts from the development of the first game into the sequel. " -> ""The game was first announced in December 2012 via Jonatan Söderström's Twitter. Developed as the final installment in the series, Dennaton incorporated all unused concepts from the first game's development into the sequel."?
    • Done.
  • The lede has issues which stem from discussing release platforms in multiple places, both at the end of the 2nd paragraph and the end of the 3rd. I would maybe take a look at the 4th para of Spider-Man_(2018_video_game) and potentially merge the last two sentences of hte 2nd para into the third para.
    • Done.
  • "Both the player and enemies can be felled from a single attack. " - > "Both the player and enemies can be felled by a single attack."
    • Done.
  • "Additionally, the enemy AI is inconsistent, with reactions towards player action being varied." I think this is too vague, the first part sounds like it's broken, maybe an example of how it changes?
    • Will get to this later as I found some sourcing to add more information about it but I'll have to add it. Done.
  • "Upon completion of the game, "Hard Mode" is unlocked for levels in which the player achieved a rank of C+ or higher." what does ranking involve? What are players scored on? What's the range of grading?
    • I get this text is vague, but this is unfortunately the best I can do I believe. There's no decent sourcing for the high score system. Could possibly reword it but this is the best in terms of what can be worked with..
  • Sounds a bit marketing speak "Exclusively for the Steam release, a level editor allowing players to create their own levels is included." -> suggestion "The Steam version of Hotline Miami 2 includes a level editor, allowing players to create their own levels"?
    • Done.
  • "The plot of Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number is told out of order" -> "The events of Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number are presented out of chronological order" Is this what this means?
    • Yes, fixed.
  • Following the events of Hotline Miami, the player character, "Jacket",[a] has been arrested after being manipulated into killing off the leadership of the Russian mafia by 50 Blessings, a neo-nationalist terror cell that masquerades as a peaceful activist group, leading to him gaining nationwide infamy. -> "After the events of Hotline Miami, the player character, 'Jacket,' is arrested, having been manipulated by 50 Blessings—a neo-nationalist terror cell posing as a peaceful activist group—into assassinating the Russian mafia's leadership, which leads to his nationwide infamy.""
    • Done.
  • the background and the aftermath of Jacket's rampage. remove the second "the"
    • Done.
  • The whole second paragraph here is a bit wordy. Here is a suggestion for the whole section ""The game follows several playable characters through a series of intersecting plotlines that explore the background and aftermath of Jacket's rampage. 'Beard,' the shopkeeper from Jacket's hallucinations in the first game, serves with him in a commando squad deployed in Hawaii in 1985. Operating simultaneously with Jacket in 1989 are Jake, a nativist member of 50 Blessings, and Richter, a reluctant operative of the same group, both committing their own massacres, with Richter being coerced. In 1991, a group of copycat killers known as The Fans try to emulate Jacket for attention. Meanwhile, the Son of the Russian Mafia boss from the first game aims to restore the Russians' power against the Colombian Cartel, assisted by The Henchman, who seeks retirement. Martin Brown, a sadistic actor, uses his role in the in-universe film Midnight Animal to fulfill his violent fantasies, while detective Manny Pardo employs extreme violence to deal with criminals. Evan Wright, a writer, seeks to document the massacres in a book."
    • Copy pasted this version, since I tried my own methods in the past to reword this and I wasn't too sure how to make it less wordy.
  • the Soviet Colonel – in an act of desperation – murders remove the spaces between the '—'
    • Done.
  • but Beard manages to carry him to safety and save his life. - saying the same thing twice, carrying him to safety or saving his life are sufficient alone
    • Reduced to "saving his life."
  • The trials also result in the creation of a film depicting him as "The Pig Butcher". who is this in reference to? It sounds like it's meant to be Jacket but the prose makes it seem like it's about Evan?
    • Made this clearer.
  • Evan is given leads by his friend Manny Pardo, a police detective who uses his position to go on killing sprees during stakeout operations, justifying them as self-defence, needs a full stop instead of continuing on to talk about Richter.
    • Done.
  • The aforementioned film's star, Martin Brown, dies when he is accidentally shot by an actress with live ammunition on set of the film's final scene I assume this is talking about the Pig Butcher? I'm a bit unclear why we're jumping from the trial, to Evan, to the film, back to Evan, to two otehr characters and then mentioning the film again. It might be that way in the game but we can take some liberties to present events in a sensible reading order unless the jumping about is essential to the narrative. I would maybe move the first mention of the Pig Butcher to AFTER Evan's mother coming from Hawaii, then we can introduce the film, the murder of Martin Brown, and the fans inspired by Jacket altogether.
    • Reorganized the section. It is told this way in the game, but explaining the game in chronological order is already something this article does that the game does not, so how the game presents it doesn't matter. Readability comes first here.
  • they are all killed except for Tony, who is personally killed by Pardo afterwards while attempting to surrender. who is Tony, Russian Mafia or a fan? Who is the "all" being killed?
    • This is established earlier on, where the Fans are introduced in the character section as well as "Inspired by Jacket's killings, the Fans carry out a string of murders against petty crooks and drug dealers, unaware of the larger context of Jacket's campaign of violence."
  • Meanwhile, the Son is trying "the Son tries"
    • Done.
  • In their final moments, Manny Pardo we've gone from referencing him by surname to full name again, change to Pardo.
    • Done.
Hope these are useful Darkwarriorblake (talk) 17:33, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Development
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  • Shortly after the release and success of the first game, Dennaton began developing downloadable content, while also stating that the game was financially successful enough to fund a new game. -> confusing and assumes the reader knows what DLC is. I'd drop the "while also stating that the game was financially successful enough to fund a new game." altogether since it's stating the obvious and is more relevant to the origina' game's article than this one. I'd suggest something like "Following the success of Hotline Miami, Dennaton soon began developing downloadable content to expand on the game, planning for it to both rival the base game in scale and introduce new playable characters alongside a level editor."
    • Done.
  • As the downloadable content's proposed length surpassed that of the base game, the project was converted into a sequel. -> However, as development progressed, Dennaton realized the scope was greater than that of Hotline Miami and decided to transform it into a full sequel.
    • Done.
  • On 26 November 2012, ten days after Dennaton stated plans to release downloadable content, Söderström announced Hotline Miami 2 to be in development through a post on Twitter. waffling a bit, suggest "Dennaton announced the sequel on 26 November 2012, via his Twitter account.
    • Done.
  • However, the developers were still focused on fixing bugs in this original game. I'd question the relevance? Are we saying they were splitting resources? Was it affecting development of the sequel? I'd get rid of the "However", and change it to something like "The developers simultaneously worked on fixing bugs in the original game" and move this up to just after the 2nd point above.
    • I just got rid of this entirely, since it didn't effect development at all as far as any sourcing for this game is concerned.
  • The game was made in Game Maker 7, which was the same engine used in the first game. -> As with the original game, Hotline Miami 2 was built in Game Maker 7.
    • Done.
Music
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  • The success of Hotline Miami increased the popularity of the artists behind the game's soundtrack. switch "increased" to "contributed to a rise in"
Marketing and release
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  • planned release date of later that year. -> release date scheduled for later that year
    • Done.
  • "announced/announcement is used 3 times in the first two sentences
    • Changed one to "disclosed" to reduce repetition.
  • known as the Hotline Miami Collection,, it's not a nickname, just say titled, or even just "compilation of both games, the Hotline Miami Collection, released..."
    • Reduced.
Misc
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  • This game is nearly 10 years old, are there any retrospectives about it's modern appeal? Has it influenced any other games? Win any awards?
    • While the first game had a lot of influence on the indie game scene, this game was overshadowed and is basically disregarded as the first game but worse. There is some minor retrospective commentary, but its not very substantial and I honestly don't think it's worth covering due to how insignificant it is.
  • Are there any sales figures available?
    • Unfortunately not.

I think that's everything. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 17:55, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I've gotten everything you pointed out, with any adjustments or differences from what you suggested being pointed out when relevant. λ NegativeMP1 21:53, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Negative, this is mostly fine. One issue I've just noticed is that much of the synopsis is unsourced? Ref 4 doesn't seem to cover most of it. I have found https://www.vice.com/en/article/gqmpbw/the-ghost-wolf-legacy-hotline-miami-2s-story-explained-251 which may be worth looking at and seeing if it can be used, it's already present in the article as "{ref name="VicePlot"}". I did really struggle just finding that, it seems like this game did not get a tonne of coverage, but you can also cite the game itself which I would do as the only thing that doesn't need a ref is the plot section. Unless the game MOS is different to the Film one. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 16:37, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Video game plot sections can in-fact be assumed to be cited to the game itself, and most games do that. Ref 4 is only there because I was planning on expanding the bit about Richard to say he was a manifestation of characters fears, which I added just now. I think the Vice article was formerly in use at one point, though I think I got rid of it because I didn't find it particularly useful. Maybe if the characters and setting section needed sources. λ NegativeMP1 21:07, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, on the basis this section doesn't have to be sourced I am happy to lend my support. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 19:34, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

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Hardcore Gamer is viewed as sorta unreliable in WP:VGRS. Is Danny O'Dwyer and Crossley, Rob part of the GameSpot staff? What's "Abstraction Games"? store.steampowered.com is this a reliable source? What's #35? Is Chris Carter in #40 a reputable source? #45 may no longer be a reliable source. Rock Paper Shotgun is sometimes linked and without commas, and sometimes with commas. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:28, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hardcore Gamer was viewed as reliable in 2015, at the time of this games release, as it wasn't purchased by Valnet yet. Even now, per this discsusion, there is no current consensus or noticeable enough decline in quality for it to be unreliable even as a Valnet-owned property.
  • Yes.
  • Abstraction Games is the developers site and SteamPowered is the games Steam listing. These fall under primary sources.
  • VideoGamer.com content published in 2015 is still considered reliable.
  • Fixed the Rock Paper Shotgun consistency. λ NegativeMP1 15:32, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Jo-Jo, is that satisfactory? Thanks. And should I take your earlier comment to mean that you won't be able to do the spot check on this one? Gog the Mild (talk) 20:49, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure if this counts, but a check of every single source in the article was done by Vami IV earlier this year in the previous FAC. While it was a separate FAC, this article still has mostly the same sources as then (if not the exact same). The only significant changes since then and now are prose. λ NegativeMP1 21:17, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good thinking. But sadly, changing the prose is just as liable - in theory - to break the source to text fidelity as changing or adding sources. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:26, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, unless this can wait several weeks I can't do the spotchecking. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:26, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If a spotcheck is still required then I can give it a gander tomorrow (ET). Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 00:55, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With apologies for the delay, I've spot-checked about two-fifths of the refs, which I hope is sufficient:
  • Ref 2: I can't seem to find how this verifies the claim that "kicking [enemies] against the wall" is an ability. The other uses of this source are all verified.
  • Ref 3: All uses verified.
  • Ref 6: Verified, though do you think it could be worth adding that Hard Mode was introduced in response to some players saying the original game was too easy?
  • Ref 7: Both uses verified.
  • Ref 8: Both uses verified.
  • Ref 11: Verified.
  • Ref 13: Verified.
  • Ref 15: Verified.
  • Ref 20: Verified.
  • Ref 24: Verified.
  • Ref 26: Both uses verified.
  • Ref 28: Verified.
  • Ref 33: Verified.
  • Ref 37: Both uses verified.
  • Ref 38: Both uses verified.
  • Ref 41: All uses verified.
  • Ref 43: All uses verified.
  • Ref 46: Verified.
  • Ref 47: Verified.
  • Ref 50: Both uses verified.
  • Ref 53: Verified.
  • Ref 54: Verified.
  • Ref 56: Verified.
Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 18:23, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Got rid of the kicking enemies against walls bit, and implemented the hard mode development suggestion. λ NegativeMP1 18:57, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you NegativeMP1, I'm satisfied with the changes made. At first, I thought complaints about the original game's difficulty might have benefitted from clarifying that the complaints stemmed from a lack of difficulty, but the context provided by the rest of the sentence indicates that Dennaton wanted to provide more of a challenge to fans who felt they completed the first game too easily. Support. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 21:19, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by David Fuchs

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  • ref 2 is used to cite the statement about chapters and stages, but the Gamespot references only 30-odd "levels" and doesn't discuss the breakdown as the example given.
    I've used the PCGamesN reference to try and verify the levels breakdown (since it talks about each level having "floors"), though I can remove it if needed. I've also used that reference to back up the playable character abilities, though I removed the playable character count. λ NegativeMP1 16:18, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    On second thought, I've went ahead and just completely removed the examples since I felt it was better to have a simplified description than try to put two things together to equal one based on assumption. λ NegativeMP1 21:58, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from TWOrantula

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Lead
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  • Cut "throughout the game"
  • witnessing the events
  • Link level (video games) and cut "of the game"
  • "is tasked with defeating" -> "must defeat"
  • "In the version of the game released on Steam" -> "In the Steam version of the game"
  • More to follow. Nevermind.
    • Outsider passerby comment: I'm skeptical that these are actually improvements, and seem more like personal preferences. "Throughout the game" is helpful and harmless. "The" events ties back to the previous sentence on Hotline Miami 1, i.e. the events spoken of there; without "the" it refers to any old events, so that change seems bad. We shouldn't expect game-unfamiliar readers to have to hover over a wikilink to "level (video games)" to see which sense of "level" is meant; "level of the game" makes clear it means video game levels cleanly. (Usual reminder here that hover does not work on mobile, which is how 50% of readers view articles.) The other two suggestions, while harmless, I don't see as improvements, either - just alternate ways of saying the same thing. SnowFire (talk) 08:02, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That is my fault. This is my first FAC review, and I am quite unsure on how things work around here. TWOrantulaTM (enter the web) 16:49, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Don't worry, for the most part I'm still trying to figure out how things work in FAC too. For the most part, I agree with SnowFire's stance on these comments, but don't let that scare you away from the process. λ NegativeMP1 05:42, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TrademarkedTWOrantula, seconded. Don't be too worried about posing queries. One way of looking at this is: either the nominator has a ready response that you are happy with, in which case no worries; or they don't, in which case it is as well that you made the query. A good FAC review is likely to some to and fro over these sort of issues, so just get in there. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:33, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from BP!

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Nitpicks!

  • Link Hardcore Gamer
    • There is no Hardcore Gamer page to link to, though?
  • 2 PC Gamer citations aren't linked yet as citations
    • Linked.
  • One of the Engadget citations wasn't italicized yet
    • Done.
  • Hardcore Gamer as citations aren't linked yet
    • See my comment above.
  • Make sure to archive all the citations just in case the website dies in the future (some of them haven't been archived yet).
    • Most of them have been, I'll run an IABot request on the others when the bot lag goes below two and a half hours.
  • add author at ref 19
    • Done.
  • I've seen a couple of FAC reviewers before suggesting that Destructoid as a situational source should be omitted, though I may be wrong but this is FA somehow. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 12:20, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Addressed all of the above unless stated otherwise. As for Destructoid, (still gonna bring it up even though you struck that comment) this writer in specific was a staff editor, and is at present the site's managing editor. λ NegativeMP1 16:59, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I guess Hardcore Gamer is different than Siliconera that shouldn't be linked. I don't have issue with the article anymore. Nice work! 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 08:31, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]


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