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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ian Chappell

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 16:28, 18 November 2007.

Ian Chappell

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Self-nomination: this article is about the former Australian cricket captain Ian Chappell. It has had a substantial re-working in the past few months, including the addition of images. Phanto282 17:25, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - I'm not sure if this is possible, but I'd like to see the infobox a bit less wide, as the lead cramps a bit on my screen. However, that may not be feasible, and I have no other concerns. Dihydrogen Monoxide 07:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I massaged the text a bit - the prose had good flow though was a little too informal in places, and paras a little stubby. I can't think of any other issues left out really. congrats. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:47, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - nice work, some suggestions:
    • "bat at first wicket down" - this links to the batting order article but the phrase isn't explained there, so it's a bit jargony, difficult for the non-expert. This is also the case where you describe his idiosyncratic way of playing, the non-expert reader may not understand "playing back and across" and "mid on" etc. It's difficult because those phrases describe precisely what is needed, but the lead needs to catch people's attention, even those who have no understanding of the finer points of cricket.
    • Lead has two nicknames, infobox has one, neither cited.
    • Infobox, space between years and the en-dash not required.
    • "...found the going tough." - POV?
    • Link the Sheffield Cup.
    • "He retired from first-class cricket at the end of the season, aged only 32." - needs citation I think.
    • Ref [81] needs to be placed per WP:CITE
    • "destabilized " - British English is applied throughout but not here.
    • " a relic of the WSC era" - POV.
    • The "Accessed on-line" references should be Cite web'ed, not in-line linked.
    • I hate succession boxes (but that's personal) - the information ought to be encapsulated in the article.

Hope that helps. Give me a shout when you're done. The Rambling Man 08:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply
    • I think this matter is one of style. I notice that the Bill O'Reilly FA discusses O'Reilly's bowling style in a similar manner in the lead. Perhaps someone else would like to comment?
    • Deleted his early nickname, unable to find a cite. His autobiography was titled Chappelli, which is mentioned later in the text.
    • Fixed info box.
    • Altered "found the going tough" to "struggled to make an impression".
    • The Sheffield Shield is already linked.
    • Added cite for his first retirement as requested.
    • Ref [81] appears after the punctuation mark, as per WP:CITE.
    • Altered to "destabilised"
    • I have left "a relic of the WSC era" as it sums up the situation as set out in ref [90], which contains the phrase "Identified with the cause of the board by former Packer signatories," wrote Gideon Haigh, "Hughes was only suffered by them as a skipper." I don't have a cite for this: the problem went back to when Chappell listed the players he wanted for WSC and excluded Hughes. Hughes claimed the opposite, that he had knocked back an offer from WSC to stay loyal to the ACB.
    • List of "ccessed on-line sources" altered.
    • I'm with you on succession box, however I think if I delete them, they will be replaced? Can someone else comment on this as well?

Phanto282 10:38, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I meant ref [82]! The Rambling Man 10:50, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - A very enjoyable read. Just a list of mostly very minor points I have picked up on, but
    • Change 'first wicket down' to 'number 3', and link to [[Batting order (cricket)#Top order]] which more accurately describes the qualities needed.
    • Move the 'Chapelli'/captain section after the Arlott batting description paragraph to keep batting description in one place.
    • 'Since his playing retirement' reads awkwardly for me, for my money I'd try 'After ending his playing career in 197(8?)' or 'Chappell retired from competitive matches in 197x and has since pursued a high-profile career...' (when was it??!)
    • Greg and Trevor, who would also play for Australia. - would scan better for me. (maybe)
    • St. Leonard's primary school - where? Adelaide? Primary School needs caps in this case as it is part of the school's title.
    • Garry Sobers was selected for a Test match... (not needed)
    • Chappell made his initial first-class century against a New South Wales team led by Australian captain Richie Benaud — should read 'Australia captain', otherwise it just shows that Benaud was Australian. (As should the sentence in 'Rebel skipper'
    • Ramsbottom Cricket Club (At first I couldn't decide whether it was a player or a side). Maybe link to [[Ramsbottom#Sports]], or just [[Ramsbottom]].
    • Did he start the 1963–64 season as the youngest member of the side? The sentence seems to make two points that don't quite fit together.
    • "At this point, the selectors and captain Bob Simpson considered him an all-rounder as he batted at number seven and bowled 26 (eight-ball) overs for the match.[17]" — sentence structure not quite right, consider "At this point, Chappell was regarded, by the selectors and captain Bob Simpson, as an all-rounder; he batted at number seven, and bowled 26 (eight-ball) overs in the match."
    • I'd say 'winner-takes-all'.
    • one-all, not 1-all.
    • You can link suspended sentence if you wish.
    • Try: "Chappell struggled to make an impression as Australia lost 3–1."
    • "His highest score was only 49". Just implies that he very nearly didn't quite make it at all.
    • Chappell rewarded the selectors...scoring the most runs on the tour. (Specifies this tour rather than any others).
    • Question: Does 'back play' mean shots played off the back foot? I haven't heard that term specifically.
    • The Ashes needs two caps.
    • big scores- POV. (Are the big scores the 188*, 123, 117 etc.? Or were those for the following series/season?
    • When he became an occasional bowler, did he bowl more or less than as an all-rounder?!
    • Lawry's praise needs a citation.
    • There's a stray " mark at the end of the Gideon Haigh quotation...
    • Politically unacceptable South Africans could do with a reference if you've got can find one.
    • "indifferent pitches" - POV.
    • " "Glorious" " - why the quotation marks? If it is a quote, you need the reference. Otherwise its POV I'm afraid.
    • The 6 catches in the match record - I assume that doesn't include the WK, but it doesn't say so...
    • "he was frequent user of profanity who was often at "boiling point" on the field," - in English please!
    • Adidas needs a cap.
    • Do we need the photo of a family member? A very important one I'm sure, but... Perhaps you would check the guidelines on relevant images. Just a thought anyway.
  • Sorry it seems such a long list, but it shouldn't take long to look through them. I'll then come back and give my support. –MDCollins (talk) 03:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply To deal with your suggestions in order:

    • Changed to "number three", as per this and another suggestion.
    • I don't agree with this one. The Arlott quote is in the middle as a pivot between his captaincy/leading the move to professionalism and the desciption of his batting. That's because I believe Arlott's quote can be taken two ways, ie. with regards to his batting and his general demeanour and attitude.
    • Rephrased as requested
    • ditto
    • Clarified where he grew up & went to school
    • I think this is needed as Sobers was the best player in the world in 1962 and the need for his replacement should be given.
    • "Australia captain" is an awkward phrase, IMO. I have seen "Australian captain" , "English captain" etc. used countless times, doesn't seem to be a problem?
    • Linked Rams-botty
    • Rephrased as requested
    • Added punctuation
    • Rephrased as requested
    • ditto
    • Can't really link to suspended sentence as that refers to a matter dealt with by a court. Technically, it was a suspended suspension, but that sounds a little silly, dunnit? I have added "from the ACB" to clarify that it was a disciplinary measure.
    • Rephrased as requested
    • Removed "just". This was added by a recent editor.
    • Rephrased as requested
    • Rephrased this; "back play" is an old phrase that you don't encounter often these days
    • Capitalised The Ashes throughout
    • Yes, they are the big scores. The sentences in this para all flow into each other in talking about this season. Not sure how saying the scores were big, then listing them, is POV.
    • It is implicit in the term "all-rounder" that he bowls regularly; therefore he became an occasional bowler and bowled occasionally.
    • Lawry's quote is cited in the ref provided.
    • Removed stray punctuation
    • Added ref as requested
    • The comment re West Indian pitches is contained in the ref drawn from Wisden, as cited.
    • It is a quote from Wisden, and it is cited. Used because it was one of his best innings.
    • Clarified that it is a record for a fielder, as requested.
    • Added missing word to the sentence.
    • addidas is not capitalised; the company's registered name uses lower case.
    • Absolutely! Chappell started his career as "Vic Richardson's grandson", just as Greg started as "Ian Chappell's brother". Plus, I think there is an interesting physical resemblance; there was certainly a similarity of attitude. Remember that Richardson wanted to bowl Bodyline back at England, then Chappell had Lillee and Thomson....
Don't be sorry, i'll just sue for RSI :) Phanto282 (talk) 06:43, 17 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mention the few remaining comments:
    • Arlott quote - fine, leave it as is.
    • Sobers replacement - you miss understood, I meant 'Sobers was selected for the Test' rather than 'Sobers was needed for the Test' (I've taken the liberty of adjusting this one!).
    • Re:Australian captain - you usually see England Captain, Arsenal Captain, Scotland captain, but I'm not going to make a fuss over it.
    • suspended sentence - was only a suggestion, so fine.
    • Re: big scores - its not POV if those listed are the big scores, so that's fine.
    • all-rounder/bowling frequency - I've rephrased that if you don't mind so it is a bit easier to understand.
    • Lawry quote - I've duplicated the reference just for ease.
    • "Glorious" - that's ok, it was just that the reference is quite a distance from the the quotation meaning I wasn't sure on first glance that it was reffed. (suggest duplication if you wish).
    • adidas is referred to as Adidas throughout the article, but I'm sure its fine.
  • All in all, it looks good. Well done.
  • Support –MDCollins (talk) 00:45, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - good work. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
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