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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Israeli citizenship law/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by David Fuchs via FACBot (talk) 12 December 2023 [1].

Israeli citizenship law

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Nominator(s): Horserice (talk) 07:05, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Given that recent events have brought this region of the world top of mind for many of us, I wanted to put this article forward for FAC again. This article is about the history and regulations of Israeli citizenship, unique with its basically immediate grants to Jewish immigrants from any part of the world. I completely rewrote this article two years ago and took it through a GA nomination successfully at that time. This article obviously covers a sensitive topic (even more so at this current time) so if there is anything even remotely close to not being sufficiently neutral, please point that out.

Thank you @Artem.G: for your review on the GAN and @BigDom: for your feedback on the first FAC, would be grateful for any further comments you had this time as well. Horserice (talk) 07:05, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from a455bcd9

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Hi, a few comments:

  • Lede: All male and female Jewish citizens, as well as male citizens of Druze and Circassian descent must perform compulsory military service; other non-Jewish citizens and Haredi Jews are exempt from conscription.: how does this relate to the topic? Especially in the lede? We're not going to mention all obligations of Israeli citizens. (same for the "Rights and obligations of citizens" section?)
  • Removed.
  • Other states imposed quotas on the number of Jews who could immigrate from the Soviet Union at the request of the Israeli government: which states?
  • Specified the US and Germany as destination countries.
  • The Supreme Court further elaborated on this in 1970, when it determined that persons who are born to Jewish mothers but do not practice Judaism are considered to be part of the Jewish people as long as they have not converted to another religion. and Both the Chief Rabbinate and Supreme Court consider followers of Messianic Judaism as Christians and specifically bar them from right of return,[44] unless they otherwise have sufficient Jewish descent. seem contradictory to me. Did I misunderstand something?
  • These regulations can be a little strange but this is not contradictory. If a Jew or someone descended from a Jew converts to Messianic Judaism, they would be ineligible for the right of return. However, Messianic Jews descended from Jews and who have never been adherents of Judaism themselves would be eligible because they never actively converted away from Judaism.
  • Children born overseas are Israeli citizens by descent if either parent is a citizen, limited to the first generation born abroad.: what if kids from the second generation are born in a country without jus soli: they're stateless?
  • Added detail on second generation births.
  • Do we have data on the number of people who become citizens per year and per route (Law of Return vs Naturalized non-Jews?)
  • No, the Israeli government only provides information on the number of immigrants arriving in the country rather than the number of new citizens, so there is no information on the number of naturalised non-Jews.
  • Do we have data revocation based on citizenship "fraudulently acquired"?
  • This information also doesn't appear to be disclosed anywhere.
  • Between 2003 and 2015, there were 8,308 people who renounced their Israeli citizenship.: do we know their reasons?
  • Added reasons.
  • Male spouses under the age of 35 and female spouses under 25 originating from the Palestinian territories are prohibited from obtaining citizenship and residency.: what does "originating from the Palestinian territories" mean? If a French citizen born in Ramallah marries an Israeli citizen, can they get Israeli citizenship? What if the spouse "originating from the Palestinian territories" converts to Judaism? What if the spouse has Palestinian Authority passport even though they were born outside Palestine and/or have another passport? What about Palestinian spouses who want to immigrate to Israel at the same time as their Jewish spouses?
  • Added more specific language describing that the restriction is on anyone ordinarily resident in those areas.
  • Added the number of affected Palestinian spouses and briefly elaborated on legal challenges to this legislation. Since there is already an existing article on the Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law, additional coverage on the views of concerned parties would more appropriately be added there. Horserice (talk) 08:23, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks a lot for all the edits. It looks good to me, although I don't know enough about the topic to support. (also: super interesting article!) a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 08:26, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    By the way, I found these sources that may be interesting:
    • Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
    • REPORT ON CITIZENSHIP LAW: ISRAEL (already cited but there are other interesting bits): "there are several restrictions on dual citizens. First, the law prohibits dual citizenship with enemy countries. Second, dual citizens cannot serve as members of the Knesset or fill sensitive security positions. [...] Third, dual citizens must enter Israel with their Israeli passport." "The total number of dual citizens in Israel (with all countries) can be estimated at between 800,000 and 900,000 - about 10% of the country’s population" "For decades, the Druze population of the Golan Heights (about 21,000 persons today) has retained its ties to Syria and its Syrian citizenship. The Golan Druze may apply for Israeli citizenship through naturalisation. Traditionally, very few have done so for fear of being labelled as traitors to Syria. In recent years, however, there is evidence of growing - albeit still small - interest in Israeli citizenship." "East Jerusalem Palestinians may apply to be naturalised as Israeli citizens. Since 1967, however, relatively few of them have done so. This is explained not only by the difficulty of the naturalisation process - which requires knowledge of Hebrew and numerous documents - but mostly by a nationalist-inspired resistance to ‘normalising’ and accepting Israeli control of Jerusalem. [...] Since the mid-2000s, demand for Israeli citizenship has dramatically increased. By 2017, about 20,000 of the 300,000 Palestinian Arabs in Jerusalem have become Israeli citizens, and there is a long backlog of citizenship applications (Shaham 2018)." "Since the 1990s, the number of ‘illegal’ workers has steadily increased, as did the number of children who were born and raised in Israel to labour migrant parents (Kemp 2007; Elias and Kemp 2010). These Israeli-raised, Hebrew-speaking children are referred to as ‘sabra-ghost’ children (Willen 2005): sabra [prickly pear] is a slang term that denotes native Israelis, and the ‘ghost’ refers to their non-recognition by the state where they reside. In response to the increase of these children and civic activism against their deportation, the state formulated two ‘one-time’ naturalisation arrangements in 2005 and 2010, which legalised about 1,000 children."
    • Non-Jewish Minorities and Their Access to Israeli Citizenship
    • The New Second Generation: Non-Jewish Olim, Black Jews and Children of Migrant Workers in Israel: about labour migrants and their kids
    a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 08:49, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Will get around to adding in honorary citizenship info but wanted to answer this question first about enemy states first. If you look at the end of the "Relinquishment and deprivation" section in the article, you'll find the relevent info there. Israel recognizes that there should be a Palestinian state established but does not recognize the current governing authority as a legitimate state, and so would not be listed under the current definition of "enemy state" in Israeli law. Horserice (talk) 18:16, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks. So do Israelis have the right to travel to Palestine or to obtain Palestinian nationality?
    Also: Israeli citizenship may also be revoked from citizens who illegally travel to countries officially declared as enemy states (Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Iran): what does "illegally" mean here? Can Israelis legally travel to these enemy countries without risking to lose their citizenship? And what happens to Syrian Jews, Lebanese Jews, Iraqi Jews, and Persian Jews when they move to Israel and get Israeli citizenship: do they have to renounce their other citizenship? Can they still visit their relatives or friends in their home country? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 08:54, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So do Israelis have the right to travel to Palestine?
Normal Israeli citizens cannot enter the Gaza Strip or Area A of the West Bank. Israeli settlements in Area C of the West Bank function as if they were part of Israel proper, even if are supposedly intended to be gradually transfered to Palestinian control under the Oslo II Accords. So the answer depends on the definition of Palestine in the context of the discussion, but I don't believe this content falls in the scope of this article.
What does "illegally" mean here? Can Israelis legally travel to these enemy countries without risking to lose their citizenship? Do they have to renounce their other citizenship? Can they still visit their relatives or friends in their home country?
You would need exceptional authorization from the governments in question (i.e. you're a diplomat). Even if a normal Israeli citizen could get authorization, considering that they were chased out of these countries in the mid-20th century, their presence does not seem welcome. And no, they wouldn't have to renounce their citizenship because these individuals would have acquired Israeli citizenship by right of return, which does not require renouncing previous nationalities. Horserice (talk) 10:31, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. You wrote "And no, they wouldn't have to renounce their citizenship because these individuals would have acquired Israeli citizenship by right of return, which does not require renouncing previous nationalities." but the REPORT ON CITIZENSHIP LAW: ISRAEL says: there are several restrictions on dual citizens. First, the law prohibits dual citizenship with enemy countries. Second, dual citizens cannot serve as members of the Knesset or fill sensitive security positions.
I get that acquisition of citizenship by right of return does not require renouncing previous nationalities but how is this applied with the ban on dual citizenship with enemy countries (which I assume only applies to those who emigrated via the Law of Return as others cannot benefit from any kind of dual citizenship anyway).
Another question: does the obligation to renounce any foreign nationalities apply only in the past or also in the future? Can a naturalized Israeli citizen get a foreign citizenship later? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 17:42, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The ban is on newly acquiring citizenship of those countries, as stated in section 11a of the Citizenship Law. This is more intended to prevent Arab Israelis from receiving citizenship from those places. The condition to renounce foreign nationalities to acquire Israeli citizenship is only a requirement at the time of acquisition; naturalized Israelis are free to acquire foreign citizenships if desired. Horserice (talk) 21:31, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK, thanks for the clarification.
Regarding the infobox:
  • Ugh this is not actually dead, but it seems the Knesset site now requires connecting from an Israeli IP. Unclear if temporary but probably related to the war.
  • Title: "Citizenship Law, 5712-1952", even though the article is broader then just this piece of legislation (especially the 1950 Law of Return?)
  • Yeah I think it's fine. It's the main piece of legislation concerning this subject. The Law of Return technically contains nothing on citizenship requirements and almost all other laws covered in scope are just amendments to the Citizenship Law.
  • "Repeals Palestinian Citizenship Order 1925": is this legally correct? I don't think so as The Order remained in effect until 14 May 1948, when the British withdrew from the Mandate, and Palestinian citizenship came to an end. ("related_legislation =" could be used instead?)
a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 17:25, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Process discussion moved to talk page. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 10:00, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I wondered: are there discussions about reforming/changing the law? (for instance people who want to apply the law of return only to the first generation?) Do RS also address how the law would be impacted by a one-state solution or two-state solution? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 11:45, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Hawkeye7

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  • Article looks good to me.
  • ☺
  • Obligatory typo: "fradulently"
  • Fixed.
  • Is there a difference between Law of Return and Right of Return?
  • The Law of Return is the piece of legislation granting the entitlement for all Jews to enter Israel as olim. This entitlement is described as the "right of return".
  • "This law was amended several times" To what end?
  • Changed content to describe changes.
  • Done.

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:01, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

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  • "a specific meaning encompassing the national constituency": I think this means something like "a broader definition of what qualifies a person as an Israeli national"; is that right? I don't think this is very clear as written to those unfamiliar with the topic. If I have that right, the next sentence gives the relevant details so perhaps this whole sentence could be cut to "In the Israeli context, nationality is not linked to a person's origin from a particular territory but is more broadly defined".
  • Rephrased.
  • "Any person born outside of these conditions who held no other nationality and were": tense mismatch between "any person" and "were".
  • Fixed.
  • "Despite Britain's sovereignty over Palestinian territory, domestic law treated the mandate as foreign territory." Suggest "British domestic law" to avoid a reader initially assuming this refers to Palestinian domestic law.
  • Rephrased.
  • Is the 1952 Citizenship Law worth a red link?
  • Hmmm I lean towards not doing this since I think that overlap with this article would be quite high.
  • The sentence starting "Male spouses under the age of 35 ..." doesn't make it clear if this restriction ceases to apply once the spouse exceeds the given age, or if this is defined as of the age at marriage.
  • Added "until the relevant age".
  • How did the 2003 prevent cohabitation for those couples? Surely all it could do was make it illegal, or discourage it by applying penalties?
  • Added elaboration.
  • "which would lapse on the death of their spouses or if they fail to receive": tense/mood mismatch. "or if they were to fail" would work.
  • Fixed.
  • " The court further ruled that because Israel was in a state of war with the Palestinian National Authority ..., that Israel held a right to": the second "that" is redundant. Cutting it would make the sentence hard to parse so a rephrase is probably in order.
  • Rephrased.
  • "until the law's expiration in July 2021, before later being reimplemented in March 2022." Suggest "before being reimplemented by a new law in March 2022", to make it clear this was a legislative reimplementation. And "later" is redundant since you give dates.
  • Rephrased.

Overall this looks in very good shape and I expect to support once these minor issues are resolved. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:46, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look! Horserice (talk) 08:51, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Fixes look good. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:36, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image & source review

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Is File:British Colonial passport for Palestine issued by Albert Montefiore Hyamson in 1929.jpg a work by the Israeli or by the UK government? ALT text, placement and licencing are OK. Viz sources, it seems like the article is using distinct types of sources so different source informations are to be expected. Some sources have only a JSTOR and others both DOI and JSTOR. It seems like the sources seem to be appropriate ... but I can't help but notice that the article has very little discussion on commentary on the law. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm actually unsure how you would classify the image since it would have been a work of the government of the British mandate in Palestine. The Israeli government obviously didn't exist at the time but is a successor state to the mandate.
Regarding the note about commentary, any particular area you think would benefit from more color? Horserice (talk) 17:31, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, critiques or support for the law, change proposals and who makes them, why and who supports or opposes them, etc. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:27, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dudley

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  • "Israel was formerly administered by the British Empire as part of a League of Nations mandate for Palestine". This is unclear. 1. It does not make sense to say that Israel was part of a mandate. If I understand correctly, it was part of the territory covered by the mandate, which also covered what is now Jordan. 2. Presumably modern Israel is larger than the area which was under the mandate. This is obviously not for the lead, but should be briefly covered in the main text.
  • Slightly changed lead and added sentences on the application/exclusion of the mandate on Jordan and French mandate on the Golan Heights.
  • "citizenship refers to the set of rights and duties a person has in that nation". This seems to me misleading. You can say that someone holds joint citizenship in Sweden and Peru or that someone has joint Swedish and Peruvian nationality. Dictionaries show the words as near synomyms in their primary meaning but with different secondary meanings. This does not apply of course to their specific Israeli usage.
  • Which is why the preceding sentence mentions that this usage varies by country. For example, you could not say that someone holds dual UK/US citizenship as a synonym for dual UK/US nationality since it is possible to hold both UK and US nationality without being citizens of either place.
  • 'Entitlement by birth, descent, or adoption' section. This section presumably applies only to non-Jewish citizens. This should be clarified.
  • The descent portion applies to Jewish Israeli citizens born overseas. Regulations on adoption would still apply in cases where an adoptee is Jewish because the new parents still have to establish themselves as parents.
  • "Male spouses under 35 and female spouses under 25 ordinarily resident in the Judea and Samaria Area or the Gaza Strip (excluding Israeli settlements within those areas)". This is out of date as there have been no settlements in the Gaza Strip since 2005. Also, very few non-Israelis will understand Judea and Samaria Area, so it would be helpful to add "(West Bank)". Dudley Miles (talk) 11:49, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Ceoil

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Not sure this is actionable, and while I realise this is an article on legal status, I find it very dry and lacking context. The page lists a lot of judgement, but does examine the reasoning. This is not an oppose, just a question on scope. Ceoil (talk) 02:56, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To note have been closely following the FAC (since requested to cmt by the nominator), and have made minor edits, and think it is FAC worthy as is, but just think that more historical and political context would move it from "good" to "really good" status. Sorry for the relatively vague demand! Ceoil (talk) 03:01, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Ceoil: FYI still doing some reading to try to add more color to the article. It was relatively easier with the Irish nationality law article since a lot of the disputes with Britain specifically dealt with citizenship, but with Israel it’s a bit harder to do so without sounding biased so this will take a bit of time. Horserice (talk) 00:02, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I did feel lost at times, wondering what drove particular rulings. Ceoil (talk) 00:09, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notwithstanding the above, Support on the FAC criteria. Ceoil (talk) 23:17, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Buidhe

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I believe the reference to the Golan Heights is misleading. It is administered by Israel and was purportedly annexed by Israel (the correct term to use in terms of international law—eg see here), but its claim is not considered valid by virtually every other country in the world. It is even less correct to refer to it as part of Israel as referring to Crimea as part of Russia. (t · c) buidhe 18:42, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Horserice, any response? Gog the Mild (talk) 14:48, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Gog the Mild: Slipped through the cracks, my bad.
@Buidhe: I've added some elaboration on the status of these areas. Horserice (talk) 16:06, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's an improvement, but it is also the case that Israel's purported annexation of East Jerusalem is not generally recognized by the international community either. (t · c) buidhe 17:46, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The last sentence mentions both territories. Is that not sufficient? Horserice (talk) 21:18, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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