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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Kediri campaign (1678)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 25 May 2019 [1].

Kediri campaign (1678)

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Nominator(s): HaEr48 (talk) 06:24, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a military campaign in Java involving the the Mataram Sultanate, the Dutch East India Company, and the forces of Trunajaya. I've tried to consult all sources I can get my hands on. This time and place isn't exactly very well documented, but surprisingly I think there's enough here to try nominating it for FA. HaEr48 (talk) 06:24, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support by PM

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I reviewed this in detail at Milhist ACR in October last year, and have examined the pretty minor changes since. I consider it meets the Featured criteria. The only thing I can see is a couple of duplicate links; east Java in the lead, also Madura and Batavia in the Background section. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:14, 19 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your review. I removed all the duplicate links. HaEr48 (talk) 14:24, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Gog the Mild

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I also reviewed this fine article at ACR. I have a few minor comments:

  • I have made some minor copy edits which you will want to check.
  • Thanks. Apart from a minor mistake around "slighted" they look good to me.
  • Seven sentences start with "However", which seems excessive. IMO at least four are superfluous.
  • Removed many of them. Now we have only three. In these remaining three, I think they are useful to indicate contrasts with the previous sentence.
  • "The Kediri campaign (also, for the Dutch, Hurdt's Expedition or The Kediri Expedition)" "campaign" has a lower case c, both uses of "Expedition" have upper case E. Why?
  • made them all consistent (lowercase)
  • "in Kediri, East Java (in modern-day East Java, Indonesia)" Is it necessary to state "East Java" a second time?
  • removed the first one
  • "Accounts of the campaign also appear in the Javanese chronicles, also known as babads." "also" appears twice; is the second one necessary?
  • removed the second one
  • "Despite his long administrative service in Eastern Indonesia, at this time Hurdt actually had no experience" Delete "actually".
  • Done
  • "who insisted on the payment of 1,000 Rds." "Rds." is an abbreviation, which should be given in full at first mention.

Gog the Mild (talk) 19:48, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Gog the Mild: Thank you for the review HaEr48 (talk) 03:09, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
All of my minor quibbles addressed. Happy to support. Great work. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:20, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review

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  • Verifiability: I was unable to carry out any meaningful spotchecks. The main source (Richlefs 93) does not provide me with previews, and other sources provide links to previews which do not cover the required page ranges. According to the A class review, spotchecks were carried out at that time.
  • Links to sources are all working
  • Formats: In a couple of refs, 33 and 35, spaces are required after "p."
  • Quality and reliability: So far as I am able to judge, the sources used are of the appropriate standards of quality and reliability as required by the FAC criteria. Brianboulton (talk) 22:04, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Brianboulton: Thanks for the review. I fixed the missing spaces. As for spotchecking, it is indeed to find Ricklefs 93 online, even partially. If you're interested, Pigeaud 1976 (one of the referenced works) is available online with open access (I believe you can download the entire book as pdf). It contains a general account of this campaign although not as detailed as in Ricklefs. HaEr48 (talk) 23:54, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

FunkMonk

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  • I've written a bunch of articles about birds that were driven to extinction partially by VOC activities, looking forward to learning a bit more about it soon. FunkMonk (talk) 08:00, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is this[2] image of any use?
    • I doubt it will be a big improvement. The best match would be the Background section, but it already has a map which is more useful than a children book illustration. HaEr48 (talk) 13:31, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "also, for the Dutch" Sounds a bit informal, how about "in Dutch sources" or some such?
  • I wonder if the image captions should have some more links, especially the one in the infobox.
  • " (known by its Dutch acronym, the "VOC")" Spell out the Dutch name too?
  • "Amangkurat sought help from the Dutch East India Company" Do we know why he chose them?
    • I can't find anything specific in the source, but it was probably an obvious choice as the Dutch was the other major power in Java other than Mataram and Trunajaya HaEr48 (talk) 13:31, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and King Amangkurat I died during his retreat" Died from what?
  • "as well as the possibly booty" Possible?
  • "bank of this river, and finding a way to cross the river proved" Could the second "river" maybe be replaced with "it" or similar to avoid repetition?
  • Looks like the rebels were quite well equipped, where did they get their gear from? Did they get support from western powers?
  • "VOC's Malay troops'" Link Malay?
  • "The Javanese chronicle (babad)" What is this, anything to link to? I see you link to babads in the intro, could be in the article body too.
  • "Nevertheless, the VOC continued to fight on his side until the end of the war" Could it be quickly summarised here how the war ended? Or is all there is to say that Trunajaya was captured?
    • Updated the first paragraph of #Aftermath. Hope that clarifies.
  • Why is the intro not in chronological order like the article?
    • My idea is the first para contains a summary of the campaign, while the second para contains notable details that would be too distracting to add to the first para. What do you think? HaEr48 (talk) 14:07, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Should be fine if no one else brings it up. FunkMonk (talk) 05:49, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The army marched through areas previously unexplored by the Dutch." This does not seem to be mentioned in the article body.
    • Added now: It was particularly difficult for the VOC forces, who marched through areas previously unexplored by them and were unfamiliar with the conditions of the Javanese interior HaEr48 (talk) 13:31, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by CPA-5

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  • I don't reckon we need two the same citations in one paragraph where it isn't unbroken by an other citation like.
    • @CPA-5: Is there any MOS or FA criteria that forbids this? If not I prefer to keep it as is because it makes it easier to insert stuff into the paragraph without messing the citation. For example, If we have Sentence 1. Sentence 2.[1][2], and then we have another sentence 3[3] to be added in between, it will not be easy to add without having access to the sources and finding the relations between Sentence 1, Sentence 2 and citation 1 and citation 2. This happened to me often when I edited an article long after it was initially written. Having per-sentence citation avoids that pain. HaEr48 (talk) 16:40, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @HaEr48: Hello about this one. In my view the other citations are more uncenssary than useful. However I personally don't reckon we should add extra citations in almost every end of sentence. At the end of the citations's claim there should be a citation not at end of almost every sentence. Of course it doesn't mean it ought have to be like in my opinion likewise it's steel an opinion. I mean one of my comments I told you "Suggest ordering the refs numerically here.". Which MOS or FA criteria doesn't mentioned it was more a suggestion than a real MOS rule. Why? Because it looks beter and it looks so odd to look at. Anyway it is just a suggestion. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 17:22, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • defeated the royal army at Gegodog in 1676,[7] and captured most of the Javanese north coast by January 1677.[7] Remove the first citation.
  • What happened in Mataram was of a great importance to the VOC, because Batavia could not survive without food imports from central and eastern Java.[9] The VOC also depended on timber from the Javanese north coast in order to build and repair ships for its trading fleet, and for new construction in the city.[9] Same as above.
  • In May 1677, the VOC dispatched a large fleet to Surabaya, where Trunajaya held his court, and drove him out of the city.[11] He retreated inland to establish a new rebel capital in Kediri, the capital city of the ancient Kediri Kingdom.[11][12] Same as above.
  • Mataram's behalf up to October.[17] In further agreements, he agreed to cede districts east of Batavia, as well as Semarang, Salatiga and its surrounding districts, and awarded the company a monopoly on the imports of textiles and opium into Mataram, as well as on the purchase of sugar from the Sultanate.[17] Same as above.
  • way for a more aggressive campaign.[19] Speelman became director-general replacing the promoted van Goens.[19] Same as above.
  • When the campaign began, the Mataram forces numbered 3,000 armed men and 1,000 porters.[21] As the march progressed, new troops were levied along the way, and some lords declared their allegiance to the Mataram King, enlarging the royal army to 13,000 men.[21] Same as above.
  • various towns.[22] An additional expeditionary force of 1,400 arrived at the start of the campaign.[22] Same as above.
  • The size of Trunajaya's forces is uncertain.[2] VOC-Mataram reports put the number at 1,000, but later, Trunajaya's uncle Pangeran Sampang said that Trunajaya's followers numbered 14,500 just before the assault on Kediri.[2] Same as above.
  • particularly on the eastern side of the river where Kediri stood.[2] Trunajaya's artillery generally outgunned the loyalists', and at some point the camps of Hurdt and Amangkurat were hit by his cannons.[2] Same as above.
  • European military technologies.[28] The VOC had an advantage in terms of discipline, strategy, and tactics, but not technology.[28] Same as above.
  • lengthy overland routes.[29] He wanted the VOC-Mataram forces to march slowly through more areas in order to impress factions that were wavering over which side to take.[29] Same as above.
  • overland march.[21] To the east, a column led by Captains Abraham Daniel van Renesse and Frederik Hendrik Mulder left Rembang on 26 August.[21] Meanwhile, the central column, which was to be the main force, was mobilized in Jepara led by Hurdt and Amangkurat. The central column sent advance detachments southward on 27 August and 2 September, while Hurdt and Amangkurat departed on 5 September.[21] Remove the first two citations.
  • poor navigation.[21][23] The march included several river crossings, which were made difficult by the lack of bridges, rivers swollen by heavy rain, as well as bogged down wagons and cannons.[21][23] Remove the first two citations.
  • Javanese interior.[23] Hurdt wanted to stay in the Semanggi River valley, and to continue the campaign in the following year. Amangkurat preferred to keep marching, and his opinion prevailed.[23] Remove the first citation.
  • passed through.[23] Many were previously loyal to Kajoran, who sided with Trunajaya, or were wavering between the two sides.[23] Same as above.
  • east bank.[2] These were equipped with cannons of various sizes up to twelve-pounders.[2] Trunajaya's artillery continuously pounded the loyalists, even reaching Hurdt and Amangkurat's lodgings, as well as the army's field hospital.[2] The loyalist army also had cannons, but it did not return fire, saving its limited ammunition for the eventual attack on Kediri.[2] In addition, Trunajaya's cavalry engaged in skirmishes with the loyalists, causing casualties and undermining their morale.[2] On 21 October, a night attack led by Raden Suradipa burned the VOC's Malay troops' quarters.[2] Remove the first five citations.
  • several people.[32] The VOC later moved these supplies inside a palisade fortification built in the aftermath of Suradipa's attack.[32] Same as above.
  • cross the river.[32] Forces led by Dutch commander Isaac de Saint Martin drove Trunajaya's forces from Manukan, on the west bank further south from Singkal.[32] They tried to cross the river there, but were unsuccessful due to heavy opposing fire and the depth of the water.[32] They made another attempt on the night of 6–7 November, but their boats were sunk and it too failed.[32] Hurdt was frustrated by the lack of progress, and gave Amangkurat an ultimatum that the VOC would withdraw unless the King supplied pontoons for the crossing, and matches for its soldiers's matchlocks.[32] This whole paragraph need only one citation.
  • 16–17 November.[24] The Javanese chronicle (babad) attributed this to Amangkurat's supernatural powers, and said that this happened as Amangkurat personally rode across the river leading his troops.[24] The army's foot soldiers crossed in boats at Curing, just south of Singkal.[24] Those on horseback did not need boats. [24] The river was about 115 metres (126 yd) wide at the crossing.[24] Trunajaya's forces bombarded them with artillery as they crossed, before being driven out, leaving eleven cannons behind.[24] Same as above.
  • heavy losses.[24] The VOC suffered light casualties of 7 dead and 27 wounded.[24] Remove the first citation.
  • abandoned court.[24] The Mataram treasury, brought to Kediri by the rebels after their sack of the Mataram capital in 1677, was among the targets of the looting.[24] Amangkurat and the VOC had hoped to recover this treasury and use it to pay for the VOC's assistance in the war, but it was completely looted by the soldiers instead.[24] Same as above.
  • later historians.[41] Dutch historian H. J. de Graaf opined that the King would later consider this event as a symbol of the European's condescension and that they were instrumental to the King's legitimacy.[41] Same as above.
  • their ammunition.[41] The rest, including Amangkurat and de Saint Martin, left overland on 18 December.[41] Heavy currents and the rainy season made this journey difficult.[41] The river convoy arrived in Surabaya on 17 December having lost some boats and men.[41] Remove the first three citations.
  • by floods.[41] Some managed to reach Surabaya by boat, and the rest arrived on 5 January having travelled overland.[41] Remove the first citation.
  • a city with which he was familiar.[42] He was descended from the former dynasty of Surabaya through his mother, and was once a viceroy of East Java during his father's reign.[42] Subsequently, Hurdt and other VOC officers left for Batavia.[42] Christiaan Poleman took over the command of the VOC forces in East Java.[42] This whole paragraph need only one citation.
  • VOC 310,000 Spanish reals and about 5,000 metric tons of rice No imperial/US units?
  • Which English do you use? Because I see some American/British spelling differences like.
  • metric tons (American English)
  • armour (British English)
  • cannons (American English)
  • travelling (British English)
  • metres (British English)
  • kilometres (British English)
  • center (American English)
  • to Amangkurat and join his forces.[23][21] Suggest ordering the refs numerically here.
  • 800 ox-carts carrying supplies.[32][23] Same as above.
  • importance in Javanese royal protocol.[41][23] Same as above.

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 19:12, 17 May 2019 (UTC) @CPA-5: Thanks for the review. HaEr48 (talk) 16:51, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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