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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Monte Ne/archive3

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 17:04, 10 June 2007.

Monte Ne

edit

previous FAC

Third nomination. Was not promoted before because of copy editing issues and lack of inline citation. Both of these should have been fixed. --The_stuart 21:27, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Lots of work to be done here. I correct the footnote placement using Gimmetrow's ref fixer; since most of them were wrong, you might want to review WP:FN to learn to place footnotes correctly. Please review all of the section headings per WP:MSH. References need to be formatted; see WP:CITE/ES. Footnotes are not completely formatted: some contain imbedded links, many are missing author and publication date. The article is in need of wikilinking, for example, Harvey chose the name Monte Ne, supposedly combining the Spanish and Omaha Indian words for mountain water ... (there is a link for the Omaha Indian tribe). There's another problem with that sentence: Monte is not the Spanish word for mountain; it's the Spanish word for a weedpatch, weeds, wilderness or woods. Mountain is montaña. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
To address your comment about Mountain≠Monte, the article doesn't claim that Monte is Spanish for Mountain, only that that is what Harvey thought. Any source you look at will give the same description for the origin of the name. --The_stuart 19:56, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • In addition to Sandy's points, identical footnotes need to be combined. Instead of "Lord, Allyn. Historic Monte Ne (Images of America), 49", I'd recommend simply "Allyn, 49". Non-free images need article-specific fair use rationale. There are still prose issues; count the alsos in this passage, all of which can be dropped: "and is also the only structure of Monte Ne still standing. Monte Ne also had the first indoor swimming pool in Arkansas,[2] and one of the earliest golf courses in the world;[3] it was also the site of the only presidential convention ever in Arkansas.[4]" Pagrashtak 17:13, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed the long ref complaint. Don't really understand the comment about the "non-free images" I took all of the new pictures myself and the rest are all in the public domain.--The_stuart 22:39, 18 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]
The image description page for this image says it is copyrighted. You still need to combine identical footnotes, one footnote does not display, and many are not formatted properly. You may find {{Cite web}} useful. Pagrashtak 00:04, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I still don't understand, that is a logo, and from what I can tell it complies fully with WP:LOGOS. --The_stuart 19:30, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Look at the text of the tag on the image. "This tag is meaningless without an accompanying fair use rationale which must be unique to the usage of THIS image in each article in which it is used." (emphasis not mine) That image does not have fair use rationale. Pagrashtak 14:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Tried to come up with rational, does that satisfy you?--The_stuart 22:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This article needs much work. The biggest issue is the prose style. A lot of the sentences are short and simplistic and really don't read well. I've listed a few examples later, but there are a lot of them.


  • "Eventually it went bankrupt" - why not just say, in 19xx, the community went bankrupt.
Because the community as a whole never went bankrupt, the various ventures did one by one and this is covered thuroughly in the article. Edited article to reflect this. --The_stuart 20:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • You need to use the conversion templates on measurements. All measurements should have both standard and metric.
Done.--The_stuart 20:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Acres also has a metric equivalent. Some of your conversions appear to be in improper units (from square feet to meters? should be from square feet to meters squared). When you have two measurements (25 x 50 ft), you need 2 metric measurements as well. Also, please be consistent in the number of digits you use past the period, and please link the first instance of the conversion pair (use lk=on in the template) Karanacs 15:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. --The_stuart 22:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The history section has flow issues. It appears to jump back and forth in time, which confuses me.
    • First paragraph mentions Harvey, then the dates the resort was built, then jumps back 10 years to talk about Harvey again.
Removed dates, not necessary in this paragraph --The_stuart 20:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Harvey's other son, Hal, and his wife Anna and sister Annette joined them later." Whose wife and sister were Anna and Annette, Harvey's or Hal's?
"Harvey's other son Hal, wife Anna, and sister Annette joined them later." How's that? --The_stuart 20:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "after its destruction Anna left Monte Ne" This is the first time in the section that you talk about Monte Ne by name. Since the lead says it was a resort, and the paragraph says they lived in a single house, this needs to be rewritten to "Anna left the area" (and where did she go?)
She went back to Chicago, fixed. --The_stuart 20:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • The paragraph on industries in Monte Ne reads more like a list. Is there a way to make it flow a little better?
Tried to add more to make it not seem so list like. --The_stuart 20:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "After 1910, Harvey and Monte Ne began facing serious setbacks" Then you go on to list events that happened years or decades earlier before jumping to events that happened after WWI.
Tried to make it flow better. --The_stuart 20:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Moving in the right direction, but not there yet. "Sadly, the next decade" - remove "Sadly," it makes this sound more like a magazine article.
Removed sadly, and did some more work on the paragraph.--The_stuart 22:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Missing citations:
    • "Harvey stocked the waters with fish to ensure a good catch for the guests."
Removed. Don't know where that came from. --The_stuart 20:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • The theme song for Monte Ne
Done --The_stuart 20:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "The bank building was also bought in 1944 by D. L. King of Rogers, who remodeled it and made it home to his Atlas Manufacturing Company which produced poultry equipment. However, he moved it back to Rogers the next year. The building then stood idle, becoming victim to vandalism. All of its windows were smashed and it became covered in graffiti. Eventually, it was nothing more than an empty, roofless, cement shell."
Fixed. --The_stuart 18:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "The flooded Monte Ne become a site of interest for scuba divers who dive by the amphitheater to get a look at the submerged structure. However, the water of Beaver Lake is cold and murky, making this a somewhat uncomfortable and unproductive exercise."
This seems to me to be common knowledge or easily extrapolated from given information. --The_stuart 18:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • First paragraph of Remains of Monte Ne section
  • Prose Issues:
    • "from a Reverend J. G. Bailey" - remove the "a"
What? --The_stuart 20:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ok now I think I understand what you are saying, fixed. --The_stuart 17:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "He made a lot of money silver mining in Colorado, but Monte Ne seems to have been funded mostly by the sale of his books—mainly on the subject of free silver."
Your change still seems to leave the two clauses sounding awkward. In the first half, Henry is the subject and in the second half Monte Ne is the subject. Is there a way to reword that so the subjects match? Karanacs 18:56, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "With individual investments of $52,000, and his own $48,000 investment." - incomplete sentence
Fixed. --The_stuart 18:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Harvey began work on his resort in 1901 in great haste." - why was he in great haste? What did he do that it made it seem he was in great haste?
    • "first hotel to be completed was the Hotel Monte Ne in April 1901, which was opened in May of the same year" - simple is better.
fixed.--The_stuart 18:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "As was the case with Hotel Monte Ne, Missouri Row featured long porches-575 feet" - why the dash and the number, that seems to break the flow.
Fixed.--The_stuart 18:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How about -- As was the case with Hotel Monte Ne, Missouri Row featured 575-foot (xx m) long porches? Karanacs 18:56, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "strike delayed construction, but by the end of May, a full workforce was in place" -- need 2 commas here or none.
Fixed. --The_stuart 18:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "but when the hotel opened finally" - change to "when the hotel finally opened"
Fixed. --The_stuart 22:38, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Cannon balls and shells from the Pea Ridge battlefield were sunk into the cement porch on either side of the main entrance" - Why?
I suppose decoration, but known of my sources say why. --The_stuart 18:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Good enough, I was curious. Karanacs 18:56, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Multiple red links
  • How did people get to Monte Ne before the railroad?
Changed to reflect the lack of adequate roads and emphasize the need for a railroad. --The_stuart 17:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Be consistent in how you treat numbers which begin sentences. In some cases, you spell out the number; in other cases you don't.
Can you give some examples of this. I've looked through the article and haven't found any that I think need to be changed. I always believed that numbers below ten should be spelled out and higher should just be written as numbers. Is this not the case? --The_stuart 17:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "14,000 oak railway ties were laid running through Cross Hollows, South of Rogers, where two definitive ravines met" Why is South capitalized? What is definitive about the ravines?
Fixed--The_stuart 18:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Full dates need to be wikilinked..
Fixed. --The_stuart 22:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Check your use of colons. I think they are overused in the article, especially the railroad section.
  • "They planned to build eastward to Eureka Springs" -- Who is they?
AO&W, fixed. --The_stuart 18:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the Frisco would not allow a connection" - why not?
"Frisco line was in the way and they would not allow a connection." How's that? --The_stuart 18:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A very expensive underpass of the Frisco was finally built, and still exists" - who built it?

by AO&W, fixed. --The_stuart 18:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How about -- "AO&W instead built an expensive underpass of the Frisco; this still exists." Karanacs 18:56, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. --The_stuart 22:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and the building was designed again by A. O. Clarke." - it's unlikely this building was designed twice. Please rephrase..

Fixed. --The_stuart 18:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • "He used the Monte Ne Herald," - newspaper names should be italicized

Fixed.--The_stuart 18:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Harvey's health and Monte Ne fail" - this is not a good heading. Maybe "Harvey's health and Monte Ne Failure," or just "Failure"
Done. --The_stuart 18:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think more of the article should have wikilinks.
Article has around 78 wikilinks. --The_stuart 18:45, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think there is too much biographical information for Harvey mixed in with this article. He does have his own article, and you should be able to consolidate or eliminate some of the biography to make this focused more on Monte Ne.
Not sure how to do this since his life and Monte Ne were so intertwined, can you give any specific examples of what you think can go? --The_stuart 19:08, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nowhere in the article do you explicitly point out why the site was placed on the National Historic Register. I think this is a big oversight.
Fixed. --The_stuart 19:08, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Karanacs 15:18, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I went through and adjusted the metric conversions, some might need a little more work, but now they are correct. I also added some more wikilinks. I'll keep the article watchlisted and see what transpires.--MONGO 07:35, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
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