Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Morgan Bulkeley/archive1

< Wikipedia:Featured article candidates
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by FrB.TG via FACBot (talk) 7 February 2024 [1].

Morgan Bulkeley

edit
Nominator(s): Wehwalt (talk) 13:14, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about... Morgan Bulkeley, a Gilded Age politician like many another, except that he's in the Baseball Hall of Fame because in 1876, when yet another baseball league was being organized, he was asked to be president, and this happened to be "the league that lasted", as one book about it puts it, the National League. He also had the guts to oppose Teddy Roosevelt and William Howard Taft over the infamous Brownsville Affair, and he spent almost half a century as president of Aetna Life. What more can you ask?Wehwalt (talk) 13:14, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eddie

edit
  • Interested in reviewing. Eddie891 Talk Work 14:06, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He took a job with Lydia Bulkeley's brother, Henry Morgan, leaving Hartford to work for his uncle's company, H. P. Morgan & Company, in Brooklyn, New York, beginning by learning the dry goods trade and remaining almost twenty years, eventually becoming a partner" this sentence might be better broken up, for readability.
  • ditto with "During the Civil War, Bulkeley served as a private with the 13th Regiment of the New York Militia. His younger brother, William Bulkeley, who had also come to Brooklyn to work at the Morgan store, went on ninety day's active service in 1861 while Morgan Bulkeley joined the home guard, presumably so that Henry Morgan would not be deprived of the assistance of both of them"
  • "Despite minimal service in the Civil War, the conflict had a considerable effect on Morgan Bulkeley's life, both because of the change of position in the family, and because after the war, he became deeply involved in such veterans' groups as the Grand Army of the Republic (GAR)" Does this sentence really add anything? You already mention change of position, and later talk about GAR
The death of his brother shifted his life. I think it's worth pointing out, as was the way he tried to make up his rather minimal service by leading veterans' groups.
  • "At a meeting in New York on February 2, 1876, four team presidents from the East, including Bulkeley, and four from further west, " is there a reason East is capitalized, but not west?
Because the reader's conception of the West is not what it was in 1876. The teams were, I believe Chicago, Cincinnati, Louisville and St. Louis. So I'm trying to show the geographic bridging without using dated terminology.
  • "David L. Fleitz in his book on little-known Baseball Hall of Fame figures, stated, " feel like a comma might be out of place here?
Fair enough.
  • " refused to allow his team's scores to be reported where fans not attending the game gathered, something the Chicago Tribune deemed a stupid idea" how would he ensure that happened?
Refused to allow a Western Union typographer and had a running battle with people dropping the score from the top of the bleachers to the street outside. Eventually, he more or less gave up. I'm not sure the reader needs the details.
  • "for the game. and his businesses and other interests," Period probably should be a comma, or and should be removed?
Comma.
  • "Bulkeley, unable to boost attendance, sold the team" I didn't realize that he owned the team?
I've made it clearer that he had an interest in the team.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:28, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Inflation templates may be beneficial for some of the figures, such as Aetna's assets
I've always had my doubts on this, and since we are taking figures from different times, it may give incorrect inferences about how much he grew the business.
  • "Among the techniques ... Among the new lines of insurance" Suggest varying phrasing
  • "the minimum required return on investment" Required here by?
It doesn't say, but Aetna was regulated under Connecticut law.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:28, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • " He worked to increase his popularity (supplying the illuminations for the opening of the Connecticut State Capitol in 1879)" Suggest breaking up this sentence
  • " According to his biographer, Kevin Murphy," Winslow or Bulkeley's biographer?
  • "Bulkeley suffered from occasional illness in his final years" Presumably, like most people, he suffered from occasional illness his whole life.
Rejigged.

That's a first read through. Interesting work. Eddie891 Talk Work 14:41, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I think I've gotten to or responded to everything.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:28, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Eddie891 Talk Work 16:09, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review from Vami

edit
Hi Vami_IV, that's a bit enigmatic. Could you unpack it a little for the slow of wit among us? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:46, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is a reply that aged poorly. When I wrote this, the Eddie hadn't reviewed yet, so I was saying that I would also review this article. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 18:55, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources are reliable. There are some from publishers of no repute, but I know from experience how useful local histories are and the nominator is, uh, Wehwalt. Benefit of the doubt. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 23:55, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One thing I wonder is whether Charles W. Burpee is a prominent enough author, given that S. J. Clarke Publishing Company was apparently self-publishing. Has the history of Ætna Life Insurance Company been cited by anyone else? Seeing as it's implicitly self-published, too. What is "William R. Goodspeed"? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:31, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't familiar with the Clarke company, I would say Charles W. Burpee qualifies as a subject-matter expert on Connecticut as a prominent local newspaper editor, and WP:SPS says "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications." The source is used cautiously (once) and then only for a direct quotation.
Regarding the Hooker book, a quick Google Books search shows that it has been cited a number of times, most prominently by the major biography on Bulkeley, see here.
William R. Goodspeed is a publisher that dealt in publishing local histories. Interestingly, the URL is from the Connecticut legislature's site.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:10, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Spot-check
  • [2]: Only copy of this book that I could immediately access is an epub version on Google Books. I found a mention of six children surviving to adulthood.
Take a look, if you can access it, on page 12, "After Morgan, there were three more children, but of the three only William Henry and Mary Jerusha survived. The sixth and youngest child, Eliphalet Adams Bulkeley Jr. was born in Hartford in 1847, but died a year later. In short, only four of the Bulkeleys’ six children made it to adulthood, and these four were all born in East Haddam." Also dying was the oldest child, Mary Morgan Bulkeley, of a fall at age 20 months. I just cited from the family tree page, but it's all borne out by the text."--Wehwalt (talk) 00:43, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • [10]: All good here. I will note that I found a copy of Hooker 1956 on the Internet Archive. Please consider adding a link in the citation format.
Added.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:36, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • [22]: The quotation used is indeed in the book used (per the ISBN), but it's on page 10, not 9.
Yes, my bad there. I've corrected that.
  • [31]: No problems here.
  • [34]: I can neither confirm or deny the validity of this one because of the epub.
  • [42]: Matching our article to the source caused my head to spin a bit but I've determined that there's no issue here, either.
  • [57]: All good here.
  • [67]: Ditto.

This concludes my spot-check. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 00:28, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Supporting. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 01:09, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks. I think I've resolved the issues.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:36, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SC

edit

Putting down a marker - SchroCat (talk) 11:49, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Early life
  • J.P. Morgan -> J. P. Morgan
  • "joined for a ninety day term": ninety-day?
  • "When Judge Bulkeley died in 1872, his son Morgan": why not just "...in 1872, Morgan..."?
Baseball
  • "selected by lot,[17]": Full stop, rather than a comma, I think.
  • "the game.[25] and": Comma rather than a full top

Done to the start of Businessman and politician – more to come. - SchroCat (talk) 16:18, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Businessman and politician
  • "He worked to increase his popularity..." This is whopper of a sentence, weighing in at over 75 words. It also twists and turns in a couple of places and needs to be read more than once to get its full import. Any chance of splitting?
  • This now has "increase his popularity.supplying": I presume that's supposed to be a comma-space?
Fixed.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:40, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Senate seat
  • "Hawley attempted to deny Hawley renomination by the Republican legislative caucus and get the seat for himself, but both times threw his support to Hawley": Hawley did what to Hawley for Hawley?!
Fixed.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:40, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Senator
  • "Morgan Bulkeley was": is the first name needed?
Family, interests and sites
  • "in his honor in 1922 after his death.": the 'after his death' bit feels a bit clunky
I've added a comma. I'm trying to make it clear this happened in 1922, after his death that year, not simply after his death in 1922, if you see what I'm getting at. Both death and renaming occurred in 1922, in that order.
Supplied earlier in article.

That's my lot. Interesting individual. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 20:35, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I think I've gotten everything.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:59, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • The Governor section involves sandwiching
Death with.
  • File:Morgan_G_Bulkeley_(3x4a).jpg: when and where was this first published?
Replaced with image clearly in public domain as from 1906 book.
  • File:Seal_of_the_United_States_Senate.svg needs a tag for the original design.
I've redone the licensing on the commons page.

Nikkimaria (talk) 03:57, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest adding a more specific tag to File:Men_of_mark_in_Connecticut;_ideals_of_American_life_told_in_biographies_and_autobiographies_of_eminent_living_Americans_(1906)_(14774966724)_(3x4a).jpg. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:39, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's done now. Thanks.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:47, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dudley

edit
  • Putting baseball in the first and third paragraph of the lead and the long section are over the top in view of his limited involvement and interest. I would cut drastically.
I will address this below.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:41, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "His mother, born Lydia Smith Morgan, was distantly related to J. P. Morgan." How is this relevant.
That was the most notable thing written about her, regrettably, and I want to cover both parents.
De-linked.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:41, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in 1888, Bulkeley was selected by his party, with his Democratic opponent Luzon Morris" This sounds odd, as if the party selected both candidates.
OK
  • "and found time to benefit the corporation during his official duties". "He also found time for ceremonial duties outside the state". "found time" seems like sarcasm or just superfluous. I would delete.
OK
  • "the newly-Democratic state Senate held he and the other Democratic candidates for state office had gotten a majority" Maybe "held that he"
I've added that.
  • "The stalemate continued the Republican incumbents" This is ungrammatical.
I've rephrased.
  • "However, after the Supreme Court of Connecticut ruled Bulkeley was legally governor in January 1892". that missed out again. Is leaving it out AmerEng?
I'm not sure on the rules. It may be AmEng or possibly just legalese. In an excess of caution I've added it.
  • "successfully opposing the president's attempts to regulate the insurance industry at the federal level". This imples that he was personally responsible for the defeat. I think you need to give details if this is correct or clarify if it is not.
The source says " He was a vocal critic of President Theodore Roosevelt’s expansion of the central government’s powers, and he successfully opposed efforts in the Senate to institute federal regulation of the insurance industry." His major biography does not cover this. The ANB does say that Bulkeley felt that the big states such as New York, with its very large insurance industry, would dominate the federal regulatory apparatus, would that help?
I've done that. Wehwalt (talk) 00:45, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is a good article but it seems unbalanced to give so much space to his brief association with baseball and one sentence to his thirty year involvement in horse racing. This gives the impression of reflecting the editor's interests rather than Bulkeley's. Dudley Miles (talk) 20:16, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a couple of more sentences about the harness racing. However, Bulkeley is a member of the Baseball Hall of Fame, and his baseball involvement is probably what he is best known for, even though it occupied a relatively short period of his life. The coverage of that in this article is fair, it's mentioned in the first paragraph, which is the executive summary of the article, fleshed out more as we pass through that time in Bulkeley's life in the lead, and is covered in the body with a single section comparable to other sections that cover several years of Bulkeley's life. I think we're in compliance with MOS:LEAD, "The lead should stand on its own as a concise overview of the article's topic. It should identify the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies.[B] The notability of the article's subject is usually established in the first few sentences. As in the body of the article itself, the emphasis given to material in the lead should roughly reflect its importance to the topic, according to reliable, published sources." If there is any prominent controversy regarding Bulkeley, it's whether he should be in the Hall of Fame, so it's mentioned, the major point pro (first president of the National League) and con (brief tenure and something of a figurehead), all mentioned in the few paragraphs that the reader is most likely to read. Again from MOS:LEAD: "The average Wikipedia visit is a few minutes long.[1] The lead is the first thing most people will read upon arriving at an article, and may be the only portion of the article that they read.[A]" In my judgment, having read the recent sources on Bulkeley, the reader is very likely to be here because he is an obscure member of the Hall of Fame. The recent article in the Courant cited in the article gives much discussion to his baseball involvement and two or three sentences to his harness racing. Thank you for the review.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:41, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Almost all the sources for baseball are by people interested in baseball, not in Bulkeley. (The Courant article is by a journalist who was writing for people who are more interested in baseball than politics and is not a reliable source.) The only exception I can find in the citations is one page in the biography. It is significant in the history of baseball and 'Morgan Bulkeley and baseball' would be a valid article, but it was not a major interest of his (as you make clear) and it was not a significant part of his life, so it should not be in his biography. Dudley Miles (talk) 23:30, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Baseball is probably discussed for about six pages of his biography, and the entire book concludes with a discussion of his induction to the Hall of Fame. After his major biographer used baseball as the epilogue to the book, it is difficult to see how you exclude the subject from this article. I tended to use the baseball sources, which are quite valid reliable sources, in the discussion of baseball, because I deemed them stronger on the subject, specialized sources should be used more heavily in specialized discussions. As you feel the article too heavily weighted in the one section that deals with his baseball involvement, I've cut that section back a good deal, and also removed some matter from the lead. Wehwalt (talk) 00:38, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for that. If there was more written on his racing involvement, I would have included it, but it's a product of the sources.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:53, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from JennyOZ

edit

Placeholder, have started, should finish tomorrow. JennyOz (talk) 08:53, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Wehwalt, an interesting read thanks. I have a few questions and suggestions...

I noticed in this archive intro above that you mention him being of the Gilded Age but not in the article - intentional?

Yeah, he really bridges the Gilded and Progressive Eras, and given his stand over Brownsville (not as strong as Foraker's but still laudable) deserves to be seen as more than a senator beholden to corporations.

lede

  • first president of baseball's National League and because of that, was later National Baseball Hall of Fame in 1937 - missing 'inducted to the'?
Oops yes, thanks.

Early life and career

  • passengers of the Mayflower more - italics on ship
OK
  • founder both of the Aetna Life Insurance Company - if using caps, why not full name in link per lede?
OK
I looked at the list you cite. It could be, but the service doesn't match up and also that regiment enlisted for three years. The name of the commanding officer doesn't seem to match either. Both his bio and the ANB describe it as 13th New York Regiment.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:23, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • went on ninety day's active service - days'
OK.
  • "while Morgan Bulkeley joined" and "William Bulkeley saw no" and "1862, Morgan Bulkeley joined for" - I think the info would be just as understandable (and maybe flow better) without using the last names here ie just Morgan and William?
Then you're going to have confusion with "Henry Morgan" and the "Morgan store". I'll do if you really think it's worth it but ... I did remove one "Bulkeley" after William.
  • was sent to Suffolk, Virginia and saw - add geocomma
OK
  • Morgan Bulkeley joined for a - maybe add 'then' before "joined" just to emphasise the taking turns?
  • where he would remain another ten years - where he remained?
  • First Connecticut Heavy Artillery - link 1st Connecticut Heavy Artillery Regiment?

Baseball

  • Bulkeley refused to allow his team's scores to be reported where fans not attending the game gathered - a little explanation here? Was that to encourage attendance and therefore gatetakings/team morale? Any examples where they gathered, pubs, surely not in workplaces? It was live scores reporting while match in play? How were "scores to be reported " then, too early for radio reports?
At most ballparks, there was a telegraphist, who would transmit each play, generally to newspaper offices, who would post them outside, often on a mockup of a baseball field. Bulkeley saw this as hurting attendance, and would not sell a seat to a telegraphist and tried to have the police intercept messages dropped off the back of the bleachers to people waiting outside who would then see that it was transmitted. He didn't win this one.
  • The Hartford franchise played only two seasons in the National League - did they get relegated to some other league or fold?
Bulkeley sold them to the owner of the New York Mutuals, who merged them into his own team and they became known as the Hartfords of Brooklyn (where they played). They folded after the 1877 season. I'm trying to keep this focused on Bulkeley.
  • Bulkeley, unable to boost attendance, sold his interest in the team - add year
OK

Businessman and politician - Hartford municipal official

  • common council - not a term I was familiar with, pipe link Municipal council#Bicameralism. (That link would also explain the difference to the following "alderman".)
  • When he ran again in 1880, secured many votes ... Sorry, try as I might, but I can't parse that sentence
  • equal to several day's work - days'

Governor of Connecticut

  • candidate for comptroller, - pipe link Connecticut State Comptroller?
  • In November, Morris was elected - link 1892 Connecticut gubernatorial election?
  • In November, Morris was elected with a clear majority - link should be to 1892 not 1890 election?
  • and Bulkeley left office in January. - add 1893 here
  • However, after the Supreme Court of Connecticut ruled that Bulkeley was legally governor in January 1892 - ambiguous? Ie the court ruled in Jan 1892, or, "ruled that Bulkeley was legally" means 'ruled that Bulkeley had been legally governor in January 1892'?
  • I tried to check current ref 42 ""The Year Connecticut Elected Nobody Governor". tribunedigital-thecourant." but it's an "Oops" error - I think URL should be this but it won't let me read, only available to subscribers.

Senator (1905–1911)

  • and the father in law of - should be hyphenated father-in-law?
  • H. Roger Grant - link and authorlink?
  • insulting Idaho's Weldon Heyburn on the floor - swap/pipe link to Weldon B. Heyburn

Later years, death and funeral

  • In September, 1911, he was among - comma after September not needed if no day?
  • He died in the evening of November 6, 1922. - add age?

Family, interests and sites

  • wed Fannie Briggs Haughton - ibox, and son just below, have Houghton
  • Although he never owned horses which were raced - I presume that means he did own some horses? Might be better 'Although he never owned racing horses'? (Unless that's an Engvar thing of course)
I'm not sure that horses used in harness racing are referred to as racing horses. I've always heard trotters. He did own horses that were used for transport, either riding or carriage horses.

That's all I could find to ask for clarifications about, and a couple of MOS bits. Thanks, JennyOz (talk) 13:59, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I think I've gotten to everything. If I left no response, I just went ahead and did it.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:00, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you - glad you understood my comments! I just have four last questions, all pertaining to the one paragraph, that I have added above at my "Governor of Connecticut" heading. JennyOz (talk) 08:14, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've cleaned up those things. Thanks for the review.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:29, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for those extra tweaks. Very happy to add my s'port (and to now know more about baseball and US politics). JennyOz (talk) 03:49, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Morgan_Bulkeley/archive1&oldid=1204605813"