Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mother's Day (Rugrats)/archive1

< Wikipedia:Featured article candidates
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 07:58, 19 June 2017 [1].

Mother's Day (Rugrats)

edit
Nominator(s): Aoba47 (talk) 02:04, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again. This article is on the Mother’s Day special from the animated television series Rugrats, which aired on May 6, 1997. In the episode, it revolves around the holiday from the Rugrats' perspective. It is revealed that Chuckie Finster’s mother had died of a terminal illness shortly after his birth.

The production history was relatively recently brought up through a 2016 interview with the series co-creator Paul Germain. According to Germain, Chuckie’s mother was originally absent from the first season to avoid the work required to animate a new character. When the character’s absence became more noticeable as the series progressed, Germain and fellow co-creator Arlene Klasky developed pitches for storylines on the mother’s death or her divorce from Chuckie’s father Chaz. While Nickelodeon executives rejected their idea as too dark and mature for the audience, the idea was eventually developed into an episode. “Mother’s Day” received a positive reception for the treatment of the subject matter, especially from retrospective reviews. Media commentators also highlighted the positive representation of breastfeeding in the episode and Chuckie’s perception of his father as the perfect mother.

I recently created this article and had it promoted following a very helpful review. I greatly enjoyed this episode when I first watched it as a child, and I still greatly enjoy it now. I had a lot of fun creating this article, and I was inspired by "A Rugrats Passover" and "A Rugrats Chanukah" to create and work on this. This is my third FAC for an article on a television episode, with my other two being successful FACs for "Did You Hear What Happened to Charlotte King?" and "Faces" (Star Trek: Voyager). I believe that it satisifies all of the parts of the FAC criterea. I would greatly appreciate any feedback on this nomination. Thank you in advance. Aoba47 (talk) 02:04, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from fourthords

edit
Resolved comments from fourthords | =Λ= |

I figure the third time's the charm. In August, Aoba47 asked me to provide input on their FAC for "Did You Hear What Happened to Charlotte King?". I said I would, and I did not. Then, despite being a fanatical Trekkie, when Aoba47 asked WT:TREK to provide input on "Faces" in April, I failed then too. So here I am! I've never commented on an FAC before, and don't really know what I'm doing, but here it goes!

  • "telling the Rugrats that the meaning of the holiday."

    I'm assuming this is supposed to be either "telling the Rugrats the meaning of the holiday." (though "explaining to the Rugrats…" would be better, I think) or "telling the Rugrats that the meaning of the holiday is SOMETHING PERTINENT."

    I can't believe I read over that one lol. I have changed it according to your suggestion. Aoba47 (talk) 18:27, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The 23-minute, 46-second episode[4] was written by: Jon Cooksey, Ali Marie Matheson, J. David Stem, David N. Weiss, Susan Hood, and Ed Resto."

    This is a perfectly cromulent sentence without the colon; is it performing a function I don't otherwise understand?

    I think that the colon was put in to introduce the list of the writers, but I agree that it is not necessary and I have removed it. Aoba47 (talk) 18:27, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, actually that's all I have. Reads as a great article! I'll keep an eye out here and there to see what Aoba47 says about my questions, but based on my observations of this contributor, I don't foresee any reasons not to support its promotion. — fourthords | =Λ= | 17:59, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Fourthords: Thank you for your comments! It is always cool to meet another Trekkie. One of these days, we will have to a Trek discussion lol. I believe that I have addressed all of your comments. Let me know if there is anything else that I can do. I look forward to working with you further in the future. Aoba47 (talk) 18:27, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Everything else looks great to me! I heartily endorse promotion of this article as featured. — fourthords | =Λ= | 17:36, 3 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from TheJoebro64

edit

This was a very interesting read, and is incredibly well written. I believe this is among the best articles on a television episode on Wikipedia I've ever read, so I'm going to say that I support this article's promotion. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 19:20, 7 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from SNUGGUMS

edit
Resolved comments from SNUGGUMS

This only seems to have gotten better since passing for GA. Just two things:

  • With regards to prior mentions of Chuckie's mother, there's also the episode "My Friend Barney", where Chaz states "You know Chuckie, your mother never liked this fish much, but hey, I guess now we can put it back up in the dining room" after the Rugrats find his fish on a board, clearly indicating she's no longer in the house at that point (but of course doesn't state or even suggest anything about death). Given the other episodes listed that include minor mentions of her, I'd say this is also worth including.
  • Thank you for pointing this out! I added into the article (I made a redirect for the episode "My Friend Barney" so I could link it to keep it consistent with the other two episodes in the sentence). Aoba47 (talk) 14:26, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • If at all possible, I'd see what offline magazines/newspapers discuss the episode (even if just briefly) in a similar vein to what the Chanukah and Passover episodes include.
  • I have tried again to look for offline magazines/newspapers/other resources, and I unfortunately could not find anything new. I am assuming that the Chanukah and Passover episodes given the content as I do not believe many children shows as this time were discussing Jewish themes, especially that overtly. I am pretty sure that I have a majority if not all of the usable sources that discuss this particular episode. Aoba47 (talk) 14:26, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's overall a splendid article. You definitely have my applause. Snuggums (talk / edits) 05:22, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • @SNUGGUMS: Thank you for your comments and for your kind words. Please let me know if there is anything else that can be improved with the article. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. Aoba47 (talk) 14:26, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You now have my support. As for images, File:Kim Catrall Meet Monica Velour 1.jpg is also appropriately licensed. Snuggums (talk / edits) 14:48, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Midnightblueowl

edit
Resolved comments from Midnightblueowl
  • "with her mom Minka and Stu Pickles and Betty DeVille" - it reads a little like Stu Pickles and Betty are planning the event with the mom. Maybe a comma could make clear that we are dealing with two separate plotlines here? Or the "and" could become a "while". Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:22, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Writing A Children's Special or Series" - given that the "or" is not capitalised, I would expect the "A" to be lower case too. This issue appears in both the lede and the "Critical response" section. Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:22, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Good work Aoba47. I now feel confident that I can support this article as an FA. Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:47, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

edit

Every source appears to be reliable and all are reliable. I think the article passes. Still, the last reference lacks the page number. Good work.Tintor2 (talk) 17:19, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Gen. Quon

edit
Resolved comments from Gen. Quon (Talk)
  • Quotation marks within quotation marks should be single instead of double (e.g. reference 2).
  • Thank you for the note. I have fixed reference 2. I did not see any other cases of this in the article, but please direct my knowledge to anything that I overlooked. Aoba47 (talk) 19:42, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Germain said that he was disappointed about being unable to cover the topic during his time on the series." Perhaps mention that he had left prior to this sentence?
  • Perhaps include voice actor info? Who voices whom?
  • That is a really good question. I primarily used "A Rugrats Chanukah" as a template (and it was actually my main inspiration for creating this article in the first place). That particular article did not include the voice actor info (either in the Plot section or as a separate section). I would imagine that the information on voice actors would only brought up if something about them was particularly notable in the episode itself (such as Cattrall's appearance in this episode). Let me know if that makes any sense as I am more than open to hear suggestions about this, as it is something that I completely overlooked/didn't think about when making and expanding this article. Aoba47 (talk) 19:42, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I feel like the sentence "Kim Cattrall provided the voice for Chuckie's mother, Melinda Finster" fits better as the a capper to the first paragraph in "Production". Also, is there any more about her role?
  • Moved the sentence down. Unfortunately, I cannot find much more information on her role in the series, other than media outlets being surprised that an actor who really became famous in Sex and the City was in an episode of Rugrats. It would be really cool if someone interviewed her about this role one day to get her side of things (I doubt it though). Aoba47 (talk) 19:42, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Personally, I think the second sentence of the second paragraph in "Production" should read: "The studio also vetoed a reveal that the mother was dead, contending that such an idea would be "scary" and that "children [would not] want to see that." Also, I've always been taught that direct quotes require immediate citation, even if it's the following source.
  • "...in the episodes 'Real or Robots?', 'Chuckie vs. the Potty', and 'My Friend Barney'" Perhaps add the years that these aired in parentheses after each (like you did in "Broadcast history and release")?
  • I feel like the sentence "Even though the episode portrays Chuckie's mother as having died from a terminal illness, the word "dead" was never used by any of the characters" is sort of oddly stuck into that last paragraph in "Production"
  • Good point. I moved it up to the part with the network executives' concerns as they somewhat deal with the same topic. Let me know if this requires further revisions. Aoba47 (talk) 19:42, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think that Ref 32 should be formatted "Drescher, Glazer, Crespi & Schwartz (2013)", as I believe the excess ampersands are unnecessary.
As you can perhaps tell, most of my comments are suggests and things that I think might need changing, but aren't killers. This is a pretty solid article, and I hadn't thought about this episode in a long time (I remember watching it on TV many years ago).--Gen. Quon (Talk) 19:11, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Cartoon network freak

edit
Resolved comments from Cartoon network freak
  • fourth season of the American animated → "the" can be removed here
  • the show's sixty-seventh overall → numbers above 10 should not be spelled out (67th)
  • revolves around the holiday from the Rugrats' perspective. The Rugrats attempt to → you can link these two sentences (perspective, attempting to... for example)
  • Chuckie Finster the perfect mother → what do you mean here?
  • The episode focuses on the characters' attempts to find Chuckie a mother figure as he does not have one (i.e. his mother died prior to the events in this episode). Hope that clears it up. Aoba47 (talk) 22:50, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Susan Hood, and Ed Resto → no comma here
  • release Rugrats: Mommy Mania, and was later → no comma
  • Amazon Video, and Hulu → no comma
  • Writing a Children's Special or Series, and was also → no comma here
  • box of his wife's belongings because he fears → replace "because" with "as", as it's more of a FA level
  • Chuckie will find it → Chuckie would find it
  • Chuckie will find it. Chaz does not feel he is ready to talk to Chuckie about his mother. While helping the other babies look for the perfect gifts for their mothers, Chuckie feels uncertain about how he should celebrate Mother's Day. Tommy Pickles and twins Phil and Lil share their favorite memories of their mothers with Chuckie. → 4 times "Chuckie" in these 4 sentences, please alternate
  • The babies hatch a plan to find Chuckie a new mother → this sentence is very short; can you link it with the next one?
  • to decorate her sculpture. He is unable to collect it → to decorate her sculpture, with him unable to collect it
  • a journal of pressed flowers, and a photograph → no comma
  • Chuckie gives Chaz the picture of his mother as a Mother's Day present. Chaz decides to talk to Chuckie → the word repetition here does not read well
  • to talk to Chuckie about his mother. He tells Chuckie that his mother died → to talk to Chuckie about his mother, telling him that she had died
  • 23-minute, 46-second → 23-minute and 46-second
  • J. David Stem, and David N. Weiss → no comma
  • "Chuckie vs. the Potty" (1992), and "My Friend Barney" (1993) → no comma
  • At this time, Nickelodeon → At that time, Nickelodeon
  • on May 6, 1997, on Nickelodeon → no comma
  • The Los Angeles Times' → Remove "The"
  • "A Rugrats Passover" (1993), and "Rugrats: The Santa Experience" (1996). → no coma
  • like "Mother's Day," → including "Mother's Day,"
  • The releases were distributed by Viacom.[5] → The sentence is kind of short; can you link it with another one?
  • It is also available on streaming video on demand services → use "released" here to avoid word repetition
  • nominated for Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Animated Program → add "the" before "Primetime..."
  • Jon Cooksey, Ali Marie Matheson, J. David Stem, and David N. Weiss → remove last comma + haven't you mentioned all these people before with full names?
  • Nickelodeon's potential to a cover serious subject → Nickelodeon's potential to cover a serious subject
  • agreed with Anderson's sentiment → "agreed" is wrong here because it implies they met each other and discussed together on that matter; try somehing like "echoed Anderson's sentiment"
  • the show's third, fourth, and fifth seasons → no comma
  • and included in a list → with him including it in a list (word repetition)
  • Lee Crespi, and David Schwartz → no comma
  • that his father is his mother → that his father was his mother
  • Maybe you should add a image of that breastfeeding scene as it was so critically commended
  • I do not particularly think that this would be helpful, especially since the scene was discussed by only two critics so I do not want to give it undue weight. Aoba47 (talk) 22:50, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: These are my comments! Excellent job with the article; Cartoon network freak (talk) 22:17, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Cartoon network freak: Thank you for your comments. I believe that I have either addressed them in the article or provided my reasoning for disagreeing with a few. Just for clarity, I use the Oxford comma throughout my writing so I prefer to keep the comma in the list of three or more items. Please let me know if there is any thing else I can do to improve the article. Hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. Aoba47 (talk) 22:50, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support from me as well. Great job with the article; Cartoon network freak (talk) 06:23, 10 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Moise

edit

Plot:

  • I got lost here, and a little bit in the lead, because it wasn't clear to me what everyone's relationships are, and which characters are kids or adults. I also didn't realize until "The babies hatch a plan to find Chuckie a new mother" that some of the characters were babies. Would it be possible to clarify these things more?
  • "Angelica tasks Chuckie to pick a dandelion to decorate her sculpture. He is unable to collect it after being chased by a bee and Stu's malfunctioning Mother's Day invention." Is it a specific dandelion, or any dandelion? I also wasn't sure whether "collect" is the most appropriate word. Moisejp (talk) 04:06, 10 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Minor comment) "Betty DeVille and Stu Pickles work on an invention to help mothers" / "He is unable to collect it after being chased by a bee and Stu's malfunctioning Mother's Day invention" / "Meanwhile, Stu's invention vacuums up mud and explodes inside the house." The text kind of skirts around what type of invention it is a couple of times before finally revealing that it is a vacuum-like machine. Moisejp (talk) 04:10, 10 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see your point, and thank you for bringing it up as I kept reading over that part. I have tried to work it out, but let me know there needs to be more clarification. Aoba47 (talk) 16:05, 12 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Production:

  • "Kim Cattrall has a guest role as Chuckie Finster's mother Melinda in the episode." Is there a flashback or something with her during the episode? There's no mention of it in the Plot section. Also, it's only an idea, but would just after "The development of the Rugrats Mother's Day television special was announced on December 7, 1996" be a better place for the sentence? See what you think. It feels a little out of place to me in its current position. Moisejp (talk) 04:18, 10 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have added a bit to the Plot section about this.

Broadcast history and release:

  • @Moisejp: Thank you for your review. I greatly appreciate your feedback as it helped to improve the article a great deal. If there is anything else that needs improvement, please let me know. I hope you have a wonderful day, and I look forward to working with you more in the future. Aoba47 (talk) 16:07, 12 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Plot (pt. 2):

  • "Angelica orders the babies to stay in the closet after Chuckie breaks her macaroni head. While the babies console Chuckie, he realizes that his dad meets all the requirements of a good mother. The babies open Chaz's box, finding a spade, a journal of pressed flowers, and a photograph of Chuckie's mother." Who specifically are the babies here? (Chuckie, Tommy, Phil, and Lil?) From her wikipedia page, I thought Angelica was also a toddler/baby. Moisejp (talk) 05:20, 13 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for bringing this point up. I would actually not put Chuckie, Tommy, Phil, and Lil and Angelica in the same category. Angelica is shown as a year old. She is characterized as knowledgeable about more things (she already knows about Mother's Day from the start of the episode) and she can communicate with both the babies and adults. I would actually call Chuckie, Tommy, Phil, and Lil babies rather than toddlers, as I feel that is a better descriptor for them as they are directly referenced as babies on the show. Hopefully that makes so sense. Aoba47 (talk) 14:00, 13 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Lead and Plot): "Released as a Mother's Day special, it revolves around the holiday from the perspective of a group of toddlers—Tommy Pickles, Chuckie Finster, Phil and Lil Deville, and Angelica Pickles. They attempt to find Chuckie the perfect mother..." / "Angelica orders the babies to stay in the closet after Chuckie breaks her macaroni head. While the babies console Chuckie, he realizes that his dad meets all the requirements of a good mother." In both these instances Chuckie first seems to be included in the group of toddlers/babies, and then not included ("They attempt to find Chuckie the perfect mother "—or is he also involved in the searching?—and "the babies console Chuckie").
  • Throughout the article, it might be good to mix up the use of "toddlers" and "babies" more to show clearly they're being used as synonyms (I know, I also added a couple of instances of "toddler", before I noticed there were three instances of "babies" in a row in the Plot section). Moisejp (talk) 05:50, 13 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Moisejp: Thank you for your comments. I believe that I have addressed everything. I referenced Tommy, Chuckie, Phil, and Lil as babies and Angelica as a toddler as they are characterized differently from one another on the show, but I would be more than happy to look at it again. I think it might actually be more beneficial to separate them out like this to clarify things in the plot, such as why Angelica is shown as being in opposition or separate from the rest of the characters for instance as she is older. Thank you again, and I look forward to your comments. Aoba47 (talk) 14:00, 13 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The lead and Plot sections mostly look good now. The only thing I noticed was that sometimes the invention is referred to as Stu's and sometimes Betty and Stu's. In the Production section I still medium-strongly feel the sentence "Kim Cattrall provided the voice for Chuckie's mother, Melinda Finster" would be better if moved; you didn't comment on that and I wasn't sure if you saw that suggestion. I will continue my review ASAP. Moisejp (talk) 14:24, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Moisejp: Thank you for reminding me to move the sentence about Kim Cattrall. For some reason, I completely read over that part. I have moved the sentence, and I agree that it works better this way. I have also attempted to fix everything so the invention is better described as being Stu's with Betty as more of a helper (as she is only shown to be helping Stu in one particular scene). Hope this helps. I look forward to the rest of your comments. Aoba47 (talk) 14:38, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Critical response:

  • "Rugrats was nominated for the Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Animated Program for the 49th Primetime Emmy Awards, after submitting the special for consideration,[5] but lost to The Simpsons." Here "after submitting the special for consideration" needs a subject. Was it the network that submitted it?

I'm almost done my review. I'd just like to do one more read-through of the article to see whether anything else jumps out at me. Cheers, Moisejp (talk) 14:07, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Moisejp: Thank you for your patience and your time during this review. I greatly appreciate all of your comments. I believe that it was the network that choose and submitted the episode so I made the adjustments in the lead and "Critical response" subsection. I hope you are having a wonderful day so far. Aoba47 (talk) 14:48, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In an earlier version in the Plot section you had the line "While the babies console Chuckie, he realizes that his dad meets all the requirements of a good mother." Without this line, the bit at the end about "In their essay "What Is a Mother? Gay and Lesbian Perspectives on Parenting", scholars Jack Drescher, Deborah F. Glazer, Lee Crespi, and David Schwartz analyzed "Mother's Day" as an extension of psychoanalyst Donald Winnicott's theories on early childhood. They highlighted Chuckie's realization that his father is his mother as "a moment of postmodern insight" that expands the definition of motherhood" is less clear. Moisejp (talk) 05:28, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for your comments. I greatly appreciate that you took the time to review this. I have added in the sentence that you mentioned above. I am not sure how it got lost in the shuffle. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. Aoba47 (talk) 13:56, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Mymis

edit
  • ""Mother's Day" was nominated for the Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Animated Program for the 49th Primetime Emmy Awards" -> The episode itself was not nominated, the show was, wasn't it? Emmy article says: "Each series is allowed to submit one episode and a special". Maybe the sentence could be slightly paraphrased?
  • Thank you for pointing this out. This is something that I actually just noticed when looking through the article today. I have revised, but let me know if further work is needed here. Aoba47 (talk) 16:16, 12 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Kristy Anderson placed it... -> just Anderson because you mentioned the person already.
  • "Chuckie's mother" is mentioned seven times in "Production" section. Some may be changed? With "the character" or something like that.
  • "on the iTunes Store, Amazon Video, and Hulu" in intro -> is it necessary to mention these specific websites in the introduction?
  • "Primetime Emmy Award" is repeated twice in one sentence in the introduction.
  • genre is usually linked "Animated series" in this case.

Mymis (talk) 23:34, 10 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Carbrera

edit
  • "Kim Cattrall has a guest role as Chuckie Finster's mother Melinda in the episode." --> This is the photo caption for Ms. Cattrall; 'Melinda' should be surrounded by commas because there is no need for additional distinction – he has only had one mom so there is no other one to be confused over
  • In Reference #4, I think you should clarify that is the US iTunes Store, so perhaps "iTunes Store (US)" in the publisher field would suffice
  • I'm not sure how reliable Reference #31 is, but perhaps it is – IDK?
  • That is a good point, and I would be more than happy to hear others' opinions on its acceptability. I included it as the articles appear to go through a team of editors as shown in this page here, but let me know what you think about this. Aoba47 (talk) 16:21, 12 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe I'm just late to the party, but why are there not any access dates for the sources?
  • I was advised that when references are archived that the archive dates replace access dates to avoid making the reference section too long with three separate dates. The access dates are only really there in case a link goes dead, then it gives a reference point to when you could possibly find it through a website archive. Aoba47 (talk) 16:21, 12 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Carbrera (talk) 00:34, 12 June 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Support from IndianBio

edit

I did some minor MOS related changes here, but I don't see any outstanding issues here and it was a very good read, thorough research. I can gladly support this article for a featured promotion. —IB [ Poke ] 07:53, 13 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Mother%27s_Day_(Rugrats)/archive1&oldid=1142602692"