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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Nier: Automata/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Hog Farm via FACBot (talk) 14 March 2023 [1].

Nier: Automata

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Nominator(s): ProtoDrake (talk) 12:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about...the 2017 action role-playing game Nier Automata, developed by PlatinumGames and published by Square Enix. Developed by many of the same staff members behind the original Nier, it was a commercial and critical success, and has gone on to see media expansions and crossovers with other series. The article became a GA in November 2020, and has gone through a copyedit by the Guild of Copy Editors. ProtoDrake (talk) 12:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Support for prose by Shooterwalker

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This is a long one so it will take a while to work through it. I feel confident it is within reach of FA, with some work.

  • Gameplay
  • "Nier: Automata is an action role-playing game (ARPG) in which players take the role of combat androids from the YoRHa units across an open world." -> I might focus more on the gameplay and less on the plot (YoRHa units) just to make the opening sentence clearer.
  • Reworked.
  • The organization of this section is important and could be better. The later paragraphs seem focused (combat, more combat, character progression, character death). But the first paragraph is all over the place: genre, plot, navigation, camera perspective, quests, shops, multiple endings.
  • I'm not sure the best way to improve it, but worst case, the WP:PYRAMID rule is good guidance. The first sentence covers the genre and essential gameplay (and sometimes theme). The second sentence should try to cover the three-ish main actions in the game (e.g.: third-person action, dialog, character levelling). You can take a elaborate on those (e.g.: third-person action includes combat and platforming), but ultimately save the most detail for the later paragraphs. The first paragraph should be broad, and very readable.
  • I decided to arrange it by Standard premise and structure - Combat - Progression and death mechanics - Genre shifting and the ending system.
  • "In addition to standard navigation on foot, use of a special item allows the player to summon a wild animal to ride and in some scenarios to pilot a flying mech to fight enemies." -> "In addition to standard navigation on foot, the game features scenarios with flying mech battles, as well as a special item that can summon wild animals to ride."
  • Sorted, hopefully.
  • "the camera shifts from its standard third-person perspective to an overhead or side-scrolling view while navigating in some environments." -> "the game is mostly played in a third-person perspective, with a few side-scrolling sequences."
  • Hopefully sorted above.
  • "navigate by jumping between platforms or over obstacles." -> "jump over obstacles."
  • Sorted.
  • "Combat is action-based hack and slash; the player fights enemies in real-time in a variety of in-game environments" -> "The player will fight enemies in real-time close combat." (variety of environments is implied)
  • Sorted, hopefully.
  • "During battle, the player can use light attacks—which are fast but weak—and heavy attacks, which are slower but more powerful." -> The player will use light or heavy attacks, preferring speed or damage, respectively."
  • Didn't use this specifically, but rewritten.
  • "The player can evade enemy attacks and, with successfully timed button presses, can gain temporary invulnerability and launch a counterattack that deals heavy damage." -> "The player can also evade incoming attacks, gaining invulnerability or counterattack bonuses based on timing."
  • Done.
  • "The player is assisted by a Pod, a flying robotic assistant that can launch customizable ranged attacks varying from simple gunfire to heavy-hitting hammer attacks." -> "The player has a flying robotic assistant called a Pod, which can launch customizable ranged attacks such as lasers, bombs, or missiles."
  • I had to rewrite this bit, but hopefully it's sorted.
  • The mix of alternate genres feels like it would go better in a different paragraph, and might even be a good way to organize the miscellanea that don't really fit in the first paragraph.
  • Hopefully sorted above.
  • "While attacking, the player can alternate between both weapons and attacks to create combination attacks." -> this sentence breaks up the connection between the other two sentences, and might fit better later in the paragraph. Or maybe even the previous paragraph about attack types.
  • Dropped.
  • "Weapon Stories—a recurring element in both Nier and the Drakengard series—in which weapons are found throughout the world and have unique stories attached to them, are also featured." -> This is a little unclear -- how are the stories attached?
  • Dropped.
  • "initial lead 2B is an attacker with two weapons available, second protagonist 9S has one weapon and specializes in hacking into enemies to deal high damage, and later-character A2 plays similarly to 2B with the extra ability to briefly boost attack-power by sacrificing health." -> "the first protagonist 2B alternates between two weapons, the second protagonist 9S combines weapon attacks with hacking into enemy robots, and the final character A2 can sacrifice health to briefly boost their attack power."
  • Done.
  • What are the bonuses mentioned in the last paragraph? I'm guessing experience?
  • Dropped.

We can start there, and keep working through the article in time. Shooterwalker (talk) 13:46, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Shooterwalker: I can tell this is going to be a lot, but don't hold back. I also did some condensing/trimming on the upgrades/chips/death bit. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:42, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for taking that on, and it already has made a substantial improvement. Let's keep going with the other sections. We can come back with one more pass at the end.
  • Settings and characters
  • "androids have attitudes that distinguish them from their fellows" -> "each android has a distinct personality"
  • Done.
  • Does YoRHa have an etymology or meaning?
  • Nope, it's meaningless.
  • "The YoRHA forces fight alongside pre-YoRHa Earth androids known as the Resistance to drive back the Machines." -> "Fending off the Machines, the YoRHA forces fight alongside pre-YoRHa Earth androids known as the Resistance."
  • Done.
  • "and are of the same model as two characters in Nier;" -> how important is this? It would flow better if this were removed, or even shorter.
  • I cut that bit.
  • Plot
  • "views" -> "viewpoints"
  • Done.
  • "initial invasion" -> "initial Machine invasion"
  • I've rewritten this.
  • "After opening a route for future missions" -> this is a little unclear. Is that actually how the early game is framed?
  • Yep.
  • "by Anemone" -> "by resistance leader Anemone" (I know this is already stated, but reinforcing it can help for outside readers.)
  • Clarified.
  • Is machines capitalized? Either will do, but be consistent.
  • Yes.
  • "she witnesses the destruction of Pascal's village, then its children committing suicide out of fear when attacked." -> "she witnesses the destruction of Pascal's village, then its children committing suicide out of fear when attacked." -> she witnesses the destruction of Pascal's village, including its children committing suicide pre-emptively."
  • Did my best, but the children deaths happen after the village is destroyed.
  • The separate arcs seem out of place. At the minimum, it should be in its own paragraph. It might even need another sentence, just to explain where the arcs fit into the whole story. (Literally, beginning, middle, or end.)
  • I've split them into a paragraph at the end. And they're optional.
  • "fire an ark" -> "launch an ark"
  • Done.
  • "the possibility the restored" -> "the possibility that the restored" or even "the expectation" or "the conspiracy". Something like that.
  • I rewrote this a little.
This section is pretty well written. See what you can do here and we'll move onto the development. Shooterwalker (talk) 20:14, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Shooterwalker: I think I've sorted out everything above. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:00, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Moving onto the next section...
  • Development
  • "sequel provided" -> "sequel, provided that"
  • " Development, which began in 2014, included six months of pre-production" -> " Development began in 2014, and included six months of pre-production"
  • "A system of "free time" in which Yoko could work when possible without clashes was developed, reducing the difficulties." -> "To reduce the scheduling conflicts, the team organized a system of "free time" where Yoko would be available to work."
  • Scenario and themes
  • "he working much more on the script than on those of his previous games. He delivered the script nearly five months late; aside from minor changes, the narrative remained the same throughout development" -> "This script took the most work of all his games to date, and while the story only experienced minor changes through development, it was delivered nearly five months late."
  • "when reviewing his story" -> can drop this / it's implied
  • "Saito also said the story is about love, which he stated is unusual because the central cast are robots, which are not normally associated with emotions" -> "Saito also said the story is about love, which he felt was unusual for a story about robots, which are typically written as non-emotional."
  • Art and game design
  • "although he had prior experience developing action games" -> "with his prior experience focused on action game development".
  • "Taura's main concept" -> " Taura's main design goal"
  • "development ," -> minor typo here
  • "the camera" -> "the perspective" (for people who might not understand the meaning of camera in a game design context)
  • "The developers thought Yoshida would decline the offer due to his busy schedule but Yoshida was willing to join the project because some staff members at his company CyDesignation were fans of Nier." -> "The developers thought Yoshida would be too busy to contribute, but he was willing to join the project due to fans of Nier working at his company, CyDesignation."
  • "Yoshida joined the company a little later in the process than usual so Taro gave him a general guideline of sleek designs with black as the dominant color" -> "Yoshida joined the company later in the character design process, so Taro gave him a general guideline of sleek designs with black as the dominant color"
  • "When creating the character models, the developer had difficulty making them seem alive despite their mechanical nature" -> "He/they also had difficulty making the character models seem alive due to their mechanical nature."
  • Music
  • "A theme song for the game was created; versions were sung by both Evans and new singer J'Nique Nicole." -> "Monaca created a theme song, which was sung by both Evans and new singer J'Nique Nicole."
  • Localization
  • "8-4's biggest difficulty was writing the android characters; while these are ostensibly emotionless, they have distinctive personalities, and much of the relationship between 2B and 9S revolves around emotion." -> "8-4's biggest challenge was translating the android dialog, as it was difficult to balance their purported emotionlessness with their highly emotional relationships and distinct personalities."
  • "When the estate of philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre objected to the use of his name in the game, the character Sartre was renamed Jean-Paul in releases outside Japan."
It's a long section, but it does cover a lot of ground and reads very well. Take a look at those suggestions and we can keep going. Shooterwalker (talk) 14:43, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Shooterwalker: Did my best with all above. Also added some info about the theme song. That section hadn't been properly updated since prior to the game's release. --ProtoDrake (talk) 10:49, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all your improvements. Let's focus on the next section.
  • Release
  • "At the time it was announced, the game was 10% complete." -> When was it announced? It's easy to lose track. This might fit better in the previous paragraph.
  • In fact, the conversation about the title might be an appropriate place for a paragraph break, since those thoughts are related.
  • "A2's playable role was not intended as a surprise revelation; the development team used the character's long-haired design for footage of a late-game boss fight in which she had short hair, making her change of appearance less obvious" -> This sentence is unclear, and there's probably a simpler way to explain what's happening here.
  • "it was decided a late-2016 or early 2017 release would give Nier: Automata more of a chance of commercial success. The delay gave the developers more time to improve the quality and gameplay balance." -> "To mitigate competition, the team decided to release the game for late-2016 or early 2017, which also allowed the team more time to refine the game."
  • Versions
  • Mixing verb tense can be confusing. Try to stick with past tense.
  • "Square Enix worked with Japanese rock band Amazarashi, lead singer Hiromu Akita was a fan of Nier, to produce a song called "Inochi ni Fusawashii", which was inspired by the game's world." -> There's a lot going on in this sentence. See if you can simplify it, but I can always try my best to help.
  • The DRM statement seems unresolved. If it never turned into anything it might be worth removing.
  • "Saito stated the release of a version for Xbox One was being considered" -> "Saito stated that the release of a version for Xbox One was being considered"
  • " Yoko wanted more character outfits and accessories; following the mobile game Nier Reincarnation, he chose a kimono and accessories theme." -> There's nothing grammatically wrong here, but it reads as three unconnected thoughts.
  • "The port's subtitle" -> I've skimmed a few times and I'm not sure what this is.
  • A lot of this section feels too detailed, particularly the details about what was in each game package. A lot of it feels like pedantic discussions about what should be in the game and when it should be released, after a development section that focused on more important and interesting decisions. I defer to you on what you think the average reader needs to know, but consider trimming some of the details that clutter the main point.
I know that advice might not be the most clear. So just use your judgment and we can keep going when you're ready. Shooterwalker (talk) 01:19, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Shooterwalker: Did my best with the comments above, did a lot of trimming and some rewriting. Hopefully it's more focused and readable now. --ProtoDrake (talk) 11:07, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That helped a lot. Let's keep going.
  • Reception
  • "lauding most aspects of it despite one reviewer finding customization cumbersome." -> I can see how talking about the one thing they didn't like adds a sort of "balance", but I think it ends up just leaving out the main point. I might rewrite this statement to focus more on what they did like, if you even need to mention minor criticisms at all.
  • "apart from its side quests" -> same thing here. For the left-field comparison to Metal Gear, what was it about those games that they compared?
  • "Game Informer reviewer Joe Juba wrote a lot of enjoyable elements in the game's narrative and gameplay are obscured by confusing or obtuse mechanics." -> The sudden negative sentence feels a little out of place. This might still be the right paragraph to mention it, but it could use a better transition.
  • "but said the PC port is lacking" -> "but criticized the PC port"
  • "in spite of its content" -> you can probably drop this. Sentence is clear without it.
  • " was positive about its presentation and design but noted some gameplay elements did not work as expected and lack depth" -> "was positive about its presentation, but criticized some gameplay elements as awkward or lacking in depth."
  • "difficulty identifying with" -> "found it difficult to relate to"
  • "The gameplay was generally enjoyed but several reviewers found a lack of depth in combat compared to previous PlatinumGames titles" -> "Reviewers generally enjoyed the gameplay, but several critics felt that the combat lacked depth compared to previous PlatinumGames titles."
  • The paragraphs in this section seem to jump between a lot of different thoughts, especially the last one (before sales). It's not bad, but consider whether you can try to organize different types of commentary into different paragraphs. (e.g.: "good / mixed / bad, or overall / gameplay / story / graphics and sound, or some hybrid of the two.)
  • Sales
  • "and it success was seen as surprising compared to the low sales of Nier" -> "and its success came as a surprise compared to the low sales of Nier."
  • Additional media
  • "new revisions to the original stage play, a spin-off, a musical version, and an all-male spin-off play were produced" -> "the team worked on additional stage productions including an all-male spin-off, a musical version, and a revised version of the original."
  • "features a scenario around the character, themed moves, and weapons; and an alternative white variation dubbed "2P"" -> "includes unique weapons and abilities, a full scenario about the character, and an alternative white variation called "2P"."
  • The collaborations sound more like crossovers. Would this be a more suitable title? I leave it up to you.
That covers everything. I know it's been a lot, so thanks again for all your work. We'll probably still need to go over it one more time for any lingering issues, but I feel confident this will set it up for FA, and make it easy for future reviewers. Shooterwalker (talk) 12:30, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Shooterwalker: Did my best to address the above, including rearranging the reception to be more of a flow (Going through the reviews, I arranged it like that becaus the way things are phrased would've led to a ton or repetition or redundant information). --ProtoDrake (talk) 13:38, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Coming back to this with some fresh eyes. Hoping that we can nail this with one last round of revisions.
  • Lead
  • "Nier: Automata was originally released for the PlayStation 4 and Windows via Steam, and an Xbox One port with the subtitle Become as Gods Edition was published the following year." -> "Nier: Automata was originally released for the PlayStation 4 and Windows via Steam, with the Xbox One port Become as Gods Edition published in 2018."
  • Sorted, I think.
  • "during each of which additional story elements are unlocked." -> "with each playthrough revealing new story elements."
  • Done.
  • "and includes switches between " -> "It also includes gameplay from other" (start with a new sentence)
  • Done.
  • "roles in Nier" -> "from (the original) Nier".
  • Altered.
  • "Artist Akihiko Yoshida taking charge of character design." -> the grammar here is a little funny, but this is also an opportunity to explain who this is.
  • Done.
  • "references several philosophies and" -> I might drop this since the rest of the sentence is stronger, and explains it more clearly.
  • Done.
  • "media expansions" -> this is a little vague. I might just say books and stage plays.
  • Done.
  • Gameplay
  • "the sectioned open world." -> "an open world." The meaning of sectioned isn't clear here and I'm not sure it adds anything.
  • Done.
  • "using light or heavy attacks, and combining them for" -> "using both light and heavy attacks for"
  • Done.
  • "The first 2B alternates" -> "The first protagonist 2B alternates"
  • Done.
  • "combined light attacks" -> "combines light attacks"
  • Done.
  • Overall this section has a better flow and seems more clear now.
  • Synopsis
  • "Later, A2, another playable character, is introduced: A2 in an obsolete attack android with a taciturn personality who often acts alone" -> "The game later introduces another player character named A2, an obsolete attack android who often acts alone."
  • Done.
  • I'd start the plot section by stating the obvious. "The story of Nier: Automata is told through multiple playthroughs from different character perspectives."
  • Done.
  • Consider a paragraph break before the third playthrough.
  • Done.
  • "it is revealed " -> you use this phrasing a couple of times, and it's not really clear how it is revealed. Is it something they discover in the environment? Is it something that's explained by another character?
  • Altered it to characters learning it, which happens in bits between 9S and A2. Sorry if this isn't ideal, but the storytelling style in Automata is deliberately disjointed.
  • "Machine Network offers him the chance to join them" -> a proper noun would probably be more clear than a pronoun here.
  • Altered the phrasing.
  • Development
  • " narrative concerning the world's inherent unfairness and prejudices the characters are forced to confront" -> "narrative about confronting prejudice and unfairness in the world."
  • Done.
  • "The narrative references numerous influential philosophers and thinkers, after whom some Machine characters are named after such as supporting character" -> "The narrative references numerous influential philosophers and thinkers, with Machine androids taking notable names such as supporting character"
  • Done, but Androids don't use them.
  • " to work on the sequel" -> I think you can drop this, since it's implied.
  • Done
  • " be crisper" -> "be more concise".
Where was this? I can't find it anywhere.
  • " The team also needed to decide about the voice acting, whether to use regional accents or to alter voice types; for instance whether to change one character's high-pitched child voice to a more mature one to avoid annoyance to players." -> I think this might be phrased better in terms of what they actually decided. Right now it sounds like they didn't decide anything.
  • Done
  • Release
  • "Square Enix announced the game's official title " / " An official title had not been chosen by the time of its announcement" -> These two sentences seem to contradict each other. I'm not sure if it's because the sequence is unclear, or because it needs to be rephrased. These two thoughts also seem connected enough that they should be in the same paragraph, unless I'm missing something.
  • Sorted.
  • " the team decided to release Nier: Automata for late-2016 or early 2017, " -> " the team decided to delay Nier: Automata until late-2016 or early 2017,"
  • Done.
  • " Yoko appreciated the delay because it gave the developers more time to finish the game " -> "Yoko appreciated having more time for the team to finish the game."
  • Done.
  • " released Windows personal computers" -> " released (on/for) Windows personal computers"
  • Done.
  • " To alleviate this problem, the companies considered using the digital rights management (DRM) system Denuvo." -> similar to the localization choice above, it sounds like they considered it, but it's not clear if they did anything about it. It's better to talk about what they did. And if they didn't, I might clarify that, or drop it entirely.
  • I just dropped this.
  • "some themed after the mobile game Nier Reincarnation" -> needs punctuation.
  • Done
  • Reception
  • " themes met" -> " themes were met
  • Done
  • The third paragraph might deserve to be before the second, just as a matter of WP:WEIGHT. The game received acclaim across all platforms, and it's probably more fair to lead with the positive reviews, and saving the issues and criticisms for later. In fact, that second paragraph might be best at the end of this section.
  • I...have no idea what you meant by that above. I already tried to arrange the individual critic comments from most to least positive, but clearly that somehow hasn't worked. I've moved the summary back to the bottom of the section, if that sorts whatever issue you found.
  • Additional media
  • "A manga adaptation of the YoRHa stage play that is titled YoRHa Pearl Harbor Descent Record, began serialization on Square Enix's Manga UP! online manga service." -> "The stage play was also adapted into a manga called YoRHa Pearl Harbor Descent Record, which began serialization on Square Enix's Manga UP! online manga service."
  • Done
  • "The DLC, which was released on December 19, includes" -> "Released on December 19, the DLC included"
  • Done
I know it's been a lot. But my hope is this will make it easier for additional FA reviewers to sign off on this. The prose is very close to FA quality. Shooterwalker (talk) 02:48, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Shooterwalker: Addressed all I could. Awaiting reply. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:35, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Gave it another look over and I feel good about recommending it for FA based on the prose. It couldn't hurt to have another set of eyes on it, but the article reads clearly and comprehensively to me. Thanks for all your hard work on this. Shooterwalker (talk) 04:44, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

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@ProtoDrake: Nice to see this article being nominated especially with the new anime. I might make comments but I'll do the source review meanwhile.

  • Every source happens to be wp:reliable source
  • Every reference is well formatted
  • The only thing that seems lacking are translations to the Japanese references in the formatting. Do that and I'll pass the source review. Keep up the good work.22:16, 17 February 2023 (UTC)Tintor2 (talk)
@Tintor2: I've added trans-titles to non-English references, and also archived remaining references and done some ref formatting for consistency and accuracy. --ProtoDrake (talk) 12:59, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Pass the source review.Tintor2 (talk) 14:53, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Accessibility review

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Add col scopes, row scopes, and a caption to the awards table per MOS:DTAB. Heartfox (talk) 02:21, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done @Heartfox: Thanks, Indagate (talk) 13:01, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Indagate

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Quick thing noticed when doing the above, Reference 111 to https://www.platinumgames.com/archives/awards is a primary source, better for it to be secondary if possible please. Thanks, Indagate (talk) 13:03, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Indagate: Thank you for the help. And I've addressed the primary source issue as far as possible. The awards are now sourced from either the award website/source itself, or a website reporting on nominees/winners. --ProtoDrake (talk) 13:41, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looks better, thanks Indagate (talk) 13:43, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment

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This has been open for nearly four weeks and has only picked up the single general support. I have added it to Urgents, but unless it receives further in depth reviews over the next four or five days I am afraid that it is going to time out. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:04, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I hate to do it, but I'll be archiving this per the above note. Hog Farm Talk 02:23, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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