Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Pithole, Pennsylvania/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 22:23, 19 June 2010 [1].

Pithole, Pennsylvania

Featured article candidates/Pithole, Pennsylvania/archive1

Nominator(s): Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 01:26, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pithole was short-lived oil boomtown that lived fast and died young. A city like Pithole you'd expect to have been located in Old West, rather than the woods of Pennsylvania. It sprung up in 1865 and was mostly deserted over a year later. The article is modeled loosely on the FA Rhyolite, Nevada and I believe it now meets the FAC criteria. Dincher and Ruhrfisch both provided thorough and helpful peer review comments. Plazak provided the lead image (which got me to thinking of expanding the article). Thanks in advance for any feedback... Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 01:26, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by an odd name—prose looks good and probably meets 1a.

No dab links or dead externals (one link turns up green in the link checky but works fine). Yay.
Dates are consistent Month Day, Year throughout. Double Yay.
Not liking the space between refs and statements in the infobox. Looks like a template quirk (removing spaces between ref tags and equals signs doesn't fix them).
Ref 18 says "1 = 5 chains." Is there a missing unit on the left side, or is the 1 just an absolute grid/tick span thing?

Not sure how I missed that; original map says "five chains to 1 inch". Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 14:14, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure about that last external link. There's some apparent warm and nostalgic comments by the copyright holder there, but I still sense a trap. I might just be oversensitive.

I though it was interesting and unique enough to warrant it. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 14:14, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Naming: "...with some measuring 14 inches (36 cm) wide and 8 feet (2.4 m) long. Another possible explanation involves the discovery of ancient pits dug by early settlers, some 8 feet (2.4 m) wide and 12 feet (3.7 m) deep..."—I don't like the repeated 8 feet conversion so close to the first. It's not too bad—could be worse, I suppose.
Boom:
- "The teamsters were notorious for mistreatment of their horses, most of which lost their hair due to a buildup of oil and only had a lifespan of a few months in Pithole."—ouch! Poor horsies :,(
- "Samuel Van Sykle, an oil buyer also frustrated with the teamsters, designed the world's first pipeline"—might want to reconcile para 1 of the Pipeline transport article's body, which suggests there is "some argument" about that (but looks uncited there).

The source I used only mentions Van Sykle, but that is no different than the many history books that say the Wright brothers flew the first heaver-than-air craft, which also is disputed by some. If I find a decent source, I'll see about fixing that. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 14:14, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Visitors center: "forced the cancellation of festival and the visitors center to remain closed for much of the 2010 summer"—"the festival"?

I'm thinking of dropping that sentence, as it will eventually become dated. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 14:14, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Stereo cards are fun. :)

Aren't they! :-) Since using a stereo card in a previous FA, I've learned to look for them. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 14:14, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

From a glance, the rest looks good or plausible overall. Feels like the Halkett boat, but in town form and abandoned to a more disastrous doom. You win some, you burn some. --an odd name 04:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for checking dabs and dead links. I felt Pithole was interesting enough to spend time and effort on it. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 14:14, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sources comments

Some online sources are listed as "Sources" while others, e.g. Hirschl, Love, Hahn etc are not. Is there a rationale?

I used WP:CITESHORT where different pages were cited, but some of the sources are only on 1 page and it seemed unhelpful to make the reader look in two different when there wasn't a reason to. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 14:14, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I mentioned this because it seems to me that if an article has a list headed "Sources", the reader will naturally expect this to be a list of all the sources, not just some of them. Brianboulton (talk) 23:09, 11 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Would using "Notes" and "References" as section headings instead of "References" and "Sources" work better? I've usually done that, except when I needed the "Notes" heading for actual footnotes in a previous FA. I think I may have done the same thing here, but decided against the footnote and never changed the headings back. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:22, 11 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~The Darrach book has a location (Gettysburg) but not a publisher.~~

Self-published; added it. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 14:14, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise, sources look good, no further issues. Brianboulton (talk) 12:31, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for checking the sources. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 14:14, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Ruhrfisch. I peer reviewed this as noted, and made a few copyedits to it. I felt it met the FAC criteria at the end of the peer review and am glad to support. I note the following quibbles which I missed in the PR, which do not detract from my support.

This sentence does not seem to follow WP:Logical quotation Another possible explanation involves the discovery of ancient pits dug by early settlers, some 8 feet (2.4 m) wide and 12 feet (3.7 m) deep, that were "cribbed with heavy timbers impregnated with petroleum."[7] - the period should follow the terminal quotation mark, I believe.

The terminal period is found in the original quote. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 20:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, SandyGeorgia generally checks this anyway. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 23:15, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tighten (remove first "century")? "pit-holes", found along Oil Creek and in Cornplanter Township, supposedly predate the Senecas who inhabited the area from the mid-17th ~~century~~ to the late-18th century.[8]

Removed. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 20:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tighten (remove second "sometimes") The presence of folds in the caprock called anticlines, or sometimes an inversion of an anticline called a syncline, greatly varies the depth that the reservoir would form, ~~sometimes~~ from around 4,000 feet (1,200 m) to just beneath the surface.[9][10]

Tightened. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 20:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Clarify which streets in All five [north-south?] streets terminated at First Street; Mason started at Third, Prather and Brown started at Fourth. Duncan and Holmden Streets both began at a Y-intersection with the road from Titusville. "All five cross-streets" might also work here

Added north–south. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 20:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the History section the Iroquois are mentioned, but not the Seneca. Since the Seneca were a member of the 5 or 6 Nations of the Iroquois, I would mention them here somehow. Perhaps something like On October 23, 1784, the Iroquois[, including the Seneca,] ceded the land to Pennsylvania in the Treaty of Fort Stanwix.[24] May make more sense to mention them in the previous sentence about the Erie and the Iroquois.

Added. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 20:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Punctuation fix with quote needed here too Amongst all the glamour, "every other building [in Pithole] was a bar."[6]

Terminal period was not included in original quote, so fixed. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 20:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Barrels and tanks are unclear in the original - suggest something like this instead? Along with the pipeline, another innovation developed in Pithole was the railroad tank car, which was essentially two wooden tanks, each with a capacity of 80 barrels, mounted onto a flatcar.[41]

Reworded. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 20:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unclear sentence - what do the wells have to do with falling population? By December 1866, 27 wells brought the population down even further to just 2,000 people.

Part of the orginal article that, somehow, got cut up. Took care of it. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 20:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would keep the 2010 partial closure in - it is notable.

Nice job! Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 20:16, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I have struck everything that needed attention above - well done and thanks again for an interesting and enjoyable read. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 23:15, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support - my concerns were taken care of at PR. Well done and interesting. Dincher (talk) 20:50, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support ~~Comments~~ by Finetooth. Interesting article about an unusual place. I made a few copyedits, and here is a fairly short list of concerns:

Lead

~~"site of the first commercial oil well" - I'd alter this to say "site of the world's first commercial oil well".~~

Altered. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~"Pithole's ... being" is awkward. Suggestion: as well as its status as a "proving ground" of sorts.~~

Replaced. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~I would not link "newspaper" or "pipeline" since most readers already know what they mean.~~

Unlinked. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Naming

"cribbed with heavy timbers impregnated with petroleum." - Words inside direct quotes should not be linked. Since "cribbed" needs explaining, you might paraphrase and link. Suggestion: cribbed with oil-soaked timbers.

Replaced. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Geology

~~"The presence of folds in the caprock called anticlines... " - Maybe add "upward-curving" to "folds" to make the anticline shape visually more clear?~~

Added. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Over time, the oil migrates to the surface eventually become trapped beneath an impervious layer of rock called a caprock, forming a reservoir." - Maybe "Over time, the oil migrated toward the surface, became trapped beneath an impervious layer of caprock, and formed a reservoir."

Replaced. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~"greatly varies the depth that the reservoir would form" - Perhaps "greatly varied the depth of the reservoir"?~~

Replaced. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~"by the Frazier Well, according to report by the Oil City Register." - Should that be "a report" or possibly "reports"?~~

Fixed. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Geography and climate

"The average 44 inches (1,100 mm) of precipitation a year, would wreak havoc on the many unpaved streets in Pithole, especially with heavily traveled First and Holmden Streets." - Could be tightened to: "The average 44 inches (1,100 mm) of precipitation a year wreaked havoc on Pithole's many unpaved streets, especially the heavily traveled First and Holmden."

Tightened. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Boom

"A second railroad was planned and partially constructed, but was never completed; other attempts were made, but never made it out the planning stages." - Missing word "of"? Also, it's not entirely clear what "other attempts" refers to. Would this be more clear: "A second railroad was partly built but never finished, and plans for other railroads never led to construction"?

Replaced. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bust

"In March 1866, a chain of banks throughout the oil region owned by Charles Vernon Culver, a financier and member of United States House of Representatives for Pennsylvania's 20th congressional district, collapsed, triggering a financial panic." - This might be misunderstood to mean that Culver owned the oil region. Suggestion: "In March 1866, a chain of banks owned by Charles Vernon Culver, a financier and member of United States House of Representatives for Pennsylvania's 20th congressional district, collapsed. This triggered a financial panic throughout the oil region."

Changed. I tweaked the last sentence to get it to flow it better with the next one. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looks fine. Finetooth (talk) 02:03, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~"The worst fire occurred on August 2, burning down several city blocks and destroying 27 wells." - Maybe "A worse" rather than "the worst". Or were there more than two fires?~~

There were several fires. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I took liberties and changed the sentence to read, "The worst of multiple fires occurred on August 2... ". Feel free to discuss or alter again if you don't agree. Finetooth (talk) 02:03, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"With numerous oil strikes elsewhere in Venango County in 1867 and Pithole's hastily constructed wooden buildings falling victim to fire, people were drawn away from Pithole, often taking their buildings with them or just abandoning their property." - Non-parallel construction. Suggestion: "When many oil strikes occurred elsewhere in Venango County in 1867, people left Pithole, often taking their houses with them or abandoning their property." Since you've explained the fires of 1866 in the preceding paragraph, you probably don't need to repeat it in this sentence.

Changed. Tweaked it to include "places of business" as well, as it wasn't just houses that were moved. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good. Finetooth (talk) 02:03, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Visitors center

~~"a wagon used to transport oil that is stuck in mud" - Since the oil isn't stuck in mud, perhaps "an oil-transport wagon that is stuck in mud".~~

Replaced. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Budget cuts, renovations at the Drake Well Museum and bridge construction on Pithole Road between Pithole and Pennsylvania Route 227, however, forced the cancellation of the festival and the visitors center to remain closed for much of the 2010 summer." - Non-parallel construction. Suggestion: "Budget cuts, renovations at the Drake Well Museum, and bridge construction on Pithole Road between Pithole and Pennsylvania Route 227, however, forced cancellation of the festival, and the visitors center was closed for much of the 2010 summer."

Changed. Tweaked it a bit, as parts of it didn't sound right to me. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The basic problem with the sentence seems to be that the festival is in the past, but the closure is indefinite and mostly in the future. Maybe something like this would work: "However, budget cuts, renovations at the Drake Well Museum, and bridge construction on Pithole Road between Pithole and Pennsylvania Route 227 forced the cancellation of the festival in 2010, and the visitor center is expected to be closed for much of the summer."

Ideally, it should be worded such that I won't have to come back in the fall (when the construction is completed) and flip it from present / future to past tense. If such a thing is impossible, then I'm fine with the wording you propose. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 14:06, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any alternative to updating every article in the encyclopedia at unpredictable intervals, but this morning my nitpick about this particular sentence seems a little too nitpicky. Let's call it a draw. I'm striking this last one. Finetooth (talk) 17:08, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See also

~~On my computer screen, the portals box overlaps a section boundary. It should be moved down to fit inside the "See also" section.~~

Moved. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External links

~~The Commons box also overlaps two sections and displaces an edit button. It should be moved down a bit into the "External links" section.~~

Moved. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Finetooth (talk) 22:04, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I've made some changes where it didn't sound quite right to me, so a second look might be needed. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your quick response. I've taken a second look, and I'm striking ~~all but one of~~ my concerns and changing to support. Excellent article. Finetooth (talk) 02:03, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Images; have images been reviewed? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:55, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All look OK to me. The lead image is "own photo". The two maps are derivatives from USGS base maps. The stereo card and Holmden Street images are pre-1923. The Methodist church and visitors center are Flikr licensed as 2.0 generic. Finetooth (talk) 20:07, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support - wrt criterion 1a. Some of the prose is quite poetic: strange fissures from which sulfurous fumes wafted —I love the alliteration :-) Graham Colm (talk) 20:23, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for support. Such "poetry" was entirely accidental ;-) Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 20:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Beautiful prose nonetheless. Graham Colm (talk) 20:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please review WP:OVERLINKing. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:54, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.