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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Rupert Downes/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 31 August 2022 [1].

Rupert Downes

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Nominator(s): Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:07, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Rupert Downes, an Australian general of World War II. It was part of a series I wrote on senior Australian commanders in World War II. It was previously nominated back in 2011 and closed for lack of reviews. Maybeit can do better this time. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:07, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Comments Support by Zawed

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  • Lead: The structure of the 1st paragraph seems a little odd to me, with the second sentence out of place chronologically with what follows.
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:47, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Education and early life section: the title of Downes' thesis has Thymus capitalised but the remainder, apart from the first word, is lower case. Just want to check that is correct.
    It is indeed capitalised that way in the source, But I see no harm in de-captalising it. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:47, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • First World War section: it feels like the 2nd para needs to start with a mention of the commencement of the Gallipoli campaign for a bit of context.
    Added a bit. It used to be that Australians knew this bit by heart, as it came up every Anzac Day, but I'm not sure about the millennials. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:47, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe place his substantive promotion to colonel later, for better flow of chronology. There is also repeated usage of 1916 when it is clear that the timeline hasn't moved into 1917.
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:47, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • especially the DMS EEF: although it is pretty obvious what it is for, the abbreviation doesn't seem to have been introduced.
    Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:47, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there another source that could be used for the Sinai campaign to reduce the reliance on Downes' own work?
    Sure. Added a bit. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:47, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hope the above helps with getting this to FA. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:45, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Have added my support. Zawed (talk) 03:39, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Harry

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Looks to be up to your usual standard; just a few quibbles! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:46, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from ErnestKrause

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Reflecting most of the positive comments made above, I'm wondering if there might be room for expanding the Legacy section with some added details here mostly reflecting what was included in the Wikipedia article for Australia in the War of 1939–1945. If this was to be his magnum opus, then maybe something like an adapted version of the passage from the main article might work as an adjusted CWW. Possibly mention the team of scholars who took over for him, how long it took them to write it, etc. It seems like his great unfinished project. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:31, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have added a bit about it. The medical series was completed by Allan S. Walker. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:54, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nice addition. Optionally, I think the very last volume of the series was written by new collaborators in addition to Walker. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:13, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it was. Added a bit more. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:30, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

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Footnote numbers refer to this version.

Those are the only issues I can see. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:59, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pass. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:50, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

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I've copyedited a little; please revert anything you disagree with.

  • I paused at the list of children's names, surprised to see "Major" there as if it were their surname. I realize it's completely accurate, but perhaps to avoid the reader's surprise we could make this something like "They had three children, all given the same middle name as Rupert: Rosemary Major, born in 1914; Valerie Major, born in March 1918; and John Rupert Major, born in 1922"?
    Sure. Changed as suggested. (Note that Rupert's middle name was his father's first name.) Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:03, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "until he returned to Anzac on 11 August": what does "Anzac" refer to here? I know what it stands for, but if it's the cove then shouldn't it be "ANZAC Cove"? I see instances of both all-caps and title case elsewhere.
    In this context, it refers to the Anzac Cove lodgement. And yes, it is Anzac Cove (Anzak Koyu). Unfortunately, the meaning of ANZAC has been drummed into schoolchildren, and it is a losing battle to keep changing all-capitals back to the (correct) sentence case. (And yes, we persuaded the Turks to name part of their country after people who came to invade the place.) Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:03, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggest linking heat stroke. And I had to think what "defective evaporation" might mean; presumably it means a humid environment in which perspiration does not evaporate well and hence fails to perform its cooling function? If so I think it could be clearer, particular as the heatstroke article isn't going to explain it as it's not the cause.
    Linked. The source says:

    The cause of heat exhaustion and heat-stroke in the light horse and New Zealand troops was held by Lieutenant-Colonel C. J. Martin to be not only defective evaporation, as has been maintained, but excessive loss combined with grossly insufficient intake of fluid under conditions of heavy muscular effort. The moral is obvious, namely, that unnecessary water discipline may easily become a calamity if not correlated with a due regard for physiological requirements in regard to fluid intake. It is in limitation of the frequency of drinking in relation to the available water supply that water discipline is physiologically sound and militarily valuable.

  • Suggest "third from left" rather than "centre" for the caption of the 1936 picture, as there are an even number of men in the front row.
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:03, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The two men had discussed the prospect": what does "prospect" refer to? The prospect of writing about the events of the war?
    Yes. Clarified this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:03, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "one of the chapters of the Official History": I think this is a reference to the book, not the concept, so italics would be appropriate.
    There are 15 volumes, three of them comprise the medical series. Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:03, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I can see that the paragraphs of the "Interwar years" section can't be ordered strictly chronologically, because the threads they cover extend across different ranges of years. I was going to suggest that the paragraph about John's illness and death be moved up before the previous paragraph, but after thinking about it some more I think it would be better to move it down one paragraph instead. The paragraph starting "On 20 August 1934" starts with Downes taking a full time position in the army, which would follow naturally after the end of the paragraph about John.
    Sure. Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:03, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's everything I have; all minor issues. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:22, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. It would be nice to clarify the "defective evaporation", but the source doesn't allow it. I searched for historical explanations of heat stroke in 19th century books, via Google, and found some relevant quotes, but nothing I think you can use. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:13, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by JennyOz

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Hi Hawkeye, another fine bio. Just a few comments and questions...

Lede

Education and early life

First World War

Interwar years

Second World War

Death and legacy

Refs

Category

That's me. JennyOz (talk) 16:03, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:05, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I always enjoy reading your bios and am happy to s'port. JennyOz (talk) 07:49, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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