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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Tank Girl (film)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 06:30, 8 August 2015 [1].

Tank Girl (film)

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Nominator(s): Freikorp (talk) 04:14, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the 1995 science fiction action comedy film. Truly one of a kind; people either love it or don't get it at all. I've loved it since the first time I watched it as a child. Freikorp (talk) 04:14, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Editorofthewiki: Yeah good point, I added four more reviews. Better? (Haha yeah you either love it or hate it, you don't find many people sitting on the fence about this one lol)Freikorp (talk) 05:27, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Editorofthewiki: Found a tiny bit more info, specifically what it grossed in its opening weekend, but it wasn't much. I've merged it with above section. There's plenty of sources that give the box office results a line or two of comment, saying it "tanked at the box office' or something similar etc, do you think I should add a sentence like that or just leave it as the raw facts? Freikorp (talk) 04:46, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • As far as the box office performance is concerned, it's a small problem that only the US gross is listed. The IMDb gives a figure for the worldwide gross, and while I know we can't cite that page it does at least tell us that the information is out there somewhere. Fortunately, Variety has something I don't think would be synthesis to include if carefully worded. I think we can use that, plus the remaining tidbits from Box Office Mojo, to at give a narrative to the theatrical run in terms other than, "it was released, made x, bombed." Try something along the lines of this, which foregrounds the important part (it bombed) before going into the fine detail (such as it is) for those so inclined:

In the United States, Tank Girl "sank like a stone at the box office". Opening in 1,341 theaters, the film made $2,018,183 in its first weekend, towards $2,684,430 in its first week of release. By the end of its second week, Tank Girl had made only $3,668,762. Its final gross in the United States was $4,064,495. Internationally, the film added approximately $2,000,000 to that total, against a production budget of $25 million.

All with cites in the appropriate places, of course. Steve T • C 20:07, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Thanks so much for your comments and finding that source Steve. I've added that reference to the infobox and changed the gross revenue there to be "Approx $6 million". If you have any further comments i'd love to hear them. Cheers. Freikorp (talk) 23:57, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Editorofthewiki: @Steve: Hi guys, just pinging you both here one final time to see if you have any further comments or concerns. Freikorp (talk) 05:08, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Cliftonian. Have capped all my input below. Well done Freikorp. —  Cliftonian (talk)  11:36, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Cliftonian
I've never actually seen Tank Girl, but I have seen the Nostalgia Critic's review of it (he does not care for the film). I'll note thoughts as I go through.

Infobox, lead

  • Perhaps clarify in the infobox that it's based on the Tank Girl *comic*
  • They had these three people billed above *Malcolm McDowell*? ... (no action)
  • Why not mention in the second sentence that the Tank Girl comic, or the Deadline magazine, was British?
  • "a film adaptation of the Tank Girl comic" shouldn't Tank Girl be italicised here?
  • "Talalay applied to Deadline publisher Tom Astor to direct a film adaptation" This isn't quite clear. Did Talalay ask for the film rights, or permission to direct the film, or what? We don't make clear that Astor did indeed grant permission.
  • "Special effects were done by" seems clunky to me
  • Hmm, my only problem with this is that while Winston's study certainly handled the Rippers costumes (which granted is un-doutebly the most notable special effect in the film), they wouldn't have done all special effects; I think other teams would have done the scale models and computer effects for example. Your thoughts on wording accordingly? Freikorp (talk) 01:55, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "which she had no control over" perhaps "which she said she had no control over"
  • "it has achieved a cult following." where, principally? among whom?

Plot

  • Copyedited this.
  • Reference was made to the girls realising they'd been "set up" when they found the body of Johnny Prophet in one of the crates? Set up by whom? W&P?
  • Oh ok. So they go to an awful lot of trouble of stealing the heavily guarded weapons crates. When they get them back to the Rippers hideout the Rippers state their intentions of destroying the weapons, though when they begin to open the crates most are empty, though one contains the body of Johnny Prophet. When the Ripers start howling/screaming in rage, it is revealed that Kesslee is listening in on them and is laughing at their distress (Tank Girl is revealed to have been bugged). Let me know if you need anything else clarified. :) Freikorp (talk) 01:55, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • When exactly do they get the tank? And where from? Do they have it from the start?

Themes

  • "Writing in the book The Modern Amazons: Warrior Women On-Screen, Dominique Mainon said the film" perhaps "In her 2006 book The Modern Amazons: Warrior Women On-Screen, Dominique Mainon writes that the film"
  • "unlike many comic-book adaptation films which gratuitously objectify women" careful; it is her opinion that comic-book adaptations "gratuitously objectify" women, not something that we should say in Wikipedia's voice
  • "with the exception of the "cliché victim/avenger complex"" does she say specifically where this occurs? Which characters?
  • "as shown by Tank Girl's response to the computer training device instructing her how to dress appropriately at the Liquid Silver club" what is her response?
  • We keep making reference to Tank Girl being tortured, but never is it made clear how she is tortured.
  • Could you please describe for me exactly how this pipe operates in the film? I'm trying to copyedit but without actually knowing it's hard to find the right wording. What's the torture here? That she's supposed to be scared that she might drown? —  Cliftonian (talk)  01:15, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • So it is a very long pipe on a downward slope. As the pipe goes on and on it gets smaller and smaller, meaning you will eventually get stuck when sliding down it. Once stuck in addition to the claustrophobia, the pipe is then filled with water, giving the impression that drowning is imminent. Though is the later case with Sam Kesslee probably does intend for her to die. Let me know if you need to know anything else. Freikorp (talk) 01:55, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Production

  • "About a year after the launch of the Tank Girl comic in 1988, Deadline publisher Tom Astor initiated the search for a studio interested in making a film version." Make clear what Deadline is. Why not mention anywhere that this was a British comic? The reader will presume it was American.
  • "While several studios including New Line Cinema expressed interest," perhaps "While several studios expressed interest, including New Line Cinema ..."
  • "while she was shooting her debut directorial film, Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare" who? Talalay or the stepdaughter?
  • "debut directorial film" perhaps "directorial debut film"?
  • "read the comic in between takes" perhaps "read the comic between takes"
  • By this stage, Booga "was a character and not just a kangaroo [so] it wasn't an issue anymore." who is this a quote from?
  • Crap. I'm not 100% sure, it was probably Petty or Talalay. All I remember was that is was in the making of book, which I seem to have lost since the last time I moved house. Freikorp (talk) 04:36, 15 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "It was purchased from the government of Peru about 12 years prior to filming, and had already been used in several films" Who bought it? MGM? Which other films was it in? Was it in any films after Tank Girl?
  • Unfortunately I didn't find a lot of info on the tank itself. The Blu-ray directors commentary does mention that the modification they made to the tank were removed after filming, though one would expect this so I didn't mention it in the article. Do you think I should mention that? Freikorp (talk) 04:36, 15 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Soundtrack

  • Perhaps mention Greg Graffin's from Bad Religion and Paul Westerberg, who replaced him, is appropriately from the Replacements
  • "it peaked at No. 27 on the Mainstream Rock chart and No. 12 on the Modern Rock Tracks chart." in the US, right?
  • "Stephen Thomas Erlewine from Allmusic" not of Allmusic?
  • Aren't Hole Courtney Love's own band?

Release

  • Rebecca De Mornay, Lauren Tom, Brendan Frasier and Jason Simmons: who are these people and why were they there? (Isn't it Brendan Fraser? Or is that someone else?)
  • "Rachel Buck" what?
  • "Tank Girl only ever received a "basic" DVD release" what's a "basic" DVD?

Legacy and related media

  • "Despite being a critical and commercial failure, the film has achieved cult status." see point above. Where? When? Among whom? Is this a recent phenomenon? Why has it achieved cult status?
  • "A novelization of the film was written by Martin Millar,[60] and Peter Milligan wrote an adaptation comic.[61]" When? Why? With whose approval/permission? Were they faithful to the film?

References, external links etc all look fine to me.

A pretty good job overall and an article I enjoyed reviewing. An odd film (haven't watched it personally, but have seen a fairly thorough summary and read of a couple of reviews). If you ask me part of why it did so badly at the box office was probably the really appalling theatrical release poster, which makes the film look like something for kids. Anyway, I hope this helps. Cheers, —  Cliftonian (talk)  01:23, 15 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Cliftonian: Yeah they could have done a much better job of that poster come to think of it. Anyway thanks so much for the very thorough review. I've made a reply to each one of your points. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say about them. Freikorp (talk) 06:52, 15 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Replied to points specifically above. Mostly okay; I've stricken what's been dealt with. I've rearranged and copy-edited the last section a bit to give a nice peroration ("I'm happy that I got to do it and that I'll always have her."). One more comment: we refer to "super soldiers" in the lead, with a wikilink, but don't mention the concept in the article itself. (I know some super soldiers personally, but that's another story). Cheers, —  Cliftonian (talk)  01:15, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Replied to everything again. Looks like we're nearly there. Thanks again for the copyedits, particularly to the last section. Freikorp (talk) 02:13, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. —  Cliftonian (talk)  02:45, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • We mention several people in the infobox who are then never brought up in the article, for example Graeme Revell (composer), Tedi Sarafian (screenplay), Gale Tattersall (cinematography).
  • Hmm, I never even noticed Revell being mentioned. Turns out he did the film's score. Forums have provided me with the information that it was never released as an album, though bootlegged copies are all over the internet. I added a referenced sentence stating he did the score in the prose. I'm working on the other two now. Freikorp (talk) 13:24, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I can find plenty of source that confirm Tattersall did the cinematography, but nothing specifically about her work on the film. The only thing interesting i've found is this DVD Verdict review [2], which comments on the fact the film's main cast and crew were largely female, noting Tattersall of one of the notable crew members. Do you think the source is good enough to say something similar in the article? Or should I just stick to one sentence stating she was the cinematographer? Freikorp (talk) 13:41, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Likewise there was plenty of source saying Tedi Sarafian wrote the screenplay, but nothing much about him. The only exception was a source I found stating it was his first production credit. I added that information to the article. Freikorp (talk) 14:15, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yeah that's what I mean. I only used that term because it is what the source says - the source doesn't specifically say it was his first screenplay, though I suppose it wouldn't be an unreasonable leap to say that instead. Freikorp (talk) 10:53, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • In which countries was the film released, do we know?
  • I surprisingly never came across any information on the film's release in other countries, with the exception that Talalay mentions something about the UK premiere in the director's commentary. Even precise box office figures for other countries couldn't be found unfortunately. My only source to go off is IMDb, which of course isn't reliable but it would give me something to at least attempt to start digging further on the matter if you'd like me to. [3] Freikorp (talk) 00:08, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • We say in the infobox that the film was released on 31 March 1995, but in the article we say it premiered on 30 March. I would clarify this somehow.

Will note more as and when. Hope this helps. —  Cliftonian (talk)  08:15, 20 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

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  • File:Tank_girl_poster.jpg should explicitly identify the copyright holder
  • File:Tank_Girl_open_casting.jpg: if this image is to be included, it should have a more extensive FUR - "how casting for the film was sought" can easily be expressed in text. We'll also need to know the copyright holder, and original publication details would be very helpful.
  • Added as much justification as I could think of. Let me know if it's not enough, or if you could think of further justification. The add features both the logo's for MGM and United Artists, so I have mentioned that copyright for the image would belong to one, or both, of these companies. Original publications details are unknown but I have narrowed it down as much as I can. I can have a look through microfilm next chance I get, and see if I can find the exact date, if that will help keep the image. Freikorp (talk) 13:12, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Tank_Girl_film_tank.jpg also needs a more extensive FUR, as the current one does not identify the purpose of use beyond "informational"; it too should explicitly identify copyright holder. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:49, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've specified in the description that the modifications are "outlandish". I could go into further detail but I think it's clear from the image that these are not the modifications that would typically be made to a tank. :) Freikorp (talk) 02:40, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Bollyjeff

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Soundtrack section:

  • No need for a review table with only one entry.
  • Sources for most of the additional soundtrack songs?
  • Do you think I can just cite the film's credits for this? I dare-say that's the only place the information would be. The Shaft theme is currently cited to the director's commentary. Freikorp (talk) 23:49, 20 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes you can. BollyJeff | talk 00:19, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hold on i'll get to this, just want to make sure each song actually appears in the credits first. Freikorp (talk) 11:44, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Credits verify each song. I've added the event time as 1:42:35, when the first one is verified, though the others gradually become verified over the next 60 seconds or so. Freikorp (talk) 13:02, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Production section:

  • Four duplicate links found in second paragraph.

Sources:

  • Refs 62 and 63 are identical.
  • Fixed. Unfortunately ref 63 gives no page number in the google books preview, so I don't know what page the information appears on, though I can certainly link to it. Freikorp (talk)
  • Ref 67 Who interviewed her? When? Audio, video, print?
  • Specified it was during her interview that appeared on the Blu-ray release. Whoever interviewed her is not actually specified (or even heard). The questions appear in text on the screen then Petty simply replies. Freikorp (talk) 23:49, 20 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please then cite the bluray and which special feature using 'cite media' and at what time it occurs during the feature using |time= . BollyJeff | talk 00:19, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The blu-ray was already cited, though i've formatted the reference to specifically say it is the blu-ray. I didn't bother adding times for any of the featurette sources. I no longer have access to the Blu-ray, so I can't add the time of the specific quote in the interview, though I deliberately left them out even when I had access to it. For starters it meant I would have had to reformat the same references several times to quote different times in a featurette, as opposed to just citing it once for all quotes from an interview. Plus I wan't asked to do so at my last sci-fi FAC (Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within) so I didn't think it was a necessity. Plus the featurette is only a few minutes long and if anyone feels the need to verify it i'm sure they'd be interested in watching the whole interview, rather than just skipping forward to that particular bit. Freikorp (talk) 11:44, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, its fine now. BollyJeff | talk 12:33, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why no link to the Wynne book? According to Open Library (and Amazon) it was published on May 4 1995.
Thanks for getting the exact date, i've added that to the article. There's no google books link because unlike the other books there is no preview available. Would you like me to link to this [4] anyway? Freikorp (talk) 13:05, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, so its consistent with the others. BollyJeff | talk 13:54, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Freikorp (talk) 14:05, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Peter Milligan wrote an adaptation comic in 1995,[61] and a novelization of the film by Martin Millar was published in 1996.[62]" Could these be listed as book citations under a 'Further reading' section? Also can the citations in this sentence be given via Open Library, instead of commercial site Amazon? BollyJeff | talk 13:54, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why aren't 63 and 64 listed in the bib like other books instead of inline?
No reason. Done now though. As previously mentioned 64 unfortunately doesn't have a page number though the url links to the exact spot in the book. Freikorp (talk) 14:05, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lead seems too short to me. There is nothing about Themes and too little about Production and Legacy. It should summarize the whole article better.
Still not addressed. BollyJeff | talk 23:46, 25 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Themes: "In her 2006 book The Modern Amazons: Warrior Women On-Screen". Italicize all book titles.
  • "as shown her repeated emasculation of Kesslee". Shown by her? Her who?
  • " The studio was unhappy with the choice of Hardwicke, who was relatively unknown at the time, over more experienced designers; Talalay had to meet with producers to persuade them to allow Hardwicke to work on the project" Perhaps: The studio was unhappy with the choice of Hardwicke over more experienced designers. Talalay had to meet with producers to persuade them to allow Hardwicke, who was relatively unknown at the time, to work on the project.
  • "skeptical that the open casting was a publicity stunt" Skeptical that it was a stunt. Don't think so.
  • Even the lead is still not good enough:
    • ", originally published in Deadline magazine". The comic or the film? Perhaps remove the preceding comma and insert "that was" to fix this.
    • "antiheroine" appears nowhere else in the article.
    • I am not sure that I would say "Winston's studio insisted on being given the project", especially in the lead. What, did they threaten them somehow?
  • I actually used to have an example of who said it in the body, though another FAC reviewer removed it. I agree with the removal, however, as I don't think it adds anything to the article to say which author said this and the book in which they said it in. This fact that it is said to have a cult following is very well cited in the body, and it's hardly an outrageous claim. Freikorp (talk) 01:11, 29 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Initial screening and box office - "as well as Rebecca De Mornay, Lauren Tom, Brendan Fraser and Jason Simmons." Why is this significant?
  • "Tank Girl "sank like a stone at the box office"" - Unattributed POV quote.
Go figure. These kinds of quotes should be attributed per WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV. BollyJeff | talk 14:05, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - There is just too much wrong here, and I still have not even read the whole article yet. BollyJeff | talk 12:16, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Bollyjeff: Well I must say that's not very helpful. I've made an attempt to address each concern you've raised or explain why I disagree with you, and now you're opposing without giving me anything specific to fix. As per the guidelines, "Each objection must provide a specific rationale that can be addressed." You're not giving me anything to address here. Freikorp (talk) 13:22, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This has turned into an extensive peer review. The article should be in better shape before coming to FAC, sorry. I am opposing primarily based on Wikipedia:Featured article criteria 1a. It is just not as good as other FAs that I have seen. BollyJeff | talk 14:05, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Lingzhi

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  • What's in the article is pretty much what the 'Making of' book said - jet thrusters were added as the tank was required to travel faster. However the book only said it in passing, and nothing is mentioned in the director's commentary about it. After reading the Making of book first I was surprised to not hear anything about jet thrusters in the director's commentary, especially as the director lamented how slow the tank was without saying adding anything about thrusters. I'm now thinking this information should be removed unless a second source is found. Freikorp (talk) 02:05, 22 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Mixed date styles, e.g. "Retrieved February 9, 2015." and "Retrieved 9 February 2015." The second style seems far more common, so probably should stick with that one. Don't forget nonbreaking spaces between month and date. Hang on... why do I see {{Use mdy dates}}? • Lingzhi♦(talk) 00:14, 22 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changed all to 'Retrieved 9 February 2015' style . Looks like a novice editor slipped in the mdy date tag for some unexplained reason and I never noticed the addition [5]. I've changed that now, since there was no basis or justification for it's addition. Freikorp (talk) 02:44, 22 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Lingzhi: Hmm I suppose that information could be moved to critical reception; that's the only other place it would fit in. I'll wait for a third opinion on the matter. Anyway please let me know if you have any further comments or concerns. Freikorp (talk) 05:12, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Lingzhi: Hi Lingzhi, this FAC is at the bottom of the older nominations list and a decision will likely be made very soon so i'm just pinging you here one last time to see if you have any final comments. Cheers. Freikorp (talk) 12:37, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support With one minor nit pick

  • Shouldn't numbers less than ten be represented with words?

(Mind reviewing this?) Thanks--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 15:22, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thanks. Freikorp (talk) 13:44, 25 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment -- sorry but this has been under way more than six weeks and we still don't have consensus to promote; while Bollyjeff's objection is indeed a general one regarding prose quality, scanning the article myself I feel that a copyedit by an uninvolved editor wouldn't go astray, and that should take place outside the FAC process. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:30, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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