Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Boat Race 2022/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 19 September 2022 [1].

The Boat Race 2022

Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:52, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Posh Brit university canoes back on the Thames after Covid disruption. Yes, it's not the Super Bowl. The men got it all wrong but the women triumphed, depending on your preferred shade of blue. As I write "short" FAs, I expect this to be a very truncated process and look forward to addressing concerns with incredible speed and guile. And thanks in advance to those of you who make constructive comments here, much appreciated. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:52, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from ChrisTheDude

I think the first, or at worst the second, paragraph of the lead should mention who actually competes in the Boat Race. At present we don't find that out until the third para and even then for the women's race we are only told the winner, not anyone else who took part.
"The women's senior race was umpired by John Garrett who rowed for CUBC" - you haven't used (or linked) the full names of the clubs in the body, only in the lead
The key to the map should probably indicate that the county names shown are historic counties. Barnes, Putney, etc, haven't been in Surrey for decades, and Middlesex no longer exists at all.
"He is a former Great Britain Olympic coach" - is there a way to re-word this to remove the present tense, so that it won't need updating when he's no longer with us (which I appreciate may be decades away, but it doesn't hurt to futureproof :-))
"Each year before Christmas, each squad stages" - change the first word to "every" to avoid repetition?
"and after a further blade clash, extended their" - not sure that comma needs to be there
"following warnings to both crews from the umpire to avoid a clash, Style held" - same here. Is this a standard form? It looks a little odd to me but maybe that's just me.......
That's what I got :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:53, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

ChrisTheDude Hi Chris, thanks for the comments, sorry for taking so long to get to them. I think I've addressed them all, solvling the final two by adding a comma before as well to bring out those clauses separately if that makes sense. Let me know if there's anything else I can do! Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:42, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:52, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review from Hawkeye7

File:Oxford winning the 2022 Boat Race (cropped).jpg, File:Grace Prendergast (NZL) 2021.jpg, File:Mérite sportif vaudois 2014 - Barnabe Delarze.jpg, File:Ruder-EM 2016 55 (Simon Schürch cropped).JPG - CC 4.0 images by Wikimedians - okay
File:Boat Race 2018 - Men's Blues Race (03).jpg - CC 4.0 image by Wikipedian - okay - but recommend dropping the "upright" parameter, as the image is not portrait mode

Support I reviewed this at GA, and believe it meets featured quality. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:09, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hawkeye7 thanks for both the previous GA review and this check-up. I've removed the upright parameter as you recommended. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:43, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from AirshipJungleman29

Lead needs restructuring.
- "The Boat Race 2022 took place on 3 April 2022." is a pretty terrible first sentence, considering it only conveys one piece of new information to unfamiliar readers—that the race, whatever it is, takes place on 3 April.
- The first link is in the third sentence. Why?
- The Tideway?
- "resulting in the head-to-head record between the universities being" rather wordy no?
Don't particularly like one sentence paragraphs, and one sentence sections even less. Is "The official fixtures to be conducted in advance of The Boat Race were announced on 27 January 2022" really worthy of a section for itself?
The 1927 Women's Boat Race is mentioned twice, but not linked.

Probably more to come. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:53, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello AirshipJungleman29 thanks for your comments. I've re-written the opening paragraph of the lead and trimmed some of the redundancy. I've fixed the one-sentence para (which I also dislike) and the 1927 WBR is already linked on the first instance (to whit: "... Before 2015, the women's race, which first took place in 1927, was usually ..."). Let me know if you have more thoughts! Thanks again. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:51, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

AirshipJungleman29 ? Gog the Mild (talk) 17:16, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:20, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from HAL

I admit I'm a bit oblivious when it comes to rowing, my only exposure being this scene from The Social Network.

cancellation of the 2020 race as a response to the COVID-19 pandemic -- > "race due to the" for concision
Are you sure? I'm never keen on "due to" and I'm never certain when it's appropriate. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What is a senior boat or senior race?
The main boats, as opposed to the reserve boats. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
after agreeing a four-year extension to their existing contract Is that proper English? Would "agreeing to a four-year extension on their..." be better?
No, that's proper English. Certainly in British. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe link coxing?
Lined. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Should it be Trial VIII's rather than Trial VIIIs?
No, in fact that article uses the apostrophe version just the once before reverting to the correct usage. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What is the Middlesex station? And the Surrey station?
That's shown on the explanatory map, the starting points depending on which side of the river. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would more clearly introduce what the names of the Cambridge boats are before using them. Also, who named the Cambridge boats that? And why?
I don't follow. There's no RS stating who or why they were thus named, otherwise I'd have included it. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Woody and Buzz, named after Ryan's dogs Are they in turn named after the Toy Story characters?
I presume so but I have no RS to back up that assertion. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm confused by the Build-up section. What are fixtures?
It's a sporting event, it's just an English word, see the second definition here. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If you link "The Championship Course" in the image caption, why not the names of the rowers/coaches?
Linked. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In the "Women" subsection, you use the past perfect tense (had represented) only for Smith. I would change that to plain old past tense like you did for the rest.
"had" gone. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What are the "reserves"? I would explain and expand that section a bit.
They are the B-teams if you like. Standard British English word, see this (reserve NOUN extra person). There's nothing more to add in RS about this event. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's all. ~ HAL333 16:38, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

HAL333 thanks for your comments, I've addressed and/or responded to each of them above! Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi HAL333, I was wondering if you felt in a position to either support or oppose this nomination? Obviously, neither is obligatory. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:44, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Happy to support. ~ HAL333 01:14, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review by Z1720

Version reviewed, spot checks not done

Ref 3: Wikilink to CBC News
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:03, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ref 10: Wikilink to Team GB
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:03, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ref 28: What makes Varsity, a student run newspaper, a high quality source?
Removed. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:03, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why is the "The Boat Race 2022" the only ref that uses sfn refs?
Only one with page numbers, I really don't see a problem with this. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:03, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Should be OK, some editors are concerned with differences in ref structure and sfn templates, but I'm not too bothered about it anymore. Since this is the only magazine that has page numbers (The Times has page numbers, but they are a newspaper) it should be OK. Z1720 (talk) 17:08, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And curiously, The Times has its own template, so this kind of "commonality across the piece" suggestion doesn't really stack up. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:11, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is "The Boat Race 2022" a magazine? I ask because the link to the source goes (I think) to a magazine subscription website. If it is, it should use Template:Cite magazine.
It was an e-publication so you can call it a magazine if you like, but I don't see why that makes any difference at all to our readers' experiences of this (now sub-only) reference. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:03, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Others who are more knowledgeable than me in source reviews have asked for the cite templates to match the media, which is why I bring it up here. The ambiguity of an e-publication probably won't make this a problem. Z1720 (talk) 17:08, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Those are my thoughts. Please ping me when the above are addressed. Z1720 (talk) 04:32, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Z1720 thanks for taking a look, responses etc above. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:03, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pass. My comments have been resolved. Z1720 (talk) 17:08, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Z1720 cheers, much appreciated. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:11, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Amakuru

"3 April 2022" - date should also be in the body and cited. (Indeed, if this were an OTD, I can imagine you might be complaining at WP:ERRORS about it!)
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:13, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Held annually" - again, the fact that it's annual seems to be in the lead but not in the body.
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:13, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"tidal stretch" - also not mentioned in the body, unless one counts the indirect and inconclusive evidence that it's called the "Tideway"
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:13, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"without spectators" - I hate to say it, but this also doesn't seem to be in the body!
It is. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:13, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"cancellation of the 2020 race as a response to the COVID-19 pandemic in the United Kingdom." - ditto
It is. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:13, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"4.2-mile (6.8 km) tidal stretch of the River Thames in south-west London" - same phrase is repeated twice in the opening paragraph
Disgusting. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:33, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"senior boats" - just wondering if it's obvious what this means? The opposite of senior is usually junior, but I assume in this case it's to distinguish it from the reserves?
It is, I checked the official website and they just use "men's/women's/men's reserves/women's reserves" so that's what I've gone with. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:33, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Lead says "third-fastest time" while body says "third fastest time"; probably could be either, but make it consistent
Fixed. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:33, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"The rivalry is a major point of honour between the two universities; the race is followed throughout the United Kingdom and broadcast worldwide" - this might flow better as a single sentence, with "and" instead of a semicolon?
Tried to avoid having a sentence with two "ands" in it. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:33, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"this time along the Tideway" - I found this line slightly confusing. So far in this section we know that the race "usually takes place on the 4.2-mile (6.8 km) Championship Course" and that in 2021 it was on the River Great Ouse. This is the first time that the "Tideway" has been mentioned, and also the first mention of where the 2022 race took place, and it might not be obvious (without following links anyway) that it refers to the same thing as the "Championship Course".
I've reworked this all a bit. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:02, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"the 2,000-metre (2,200 yd) course" - earlier you said the men's course was "4.2-mile (6.8 km)", so it seems like the units have been flipped and also the measures changed (miles -> yards and km -> metres). I'd suggest making it consistent.
No, the course at Henley is a standard rowing length of 2km. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:33, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"when the previous year's losing team challenges..." - "in which" might be better than "when"
Gone for "at which". The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:33, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"laid down the gauntlet" - MOS:IDIOM
Was trying to avoid repetition, but removed. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:33, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"President of Oxford University Women's Boat Club" - probably better with a lowercase "president" per the usual conventions at MOS:JOBTITLES
Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:33, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"FISU" - write this out in full on first use, per MOS:ACRO1STUSE
Added. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Alex Bowmer was OUBC's physical therapist" - is this really relevant? We don't name the Cambridge physio, and we also wouldn't normally give such detail for football matches etc...
Rmoeved. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Balance - the section detailing what happened in the trial races seems to have the same length and level of detail as the write-up of the race itself, particularly for the men's. This probably means the race summary is a little short, is there any more detail that can be added?
Not really. The Boat Race is notorious for being all about the build up and can descend quite quickly into a very straight forward uneventful race where almost literally nothing happens beside a parade to the finishing post. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"aggressive steering" - this might need a quote and attribution, it sounds like something that might be an opinion rather than a WP:WIKIVOICE indisputable fact...
It's in the citation for the race review and the only citation so reasonably obvious who it's attributed to. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Build-up section - the length of this stands in very stark contrast to the same section in The Boat Race 2019. I'd suggest giving more detail of what happened in the warm-up races. Especially given the detail we've gone into regarding the trial races.
I agree, but there is literally nothing in any reliable source about the trial races unless you can find anything I missed. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Oxford's crew included" - both the men's and women's crew sections start this way; maybe amend one to avoid repetition
Tweaked. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:03, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"half a length ahead by the Mile Post, despite their cox Jasper Parish receiving multiple warnings from the umpire for encroaching on Oxford's line" - is "despite" the right word here? Encroaching on the Oxford line doesn't seem like something that would impede their progress, so the lead is not "despite" that
When warned by the umpire, it's typical to change direction slightly to go off your desired course, so to maintain a lead in these conditions is quite excpetional. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"clear water lead" - firstly, clear-water should probably be hyphenated, but also is this an accepted and obvious term? I took it initially to mean there was clear water between the boats, but from the source it seems like the clear water was in front of Cambridge rather than behind them. Might be worth rephrasing.
"Their winning time of 18 minutes 22 seconds was the fastest on record for races held on the Tideway" - assume this record is for women, not overall
Added. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"traditionally favoured by crews" - a little bit vague this, it's not clear to me what this "tradition" entails. Is there some more empirical way to describe this?
Footnote added. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Craven Cottage" - seems like the only mention in the article, so link
Linked. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"In the face of" - MOS:IDIOM
Reworded. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"shot Hammersmith Bridge" - ditto
Not really, just common rowing parlance, like shooting in football. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Repetition of "By the time"
Removed. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Reserves - very short section, and again stands in contrast to the rather detailed description of the trials mentioned above!
Indeed, there's no reliable source out there detailing the reserves race at all that I can find. It's a shame, but perhaps a sign that this beloved fixture is losing its global touch. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Reaction should probably be its own section
Surprised that it wasn't to be honest. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"conceded that" - was it really a "concession"? Should probably use more straightforward language per MOS:SAID
Stated. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"OUBC's cox Jack Tottem" - second mention in the prose, so probably just "Tottem" and omit the title
Addressed. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's about it for now. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 09:47, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man ? Gog the Mild (talk) 20:55, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Gog the Mild I'm on it, but it might take a while. School holidays means my concentration isn't what it should be. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:41, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi The Rambling Man, any update? I appreciate that RL is what it is, but it has been more than three weeks since the last set of comments were posted. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:10, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm hoping to be in a softplay tomorrow afternoon which should give me a chance to address these. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 16:23, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Amakuru thanks for the comments, and apologies for the massive delay in addressing (or at least attempting to address) them. I'm sure you'll have further to add, and I promise I won't take quite as long to get back this time. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:02, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nice, thanks, I think I'm done. The prose looks like it fulfils the criteria in all other respects. Happy to Support. — Amakuru (talk) 15:02, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:56, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.