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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/White-breasted Nuthatch

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 21:55, 25 August 2008 [1].

White-breasted Nuthatch

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Nominator(s): jimfbleak (talk)


I'm nominating this article for featured article because I believe it now meets FAC standards. A fairly short one this time, and written in American, so feel free to correct any BE that may have crept in jimfbleak (talk) 05:53, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - sources look good, all links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you jimfbleak (talk) 15:26, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

:: in mature woodland.. - I was wondering if this was the most familiar adjective worldwide 'old-growth'? Note that I am not objecting but more ruminating.

::This is a stocky bird.. - I think 'It' goes better here than 'This'. but I see the problem in the next sentence too. In that case, try "The upperparts are pale blue-gray, and the face and underparts white." then, "It has a balck cap" and add some other attribute like eye colour or something.

::I suspect 'clinal' can be easily explained as 'gradual' without losing meaning. I was just reading about trynig to expalin terms without using bluelinks on some MOS somewhere.

::Did you link the Great Basin somewhere, if not then it should

It usually roosts singly.. - 'alone' or 'by itself'?

These are all just nitpicky really, so easy support once either addressed or explained why not a good idea. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:05, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

All done as per your suggestions. I'm not sure about "mature", but "old-growth" should be completely unambiguous. Great Basin was already linked on its first occurrence - you're reading up on MoS - that's worrying! (: thanks jimfbleak (talk) 05:31, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, jimfbleak (talk) 06:32, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments from someone who knows nothing about birds at all. :) —This is part of a comment by Juliancolton (of 19:58, 15 August 2008 (UTC)), which was interrupted by the following: [reply]
  • The male's mating song is a rapid nasal qui-qui-qui-qui-qui-qui-qui. What does "nasal" mean in this context?
It sounds like the bird is singing through its nose, if it had one! I really don't know how to deal with this, a gloss would be clumsy, and a link would refer to human sounds. I could take nasal out? Jim
What about something like this? –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 12:22, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fine with me. Jim
  • These groups cover: eastern North America; the Great Basin and central Mexico; and the Pacific coastal regions. Reads poorly. Change to "These groups cover eastern North America, the Great Basin and central Mexico, and the Pacific coastal regions."
Done - ironically, my original wording for this sentence. Jim
  • Are there any sources for the subspecies chart thingy?
Done, added link to top of first column Jim
  • In the east of its range, it is primarily a bird of mature open deciduous or mixed forest, including orchards, parks, suburban gardens and cemeteries, and is found mainly in the lowlands, although it reaches 1,675 m (5,500 ft) in Tennessee. I read this several times, and I still don't fully understand. Are you sure "a bird of mature..." is the correct wording?
done, replaced mature with old-growth, rephrased as ...cemeteries; in this region it is found mainly in the lowlands, although breeding occurs at 1,675 m (5,500 ft) altitude in Tennessee. Jim
Slightly better, but I still think "bird" is meant to be "habitat", or something similar? –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 12:22, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I hadn't registered what the problem was, now reads In the east of its range, its preferred habitat is old-growth open deciduous or mixed forest, including orchards, parks, suburban gardens and cemeteries; it is found mainly in the lowlands, although it breeds at 1,675 m (5,500 ft) altitude in Tennessee. Jim
  • The White-breasted Nuthatch is the only North American nuthatch usually found in deciduous trees; Red-breasted, Pygmy and Brown-headed Nuthatches all prefer pines. "All" is redundant.
Done. Jim
  • One bird landed on the RMS Queen Mary six hours sailing east of New York in October 1963. Is it really that noteworthy for a bird to land upon a ship?
Not in general, but this species is not migratory, and the other vagrancy listed is not that much outside its normal range, so it is very unusual so far from home. I'll take it out if you think it is trivial. Jim
As long as it's of note, I'm fine with having it stay. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 12:22, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The removal of dead trees from forests may cause some problems locally for this species because it requires cavity sites for nesting; declines have been noted in Washington, Florida, and more widely in the southeastern US west to Texas. "Some" is redundant. Also, "US" → "U.S." (I think).
Done - I knew trying to write in American would trip me up somewhere!
Good. There's one more farther up the article, as well. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 12:22, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed that, checked no more, Jim

Otherwise another great article from you bird folks. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 19:58, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reviewing and kind words, and let me know if you have any further thoughts on nasal or the ship. jimfbleak (talk) 05:42, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
nasal note is fine with me, redone the habitat bit as above, fixed the other US and checked there are no more. jimfbleak (talk) 14:46, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 14:49, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Julian jimfbleak (talk) 18:48, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments for now:

  • In the Intro a powerful bill and feet - sounds awkward; I prefer the phrase in the body of the article.
  • done - Jim
  • I have gotten used to specific epithet meaning the name of the species but will lay readers understand this?
  • , removed as unnecessary anyway - Jim
  • I'm no prude but I don't like the expression sexed, could we have distinguished from the males or something similar?
  • done - Jim
  • This:- Nasal refers to the fact that the mating song sounds as if the male sings through its nose, suffers from a little redundancy and I see there is an orphaned Note that says the same thing.
  • removed - Jim
  • Non-migratory is linked at its second occurrence, (but I question whether linking is needed at all).
  • link changed - i prefer to keep the link to the major article on bird migration - Jim
  • I noticed an archaic whilst.
  • fixed - Jim
  • This is a snake that needs chopping up: A study compared the White-breasted Nuthatch with the Red-breasted Nuthatch in terms of the willingness of males of the two species to feed incubating females on the nest when presented with models of a Sharp-shinned Hawk, which hunts adult nuthatches, or a House Wren, which destroys eggs. - It also needs a citation.
  • split into two sentences and trimmed a bit for easier reading - Jim

I enjoyed this article, which is engaging and, on the whole, beautifully written. Graham Colm Talk 16:12, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Graham, I'll deal with comments tomorrow. jimfbleak (talk) 18:48, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually pretty straightforward, all done jimfbleak (talk) 19:06, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support

  • Should you explain what upperparts and underparts are? I bird so I know what they are, but I'm not sure everyone would...
It's not been queried in more than a dozen bird FAs, so I'm inclined to leave as is - jim
  • Lead, second paragraph "Seeds form a substantial part of its winter diet, as do acorns and hickory nuts that were stored in the fall." I'm assuming that the bird stores the nuts? Might make this clear, the way its worded leaves it a bit unclear.
done -jim
  • Do we really need to wikilink hawks, owls, snakes, English, North America, Canada, New York, squirrels, insects, ants, Mexico?
delinked - Jim
  • Contact call is what?
clarified - jim
  • Okay, for a North American species that mainly in the US, is there a reason that the dimension are given in international units first? (If it's an MOS thing, that's fine. My occasions to use measurements with my bishops are pretty slim!)
It's a scientific article, so international units come first (chem and physics don't give imperial at all) - Jim
  • For the non birders, explain what a cap is?
glossed - Jim
  • I think you need a "the" in front of Red-breasted Nuthatch in the Description section, fifth paragraph. You have one in front of the other species.
done - Jim
  • explain geographically gradual (in Geographical variation subsection, first paragraph)
done - Jim
  • I think "In the eastern part of its range..." would be a better phrasing for the second sentence of the first paragraph of the Distribution and habitat section. Personal preference though, won't oppose if you don't change it.
done - Jim
  • Suggest moving some of the pictures to the left hand side to stagger them a bit.
Not feasible without breaching MOS for images or moving images to wrong sections - Jim
  • Suggest "The eggs are incubated by the female for 13 to 14 days prior to hatching..." for prose flow concerns. Again, though, this is a stylistic preference and won't oppose if you don't change. (Breeding subsection)
done - Jim
  • Last sentence of second paragraph of Breeding, "This nuthatch.." is a jarring start, perhaps "This species of nuthatch ... " or "The White-breasted nuthatch..." for better flow.
done - Jim
  • Give a couple of diurnal birds of prey examples so folks have some idea without having to click through to another article.
done Sharp-shinned and Cooper's - Jim
Real nice article. I'm comfortable supporting even with the nitpicky details listed above. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:13, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks, I'll explain the mos image issues that make moving images problematic in more detail if needed. jimfbleak (talk) 17:08, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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