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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Wildest Dreams (Taylor Swift song)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 29 February 2024 [1].

Wildest Dreams (Taylor Swift song)

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Nominator(s): Ippantekina (talk) 08:29, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a song by Taylor Swift. Except that the music video was lambasted for featuring an all-white cast in Africa, the song is pretty good imo. I believe this article satisfies FA criteria and hope to bring the bronze star to it. Ippantekina (talk) 08:29, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image and media review:

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I hope this review is helpful. Apologies in advance as I will not have the time to do a full review of either the prose or the sources, but I still wanted to help out where I could. There are only two points that needed to be addressed (i.e. the WP:FUR issue with the audio sample and the lack of a source link with the Taylor's version cover). Once those points are handled, I will be more than happy to pass this part of the review. Best of luck with this FAC! Aoba47 (talk) 00:04, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Aoba47, many thanks for the media review. I have updated the FUR for the audio and the source for the Taylor's Version cover, so it should be good now imo. Also while I'm at it, would you mind leaving some comments at my current FTC for 1989? It received a few contrary opinions that I deem quite unfair despite my explanations... would be great if I can hear from an experienced editor like you. Cheers, Ippantekina (talk) 02:36, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for addressing everything. This passes my image and media review. Of course, please let me know if anything additional is added to the article during the course of the review. I will look at the FTC momentarily. Aoba47 (talk) 02:51, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

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  • "it marked the third time he directed a music video for a 1989 single after "Blank Space" and "Bad Blood"" → not supported in Dyer
  • "As the romance ends, the pair is seen shooting in front of a savanna backdrop in a California studio" → this is supported on Dyer page 308 not 307
  • "wild animal conservation efforts through the African Parks Foundation of America" → close to the source text "animal conservation efforts through the African Parks Foundation of America"
  • "who shoot a film in 1950s Africa" → "1950s" is supported on Dyer page 307 not 308
  • "The pair gets involved romantically off-screen, as the video features shots of wildlife such as giraffes, zebras, and lions in a broad savanna" → this is on 308 not 307

(suggest reviewing the Dyer citations. I didn't find anything wrong with Keim or McNutt)

  • associated press link is dead
  • mtv news ref is missing author
  • suggest finding a higher-quality source to replace the Good Morning America ref if possible
  • zollo ref should be marked via Medium or Cuepoint

Heartfox (talk) 04:09, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the source review, I have addressed them accordingly. I found some other articles from Insider or Buzzfeed so I assume Good Morning America is the best we can go for now. Ippantekina (talk) 04:42, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Heartfox: nudge. Ippantekina (talk) 07:08, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the delay, this passes the source review. If you have time, my current FAC would benefit from your comments, even just a media review! Best, Heartfox (talk) 05:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vami

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Will review. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 22:54, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for the delay. I am about to start my reading :) –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 10:34, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Prose
  • A general note, many names come out of the woodwork with little qualifier as to who they are or what they do.
  • Swift included "Wildest Dreams" in the set lists for two of her world tours: the 1989 World Tour (2015) and the Eras Tour (2023–2024). Why say it was in the set lists for two tours rather than, and especially when, you list the tours anyway?
    I believe what the late Vami was trying to say it's redundant to say "two of her world tours" when you name these tours anyway. So to simplify, something like: wift included "Wildest Dreams" in the set lists for her 1989 World Tour (2015) and the Eras Tour (2023–2024). FrB.TG (talk) 20:11, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Ah, I did so to introduce to readers unfamiliar with Swift that those two tours are hers. I think that's not redundant :) Ippantekina (talk) 03:40, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Swift and Max Martin served as executive producers of 1989. Why "of" and not "for"?
  • In the chorus, the melody is accentuated by live strings with what Bylund described as "Coldplay-type rhythm chords". I do not understand this sentence. Are the live strings themselves the Coldplay-type rhythm chords?
  • The first verse sees her observing how the lover makes her feel the lust The lust?
  • and Slate's Forrest Wickman thought that Swift's character was "sort of a [...] femme fatale". Looks like an edit scar.
  • Robert Leedham of Drowned in Sound wrote that the lyrics portrayed her arrogance and confidence to move on to better things This should be a quotation.
  • I feel that there is not a need to repeat that something took place in 2015 in #Release and commercial performance after On August 5, 2015, Swift shared on Twitter.
  • and the European countries Why highlight this? Slovakia and Scotland are mentioned above without this qualifier.
  • that demonstrated Swift's new ways of expressing in her music I feel that "herself" should be added after "expressing". Its absence kind of throws off the sentence for me.
  • Swift's premise for the video was a love story between two actors in an isolated place within Africa and, without social media, they can talk only to each other because there is no other means of communication, resulting in an illicit love affair. This reads somewhat strangely and can be condensed.
  • #Development and synopsis twice uses the word "illicit". As word of God from Swift, the first use is fine; that's her concept for the video. There isn't a need to use it a second time, though. The taboo nature is understood, and the article can avoid repeating itself.
  • She held a private concert for 100 fans in Hamilton Island, Australia, as part of Nova's "Red Room" series; she sang "Wildest Dreams" on an acoustic guitar. This should be reordered; it feels like it was torn from the article on Swift herself, as the song's mention here feels like an afterthought. "Oh yeah, she sang Wildest Dreams."
  • Kornharber found the cover "undeniably lovely", Who?
  • the re-recorded version of 1989, Redundant.
  • remains faithful to the original production. There is a more encyclopedic way to say this. "remains faithful" unnecessarily expresses an opinion in Wikipedia's voice.
  • Murray and Siroky praised Swift's vocals as improved. As having improved?
  • In The Guardian, Rachel Aroesti She gets introduced all the way down here?

Just as promised!! –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 11:48, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Replied above. Thanks much for the cmts! Ippantekina (talk) 02:43, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by voorts

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Review to come. voorts (talk/contributions) 16:52, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some comments:

  • I've done a copy edit for some minor grammar things and concision that I don't believe are objectionable, instead of listing everything out here. If you take issue with any of them, I'm happy to discuss.
  • Thanks much!
  • Change "The authors in the book Mistaking Africa" to "In their book Mistaking Africa, the [profession] author 1 and author 2, ..."
  • Please clarify "while the latter dismissed the allegations that Swift had political implications". I think there's a missing possessive of Swift's. Also, that whole sentence is very long and should be split up, and you use "argued" twice.
  • I think the intro paragraph of Taylor's version needs reworking/fleshing out. Here's my take on what happened (based on RSes but not cited; see the cites in the masters dispute article): Swift had tried to purchase the masters for years, but was told she'd need to sign a contract for six more albums, which she found outrageous. Then, Braun bought the company for $300M, and Swift called him a bully. Swift then decided to re-record her back catalog, "Because it’ll feel like regaining a freedom and taking back what’s mine." [2]. Upon re-recording, she didn't gain control over licensing or "substitute" the original masters; rather, she eliminated demand for licensing of the old masters.

Great work! voorts (talk/contributions) 23:46, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I've addressed your comments above. Let me know if you have further concerns :) Ippantekina (talk) 06:43, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you split up the sentence startin "Kornhaber and Tshepo Mokoena" further? voorts (talk/contributions) 21:39, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Eh.. do you have suggestions? Ippantekina (talk) 07:01, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Change the first semicolon to a period. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:03, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's neat. done. Ippantekina (talk) 03:00, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for addressing my feedback. Great work. Support. voorts (talk/contributions) 03:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Epicgenius

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I will take a look at this one as well. Just a few quick notes before I do a more in-depth review.

Background and production:

  • Para 1: I noticed that the Out of the Woods article says that "Taylor Swift had been known as a country singer-songwriter until her fourth studio album Red". This article says "Taylor Swift had identified as a country musician until her fourth studio album, Red". Perhaps the wording should be standardized, unless there's a reason for mentioning that she "identified as a country musician" in this article while saying she "had been known as a country singer-songwriter" in "Out of the Woods".
    • I prefer the active voice to the passive and "had been known" is rather vague language. I don't think it should be "standardized" but I could make changes to the "Out of the Woods" article.. Ippantekina (talk) 03:34, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • I was mentioning standardization because there's a bit of a difference between "had identified" and "had been known". Like you said, one is active voice and one is passive voice, but identifying as something is not the same as being known for something. To be clear though, standardization of the text is only a suggestion, and I won't hold up my review of this otherwise great article over such a minor matter. Epicgenius (talk) 04:38, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        • I changed it in the "Out of the Woods" article too. (It's true that she both identified as a country musician and was known so, though the wording might conjecture different meanings..) Ippantekina (talk) 07:09, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Para 2: "The former played the piano, and the latter played the electric guitar and percussion" - Just so we're 100% clear, Martin was the one who played the piano, while Shellback played the electric guitar and percussion?
    • Yep.
  • Para 2: "Mattias Bylund joined the production of "Wildest Dreams" - Out of interest, in which capacity?
    • It is elaborated in the following sentence: "Bylund played and arranged the strings, and he recorded and edited his performance at his home studio in Tuve, Sweden".

More later. – Epicgenius (talk) 04:02, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I forgot about this. I'll wait for FrB.TG to finish reviewing to avoid stepping on any toes. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:46, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Music and lyrics:
  • Para 1: "retained some mutual elements with her previous country songs" - This wording feels strange to me for some reason. Maybe you meant the composition retained some mutual elements from her previous country songs?
  • Para 3: "... portrayed the man as her victim.[20] and Slate's Forrest Wickman thought that Swift's character was "sort of a [...] femme fatale".[25]" - Was the period after "as her victim" supposed to be a comma?
  • Para 3: "contrasting with the victim mentality on her past songs" - Nothing wrong here per se, but to clarify, this is saying that Swift's previous songs portray her as the victim?
Release and commercial performance:
  • Para 1: " On August 5, 2015, Swift shared on Twitter that "Wildest Dreams" would be the fifth single from 1989" - I'm not a music editor, so maybe I'm missing something, but were the singles released separately from 1989 itself? Or am I reading this wrong, and "Wildest Dreams" was the fifth single from 1989 to rank in the top 10 of the Billboard Hot 100?
  • Para 1: On a related note, the end of this paragraph mentions the song's release to Italian radio. Do we know why its release to Italian radio was delayed? (And if we don't, why is Italian radio specifically mentioned here?)
  • Para 2: "1989 became the album with the most Adult Pop Songs number ones, tying with Katy Perry's Teenage Dream (2010)" - If they're tied, it's technically not 100% accurate that "1989 became the album with the most Adult Pop Songs number ones", as that wording implies that no other album holds that distinction (I know, this is a nitpick). I'd suggest rewording this slightly to something like "1989 became tied with Katy Perry's Teenage Dream (2010) as the album with the most Adult Pop Songs number ones".
Critical reception
  • No issues from me here. (I saw that paragraph 3 didn't organize the retrospective reviews chronologically, but then I realized the retrospective reviews were categorized by theme instead.)
More later. – Epicgenius (talk) 15:41, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am going to try to get through the rest of this today. So sorry for the delay.
Development and synopsis:
  • Para 1: "Inspired by The Secret Conversations (2013), a memoir of the actress Ava Gardner,[72][73] Swift's premise for the video" - As this is a dangling modifier (i.e. the sentence is saying the premise was inspired), I just want to confirm that you did indeed mean that.
  • Para 1: "because they can only interact with each other" - Should this be "because they could"?
Release and reception:
  • Para 1: "Billboard's Natalie Weiner deemed Elizabeth Taylor an influence on Swift's fashion in the video." - This seems less like reception and more like a factual statement about the development (the source says "Taylor [Swift] was clad in what seems to be Elizabeth Taylor-inspired garb"). Unless this was a minority viewpoint, I'm sincerely not sure whether this should remain in the release and reception section, or be moved elsewhere.
  • Para 2: "she regarded it as "antiquated" "- To be clear, this refers to the depiction being antiquated, not the video being antiquated?
  • Para 3: "Lion King generation" - I'm not sure what this means. I assume this means a generation that grew up watching The Lion King, unless there's something else I missed. (In any case, a quote from the same writer, which expresses his concerns in more detail, is mentioned slightly further down, so maybe this can be clarified or removed.)
Live performances:
  • Paras 1, 3: "On the 1989 World Tour (2015)" and "On the Eras Tour (2023–2024)" - Should this be "During the ... tour"? (Not 100% sure about this, though; maybe tours are treated differently when one is talking about a singer "on a tour".)
Ryan Adams cover:
  • Para 1: "Adams said that Swift's 1989 helped him cope with emotional hardships and he wanted to sing the songs from his perspective" - I'd add "that" after "helped him cope with emotional hardships and".
  • Para 1: "He switches and adjusts pronouns in some places; for example, "Standing in a nice dress" becomes "Standing in your nice dress"" - I'm completely nitpicking now, but "a" isn't generally a pronoun; it's an indefinite article.
  • Para 2: "In The Guardian, Michael Cragg said that there were no substantial additions in Adams's cover" - Optional, but was that praise or a lamentation?
Credits and personnel / Charts / Certifications / Release history:
  • No issues
"Wildest Dreams (Taylor's Version)":
  • Para 2: "The re-recording of "Wildest Dreams" is "Wildest Dreams (Taylor's Version)"". - Should this be "The re-recording of "Wildest Dreams" is named "Wildest Dreams (Taylor's Version)""?
  • Para 2: "The release followed viral success" - Should this be "the viral success"?
Production and reception:
  • Para 1: "Robin Murray of Clash said that it contained "subtle stylist[ic] shifts"[176] and Stereogum's Tom Breihan found it more "muted"." - Though WP:CINS is an essay, I would still recommend a comma after "subtle stylist[ic] shifts", per WP:CINS.
  • Para 2: "Within less than four hours" - This should be "within four hours" or "in less than four hours". "Within less than four hours" is redundant in this context ("within four hours" means "in four hours or less" here).
That's all from me; very nice work. – Epicgenius (talk) 15:14, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, I forgot to ping Ippantekina in my last edit. – Epicgenius (talk) 17:32, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Should be all done now! Epicgenius Ippantekina (talk) 03:07, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Epicgenius (talk) 16:25, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by FrB.TG

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I overplayed the heck out of this song back in 2015. I'll leave comments soon. FrB.TG (talk) 15:44, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • "The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) certified the track four-times platinum." The initialism isn't used elsewhere in the lead so I would just remove it.
  • "Taylor Swift had identified as a country musician until her fourth studio album, Red" - I'm not sure "identified" is the right choice of word as it suggests a personal or self-perceived affiliation with a particular genre, implying a deliberate choice or self-definition. However, when it comes to artistic categorization like being a country musician, it might be more accurate to describe her as being recognized or known as a country musician.
  • "Inspired by 1980s synth-pop, she named the album 1989" - who/what was inspired? Swift or 1989? I suppose neither is wrong (both a person and an album can be inspired) but I think you mean the album and the sentence structure suggests that Swift was inspired. Also, I'm not sure how naming an album after your birth year might be considered an "artistic reinvention". I suppose I could see it as sort of a "rebirth" but it's not very clear to me. Does the source/Swift elaborate on this?
  • "On the album's standard edition, Martin and his frequent collaborator Shellback produced 7 out of 13 songs" - Martin produced two additional songs independently of Shellback, so there's no need to solely count the collaborations they did together just because "Wildest Dreams" was among them. It suffices to say that the song was produced by both of them, without specifying the number of collaborations on the album, which may not be of interest to the reader of this article.
  • "The former played the piano, and the latter played the electric guitar and percussion" - replace "the former" and "the latter" with their actual names. It's much simpler and the reader doesn't have to go back one sentence to figure who is who.
  • "Mattias Bylund joined the production of "Wildest Dreams" after Martin played the track to him. Bylund played and arranged the strings, and he recorded and edited his performance at his home studio in Tuve, Sweden." Instead of making the reader have to read the next sentence to figure out Bylund's exact role, I would suggest directly mentioning it instead of "joined the production". Something along the lines of Mattias Bylund played and arranged the strings after Martin played "Wildest Dreams" to him; Bylund recorded and edited his performance at his home studio in Tuve, Sweden. should do.
  • "In the lyrics, Swift's character pleads with a lover to remember her after their relationship ends, although she is still in love with him." The sentence implies that they haven't broken up yet so her still being in love with him during their relationship isn't a contradiction.
  • "Slate's Forrest Wickman thought that Swift's character was a femme fatale" - this is an interesting take as nothing so far has any indication of a femme fatale. Does the source specify how?
  • "The Guardian's Alexis Petridis felt that the song abandoned Swift's previous "persona of the pathetic female appendage snivelling over her bad-boy boyfriend" and instead portrayed the man as her victim" - I think this sentence establishes what I felt was missing in my previous point so I would write this before the opinion about femme fatale bit.

Down to the end of Music and lyrics section. Moe to come. FrB.TG (talk) 19:32, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Checking the femme fatale source myself, it says she is "a sort of ... femme fatale" which is different from "Swift's character was a femme fatale" as the article says.
  • "It debuted at number 76 on the US Billboard Hot 100 in November 2014." There should be an WP:NBSP between "November" and "2014". Check for other similar instances e.g. before beginning an ellipsis. (Another example: "...had sold two million digital copies in the United States by November 2017.")
  • "and Nate Jones from Vulture considered it one of Swift's 10 best songs and specifically lauded the "invigorating double-time bridge".[26]" Perhaps wikilink bridge?
  • "Kahn took inspiration from many classical Hollywood films such as The African Queen (1951), Out of Africa (1985), and The English Patient (1996)." I don't think The English Patient falls within the category of a classical Hollywood film.
  • In terms of chronology, I think you're better off switching the place of the second and the third paragraph in live performances section. I understand the rationale that you're mentioning all tours first but I don't think it would disrupt the flow if you just mentioned everything chronologically.
  • "Prior to the album's release" - "before" (one word fewer ;)) FrB.TG (talk) 10:58, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Harry

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Sorry I'm late to the party. Going through now. I've been meaning to get to this; it's one of my favourite Swift songs! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:53, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Being very pedantic here but I think including the exact date of the Taylor's Version release is recentism. I think the month or even just the year would be suffice.
  • Red incorporates eclectic pop and rock styles Is the present tense prescribed by some obscure MoS subsection? It's jarring to me personally in the middle of a paragraph that's written in the past tense but it doesn't even agree with the end of the same sentence: which led to critics questioning her country-music identity
  • while touring on the Red Tour is a bit tautological (as in Department of Redundancy Department)
  • She was inspired by 1980s synth-pop to create her first "official pop album" and named it 1989 "it" could be taken as meaning 80s synthpop, not the album.
  • Anything more about 1989 being a reinvention/new sound? It was quite a departure from her earlier eras and I'd have thought there would be a sentence or two more we could add here without getting too far from the topic of this one song.
  • Shellback played the electric guitar and percussion Can we be any more specific than "percussion"? That could cover anything from a tambourine to a peel of bells.
  • Likewise "strings" in the following sentence; I assume it's a violin but I'm no music expert.
  • These are adapted from the album's booklet and that's all I get.. strings in this case are most likely synthesized strings generated by the Mellotron and not live strings, so it doesn't matter if it's violin or cello I suppose. Ippantekina (talk) 04:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do we need to know the locations of the studios? To me they feel a little distracting but YMMV.
  • In the lyrics, Swift's character pleads with a lover to remember her Is "pleads" the right verb? The song is about knowing a relationship is doomed to fail even before it takes off. I'd expect "pleading" in a song about a relationship that ended unexpectedly badly (like "All Too Well" or eve "All You Had to Do Was Stay" from the same album) but here she's lamenting an outcome she fully saw coming.

Sorry, I got distracted and now it's now 23:30. I'll pick this back up in the morning! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:34, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Retrospectively, Rob Sheffield of Rolling Stone wrote A year would be helpful here. The song is 10 years old now but we should be writing or audiences who might be reading this in another 10 or even later. And of course there might be renewed interest in it with future events and anniversaries so there may come a a time when today's "retrospective" looks contemporary.
  • I'm not sure the music video controversy needs a subheading; I generally discourage "controversy" sections anyway per WP:UNDUE. On which note, are you happy that two paragraphs in ~3.5k words is proportional to how the source material covers it? Yes is an acceptable answer, I'm just checking you've considered it.
  • Is the classical cover for Bridgerton worth mentioning? (Not my kind of thing but it was the wife's favourite show for a while!)

That's me done. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:50, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hithanks so much for reviewing the article! As written in my userpage I'm on wikibreak till 16 Feb and I'm slowly resuming my editing. I'm committed to resolving all issues by this Sunday; if by then you don't hear any response from me, do ping me! Regards, Ippantekina (talk) 11:00, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm in no rush. I saw you were on a wikibreak so I put the article and the FAC on my watchlist. :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 11:59, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm also not in any hurry. I should be finished by the end of the week. Enjoy your wikibreak. – Epicgenius (talk) 00:49, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@HJ Mitchell: @Vami IV: @Epicgenius: Thanks for your patience. I have addressed all of your comments above. Do let me know if you have further opinions :) Ippantekina (talk) 04:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just wanted to let you know that Vami has sadly passed away recently so don’t be surprised when you don’t see a response from him. FrB.TG (talk) 22:26, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh my... my deepest condolences :( Ippantekina (talk) 03:20, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Harry, Did you want to revisit? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:20, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ian Rose: Thanks for pinging Harry. In the meantime can I nominate another article for FA? Ippantekina (talk) 07:45, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, go ahead. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:38, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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