Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/X Window core protocol

X Window core protocol

Self-nom. This is an overview of the base protocol used in the X Window System. It's a bit technical, but I think is now complete and relatively clear (I will not submit it for the main page). It's already listed as WP:GOOD. This article is only about the base protocol: other technicalities of X11 are in X Window System protocols and architecture (which is also in WP:GOOD). X Window System is already featured. - Liberatore(T) 11:56, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment- The lead is slightly too long; according to WP:LEAD it should be condensed to 3 paragraphs. AndyZ 01:07, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. I have shortened the lead by removing some sentences and reformulating others. It's now of three paragraphs. The middle one may be slightly too long. It could be shortened by removing the definition of request/replies/events/errors, but that would probably make the lead too short. - Liberatore(T) 14:58, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support. First-rate technical article. Redquark 15:12, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support. A solid effort! —Eternal Equinox | talk 23:45, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support I was originally going to just strike my objection after the changes, but changed my mind. I think the article is a good example of a current "best", for a daughter article on a very specific, technical topic. It gives the general reader an understandable explanation with a real world context, and I think it would also serve anyone interested in programming, interface design, whatever, from novice to expert, a good overview. It does get into detail, but if you're actually interested, it doesn't lose you. In maybe a more typical encyclopedia architecutre, articles this specific might be limited to a word count and so not get into this amount of breakdown, but in WP, where all kinds of things are being tried, for this length, format and subject area, it's one approach to more detailed technical stuff that seems to work. (I am trusting as a non-expert it is comprehensive for the field. Also, it is a single author article, that's been around since end of Dec-2005. Dunno if it was split off or written there, but I'm assuming, because of numerous links to other X articles and related, which have numerous authors, it has been checked out.) I think that's it. Supporting takes effort, too... Object I have a problem with the writing quality and overall presentation of a technical topic. First, the lead is unclear. Reading it as any other article, it did not describe what X Window was about (I went to X Window System to find out it's "a windowing system for bitmap displays"), and the descriptions were rather head-spinning ("The server controls...", "The client interacts...", "A client sends...", "The server sends...",...) and not summary. The main text also reads more like a quick primer on the topic than a description, with too many bulleted and numbered lists, and detailed explanations. I haven't compared this with other similar articles, but on its own, I found the information interesting, but the presentation not. However it's approached, there are better, more summary and readable ways to present all of this material... (I can provide more examples if required.) --Tsavage 22:13, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have rewritten the first two paragraphs of the lead (I can remove the definition of requests/replies/events/errors, if needed) and removed some lists and unnecessary details from the article [1], but your main point seems unfixable to me. The network protocol (i.e., the rules for sending packets over the wire) is almost trivial: there are just four kinds of packets, and the only constraint is that requests may generate replies, events, or errors. I mean, there are no complicated interaction between packets. The main part of the article is a sequence of sections, each one detailing the various "aspects" of the protocol. Again, every section is mostly a sequence of facts about an aspect of the protocol. I do not see how better can be done with the same material. Could you provide an example of a convertion from a "primer" into a "description"? - Liberatore(T) 15:03, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the helpful reply. I thought about it. I guess the core question was, is it "enough" to have an X Window System article, with a section on the X protocol, is a separate protocol article needed, or is it just gonna be technical stuff and jargon. But I guess, yes, this being WP, describing the protocol in detail is useful. So then, a "general reader" reader should be able to put it into a familiar context off the top, and be able to read the whole artilce. I think it actually does that pretty well. The first-paragraph intros to the sections are great, and the edits made things more readable. I'd add to the lead that X is for constructing GUIs ("the standard toolkit and protocol to build graphical user interfaces on Unix, Unix-like operating systems, and OpenVMS"), that I think gives it an even broader context, more people recognize GUI, Unix.... I think only Atoms needs a clearer intro. I'll read again tomorrow, and strike my object, perhaps support. Thanks! --Tsavage 02:58, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your suggestions. I have added GUIs and Unix to the lead to place the article more in context. I have also added an initial paragraph to Atoms: you are correct in pointing out that most readers would be left wondering why atoms exist in the first place. Let me know if you have any other specific comments. - Liberatore(T) 16:37, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'd also add dates. The article may or may not need a history section (it's in the main article, but, to be self-contained), but I think in this subarticle territory, just adding to the lead should be OK, and something like, from the X article: "X originated at MIT in 1984. The current protocol version, X11, appeared in September 1987 and possibly the developers' names as well. One other double point that's not clear: a) that this is linked only in See also in the X article, and b) I'm not sure if there's unnecessary overlap with X Window System protocols and architecture. But this article seems to stand on its own, so that's probably another issue... --Tsavage 21:56, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]