Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Olympic Games host cities/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by The Rambling Man 11:15, 27 June 2009 [1].

List of Olympic Games host cities

Nominator(s): Geraldk (talk) 11:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe this article now meets the criteria. It was nominated once before, by Chris, who has continued to do exceptional work on it and deserves co-credit for the nomination. The previous nomination was withdrawn due to concerns about whether it was a content fork and simply replicated material from the main Olympic Games article. That article has now reached FA, is stable, and while it has some of the same information, the list on this page is much more detailed. This list also includes a couple of supplementary summary tables and now has an expanded lead. Geraldk (talk) 11:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am happy to co-nom with Geraldk. But the concerns of content forking might still be here, so not sure if this will fly.—Chris! _ct 17:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's a good list, but it's still too redundant to Olympic Games#Host nations and cities, Summer Olympic Games#List of modern Summer Olympic Games, and Winter Olympic Games#List of Winter Olympic Games. However, I don't really see it being merged so I'll give it a review. Reywas92 ^Talk 02:08, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

~~Comment~~ -- I don't know, but I'm on the edge of saying this is content forking. From the examples that Reywas92 pulled out, its very similar and the only additional info I see in this list is the summaries by each nation, etc. I think I will wait for others to address whether this is content forking because IMO it could possibly be. Until then, I won't fully review.--Tru co ₅₀₃ 01:23, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Oppose -- Per 3b, although if Chris' suggestion is taken it can bypass 3b, but like stated, it will take a lot of work.--Tru co ₅₀₃ 14:58, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Needs to handle Olympiads where multiple cities were awarded the games. It already does this for 1904 (Was LA, changed to St. Louis), but it's happened several other times: 1940 Winter, 1940 Summer, an 1976 Winter are the ones I know of. Either include all of these, or remove the 1904 entry; I find these interesting so IMO they should be included. --Golbez (talk) 08:02, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to have limited computer access until Monday evening, so I'll address this as soon as I have a chance. Geraldk (talk) 13:23, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

During the previous FLC, User:Andrwsc has suggested restructuring the list to give a summary of the host city and the bid (merging both Bids for Olympic Games and Bids for Olympic Games (ballots) into this). That can possibly bypass the 3b criteria problem, but that would take a lot of work. Not sure if anyone is interested in doing that.—Chris! _ct 00:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose – I would say that this fails 3b, since similar lists are included in the three main Olympics articles. The continent column is the only one from the primary table not in those articles. Giants2008 (17-14) 21:38, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wow - OK, surprised by both of those oppositions. The two additional tables that do not exist in any of the main articles that are referenced aren't significantly different enough? My concern about Andrwsc's suggestion, and the reason I did not implement it, is that the bids include a huge amount of information. Adding five additional columns would make the list incredibly unwieldy. The alternative, turning the list into an episode-style summary list, would eliminate the sortability. Geraldk (talk) 23:29, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Andrwsc's suggestion means to abandon the table and instead give a brief summary of each host city under a section header, kind of like this FL. That is a lot of prose and the resulting article will closely resemble a FA.

Oppose per my previous comments in the last FLC review. I think this page ought to be more than three sortable tables. The tables are summary information that is best left to the main articles, per summary-style. This page should be the "for further information" link target from those pages, so it should have more information about the cities. Along the same lines, I'm not suggesting a merge of the bid information into here; those bid articles are "for further information" details linked from here. We should take advantage of the opportunity to create city-centric content (instead of a Games-centric list) that is more than a simple reorganization of material already listed in other articles. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:29, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid I still don't understand. What kind of information would you expect to have under the list of Olympic host cities? Geraldk (talk) 00:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to see more than just data presented in tabular format. I think much can be accomplished with a few sentences of prose text per item within definition list format. The result should be a worthy complement to other articles we have, and not just a re-format of the same information available elsewhere. This is off the top of my head, but hopefully provides some inspiration or further discussion:

===Summer Olympic Games host cities===

Athens (1896, 2004): Athens, Greece was the host city for the inaugural edition of the modern Olympic Games, held from April 6–15, 1896.(ref) International Olympic Committee founder Baron de Coubertin chose Athens as the location for the re-birth of the Games in homage to the Ancient Olympic Games that originated in Greece.(ref) Athens attempted to host the Centennial Games in 1996, but lost to Atlanta on the final ballot amid concerns that the city would not be able to adequately support the Games.(ref) Athens was subsequently successful in winning the bid for the 2004 Summer Olympics, which it hosted from August 13–29. At those Games, some events were also hosted in several cities and towns outside Athens: ancient Olympia for the shot put event, Marathon for the start of the Marathon race, and Heraklion, Patra, Thessaloniki, and Volos for some football matches.(ref)
Paris (1900, 1924): Paris, France hosted the second modern Games in 1900. The city was unanimously awarded the Games at the same meeting in 1894 in which it was decided that the 1896 Games should be awarded to Athens.(ref) All events were held in the city except for sailing events held in Meulan and Le Havre.(ref) Paris hosted the Games for a second time (becoming the first city to do so) in 1924. Paris has since made three attempts to host the Games for a third time, losing to Barcelona on the final ballot for the 1992 Summer Olympics,(ref) to Beijing in 2008,(ref) and to London for 2012.(ref)
etc.

===Winter Olympic Games host cities===

Chamonix (1924)

etc.

etc.

I suppose I'm essentially calling for a re-write of the entire article, but I feel this is the best way to create a featured-content worthy alternative to yet another summary table which borders on content-forking. Don't get me wrong—I think your table is good—but I think the summary tables belong in the main articles. This page should elaborate on the details, and by "city-centric" I mean that we ought to include information about bid attempts, venues outside the main host city, and perhaps some information on the effects of the Games on some of these cities. This kind of format also lends itself well to appropriate photos on the right side of the page (venues, etc.), whereas the current table is only illustrated with flag icons. I hope this helps, and I welcome additional discussion. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I see now. That's a great idea. You're right that it will take some significant rewriting, but I think it won't hurt to keep some of the tables in after the longer prose descriptions because I think they'll still be useful for some people who end up on the table. Will try to work on this and bring it back to FLC (for a third time). Geraldk (talk) 19:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per above comments about 3b. – (iMatthew • talk) at 02:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK, again, while everyone is piling on the fly-by opposition, would really appreciate input into what information people expect to see in a modified table that included more 'city information'. What exactly would this new 'city-centric' content look like? Geraldk (talk) 11:25, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Withdraw per above comments suggesting a major rewrite. Geraldk (talk) 19:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawn per nominator's request. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:15, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.