Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Stargate SG-1 episodes (Archive 1)

List of Stargate SG-1 episodes

Below is discussion from a previous FL drive. See further below for the current FL drive.

This article is fully complete. It lists every episode ever showed, and even some not aired yet. For every aired episode there is a good picture and a nice summary. Tobyk777 21:10, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• Oppose. No references. Please also explain why we are ok with the copyright position of the pictures, jguk 21:36, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• images are free under fair use conventions used by news agencies in general. Episodes themselves are primary source references, no secondary source references are used, although there are plenty.Lotusduck 01:03, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
• Object. Impressive collection of non-free images there. Unfortunately, with the possible exception of Image:Stargatesg1season3dvd.jpg, they're all for decorative purposes only. This isn't allowed under Wikipedia:Fair use#Policy. --Carnildo 09:57, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
• Comment 3 things-
  • How can you haave refrences to a list of episodes of a TV show. It's not like you get it from a source. Those are just the episodes.
  • Images can be decorative, but in this case are not purely so. An image can remind a reader of an espisode.
  • If an image is a screen shot from a movie or TV show, how can they not be copyrighted. So acording to this argument we should delete all photos from TV shows. Wouldn't that be good. Tobyk777 01:38, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

If there are no references, it shouldn't be on WP - see Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research. Seriously, though, are there really no websites and books that give this information? How did you compile it? jguk 10:54, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

• Not yet. The objections that the images are bad/overdecorative/copyrighted is ridiculous, see above. Likewise with references - where can you possibly reference? Those just ARE the episodes! However the page isn't yet quite done, so I say wait before it's featured.--Alfakim-- talk 21:11, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
  • If there really are no references for the list then it shouldn't be on wikipedia. Is there really no website or book or magazine on this? jguk 11:19, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
    • There's a lot of wikipedia without references. dont be silly. and anyway, there are thousands of sites with episode lists, and currently wikipedia is one of them (the best, might i add). the info didnt come from any one of those sites though, it came from people who watch the show! ie the show itself - primary evidence huh? if you're really desperate for a reference, we could use TV.com as i'm sure people have been there once or twice to fill in missing details.--Alfakim-- talk 16:59, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

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Current FL drive:

• Explaining things:
  • Copyright if you click on any of the images, they are considered fair use of copyrighted images. Books and newspapers generally take low resolution screen captures to reffer to shows being reviewed and do not require special perimssions to do so.
  • References The episodes themselves are primary sources. Other sources would be required to give the significance of those episodes in other contexts, but for the purposes of this list there are sufficient references. But there are plenty of references, articles that review episodes and so fourth that could substantiate any claims of confusion on the primary source (the goings on of an episode). Furthermore, I think this list is very complete. The ease of consensus between people who watch the show is the only reason why no magazine reviews or MGM published fan books have needed to be referenced.
• That said, I think I've proven that this is a legitimate list, if a little unlike paper encyclopedias, ones that don't have the word stargate in the title anyway. I don't think that it isn't done, I think it's done. TV lists are controversial on wikipedia, and the amount of effort put into making such a clean and complete list like this suggests that tv lists are working their way into a wikipedia standard. Lotusduck 01:03, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
  • The images may be "fair use" under the law. Thing is, it's not copyright law we're concerned with here. It's the subset of "fair use" that's contained in Wikipedia:Fair use that matters. And that says decorative images are not allowed. --Carnildo 06:59, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
• If the images describe the things being listed on a list and are accompanied by text, aren't they useful? They help identify episodes. This isn't some samantha carter image gallery, obviously, so what's y'alls definition of decorative? Lotusduck 07:04, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
  • One of the definitions I use is that an image conveys no information to someone who is unfamiliar to the subject. When I look at that list, the pictures convey no information to me -- they're simply visual punctuation, and the column could be replaced with episode numbers without a loss of information. --Carnildo 08:31, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, that excludes readers who know a little about the subject from consideration. With repeating themes and events in any show, a picture defines and describes the episode. Not to insult the show, but a short description like "The base is invaded by a mechanical entity." could use a picture to help define it. Someone with just came to the show can use the pictures to find the episode they saw a part of and figure out certain things about that episode and the show, all with the descriptive power of pictures. Lotusduck 18:51, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to make a point about the images and whether or not they are "decorative".

Whilst to any viewer of the show who hasn't seen the episodes might find them uncorrelative, they have actually been carefully chosen. Each image is from a key and memorable scene in that episode, or of something unique to that episode. The images very much define those episodes. Furthermore, as said, people who do watch the show will find them even more immediately informative because they understand the subject matters. I know I have. -- Alfakim --  talk  13:47, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

• Support: This article is an exemplary and detailed, beautiful and beautifully accurate list. The images are fair use, and the bare fact that it is a TV episode list is NOT an objection! Despite these being approved of, there are already Featured episode lists! My only misgiving on this article is that it could have one or two tune-ups yet before being PERFECT, but overall this is still definitely a SUPPORT. -- Alfakim --  talk  13:44, 12 February 2006 (UTC)