Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/United States/3

United States

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review

Result: Delisted Some improvements have been made through this reassessment, but there is still a lot of work to do in order to meet the focus criteria. There are also still a bunch of citation needed tags throughout the article. AIRcorn (talk) 22:32, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:United States/GA4. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

Considering there are two issues:

It is too long to navigate comfortably
Excessive amount of detail

I would like to re-asses the good article status, because those issues violates 1a and 3b of the good article criteria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Streepjescode (talk • contribs)

Hi Streepjescode. Country articles tend to be quite long due to there nature, but I do agree that this one could make better use of daughter articles and summary style. I have dropped a note at the Wikiproject informing them of this reassessment, sorry if you had already done so. AIRcorn (talk) 03:47, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I think this might be better for a community assessment so I'm posting it there as well. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:11, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support delisting if no improvements are made: the article is currently 111 kB when the absolute maximum article size is 100kb. It would really benefit from more aggressive summary style, hopefully cutting it down to around 80kb or less. b uidhe 13:15, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Significant progress has been made, but there are still uncited statements and excessive images breaking across sections. (t · c) buidhe 13:56, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support delisting. The length is egregious, the lead has references not used anywhere else suggesting information there may not be in the rest of the article (eg. worker productivity), there are numerous single sentence paragraphs and numerous tiny sections (the table of contents is very long), and there are areas missing citations. The article thus fails the first 3 GA Criteria. CMD (talk) 12:50, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support delisting. In particular, the Demographics section is pretty excessive considering that most of its subheadings have their own articles. I think cutting down that section by even 50% would be helpful. Ovinus Real (talk) 14:06, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose delisting. While this article is very long, the United States is a topic that generates a very long article. It could be reduced, but it is still at overall GA quality. PointsofNoReturn (talk) 21:49, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Many topics generate very long articles, that is why we have WP:SUMMARYSTYLE and related guidelines. I would suggest it's a decent enough bet that the United States has more subarticles than any other country. I would also add that in addition to the concerns raised above about 1a and 3b, I have concerns on this article relating to 1b and 2c, so I don't see the article as having an overall GA quality at all. CMD (talk) 07:23, 17 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to do some copy editing and taking a look at sources/citations over the next week or two. Not going to touch the lede because I haven't edited this article much and I'm not yet comfortable messing with stuff there, but I'll be working on making things more succinct in the rest of the article. I'll also be on the lookout for MOS violations and fix them as I see them. CJK09 (talk) 06:17, 11 May 2020 (UTC)Don't have time for this atm. Too much else on my plate. CJK09 (talk) 20:40, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Over the past couple days I have reorganized sections of this article and tried to remove excessive detail. Over the coming days I'll probably whittle it down a bit more and do some copy editing. I think it's a bit easier to navigate now though. Any suggestions are welcome (please ping me) Ovinus (talk) 08:09, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Ovinus, regarding navigation, a significant issue is the number of sections and subsections in the article (54). Some of this is due to the sheer length of the article, but some are very short, which is discouraged by MOS:BODY. Examples include Wildlife (2 sentences), Conservation (2 short paragraphs), Population (2 sentences), Major population areas (2 short paragraphs), etc. There are also 3 sections named "Statistics", and 4 sections named "Trends", which is explicitly instructed against by MOS:HEAD, due to how it impedes navigation. CMD (talk) 12:48, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ovinus Real has been doing a lot of summarizing and has brought this article down from 400kb to around 350kb. This is a major improvement, but the article is still too long. I support delisting unless the article is cut down to around 250kb or less, and the excessive detail is removed. Crazy Boy 826 16:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- You have lots of over data that can be moved....language chart with stats about less then 1 percent of the population could be made to prose text. Do we need "State flags and statehood dates" templates that in mobile view are always expanded...this could be a simple link. Section on "Water supply and sanitation" is so general that is contains zero informative information and could be removed. "Income, poverty and wealth" is so detailed that non Americans are lost by all the numbers and how they compare to other countries.--Moxy 🍁 14:04, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - I agree, the language table is not helpful. Your other changes would also be beneficial. (t · c) buidhe 03:11, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - This is a discussion on the length and manageability of the "United States" article—nothing else. A cursory comment on this particular page ("I agree the language table is not helpful") is not sufficient basis for wholesale deletion of a table present in the article for 10 years. No consensus has been reached on this. Go to the *main* Talk page. Mason.Jones (talk) 15:47, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - Mason.Jones, WP:ONUS says that the onus to keep disputed content rests with the editors seeking to keep it. I don't see any such consensus. (t · c) buidhe 16:16, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        You deleted major content without discussion on the main Talk page, and with no edit summary (other than a cursory acronym). Moreover, discussion on this same issue (the ACS language table) already existed on the main Talk page with the same poster above (Moxy). No consensus was reached. Shooting the breeze with posters on this talk page re length/navigation issues i s not consensus either. Mason.Jones (talk) 17:26, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        Mason.Jones again you're missing the point. You need consensus to KEEP this content, according to WP:ONUS. Consensus is not necessary to DELETE content because the burden of proof (that the content is WP:DUE) is on those seeking to keep it in the article. (t · c) buidhe 19:02, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        You've made mass deletions of statistical data, edits "embedded" in sweeping global fixes without proper edit summaries. Other editors have to go to a talk page related to GA4/navigation issues (not the main Talk page, which deals with content), then figure out what you changed and, worse, why. This is underhanded editing and definitely not in good faith. Mason.Jones (talk) 22:34, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Are we done yet? The result of the reassessment has been pending for nearly six months, and most seem to be in favor of delisting. jackchango talk 10:52, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just a repost of Talk:United States/GA4. Please comment there. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:17, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]