Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Warcraft II/1

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · WatchWatch article reassessment pageMost recent review
Result: No action. There is no consensus to list this article, and there remain unresolved concerns. Geometry guy 21:54, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Warcraft_II/GA1 has several defects, and I'm reluctant to insert Talk:Warcraft_II/GA1 as this would be it more for GAR reviewers to make their comments easy to see. However I will insert the whole of Talk:Warcraft_II/GA1 is required.

A few of the problems with Talk:Warcraft_II/GA1:

  • The first GA reviewer's first statement was so poorly structured that I restructured it so I could understanding. None of the reviewers object to the result.
  • The complain that "Warcraft II is a real time strategy game (RTS),[1] in other words the contenders play at the same time and continuously, so that players have to move quickly" was, in the first reviewer opinion, "Bad, almost game-guide tone, how about just explaining what an RTS is instead of beating around the bush and giving us a really bad explanation before actually cutting to the chase". However, the article gives 2 citations for the explanation of RTS, IMO this is relevant, and hence trying to removed it would be WP:POV.
  • WP:WIAGA uses a strict subset of MOS, and WikiProject extensions are also outside WP:WIAGA.
  • The story, when present in games, is generally subordinate to the gameplay, for example:
    • Total_Annihilation's story is a concise summary of the gameplay: "What began as a conflict over the transfer of consciousness from flesh to machines escalated into a war which has decimated a million worlds. The Core and the Arm have all but exhausted the resources of a galaxy in their struggle for domination. Both sides now crippled beyond repair, the remnants of their armies continue to battle on ravaged planets, their hatred fueled by over four thousand years of total war. This is a fight to the death. For each side, the only acceptable outcome is the complete elimination of the other.
    • The in-game stories of the Red Alert series simply explain why the western powers are fighting Stalin rather than Hitler.
    • Master of Orion II: Battle at Antares has no story within the game and 1 page in the manual. --Philcha (talk) 13:19, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • General responses
  • Though I feel that Philcha's contributions and editing are excellent overall and don't want to offend the editor, I felt that I should make a few points in defense of WP:VG. --Teancum (talk) 12:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Responses:

  • Wikipedia:Peer review#Warcraft II closed on 21 July 2010.
  • Master of Orion II: Battle at Antares passed GA on July 1, 2009. But Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Good articles did not list Master of Orion II: Battle at Antares as late as 31 July 2009, perhaps because WikiProject Video games assesses Master of Orion II as Mid-priority.
  • I'd have thought getting Total Annihilation and Command & Conquer: Red Alert to GA or even FA would be a better return on the effort.
  • Would you want me to do a GA review in the same style as the one for Warcraft II, so that the nominator's first task would need to restucture it and I would give no help in identify issues? I generally use a standard procedure, but could omit:
    • Coverage, in other words what to include / exclude per WP:WIAGA.
    • Structure. To group aspects of the article to other and often to order that so that (sub-)sections that provide information precede those that use that information.
    • (Sub-)sections, looking at e.g. prose and citations.
    • Check for broken links and DAB pages.
    • Check the lead last, when no further changes are expected in tha main text.
    • As a nominator does not know when a GA review may be start, it may be a time when the nominator is busy for other things. I make an allowance for RL if the nominator requests this at the start of the review.
    • If you disagree with any my comments, please say so - I'm not infallible.

More later - RL again --Philcha (talk) 14:09, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

My fault on the peer review. WP:Video Games still had it listed on their to-do list. As far as any disagreements, I only wanted to state the Wikiproject's POV, I personally don't have enough interest in this particular article to have any arguments. --Teancum (talk) 14:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. WikiProject guidelines, including Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines, are not and have never been part of the good article criteria. However, they may and often do advise reviewers in the interpretation of the criteria (e.g. broadness) for particular types of article. Geometry guy 21:37, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • GA issues. Having reviewed the article, I believe it does not meet the GA criteria at present: problems include 1a (clarity), 1b (lead section and fiction) and 3b (focus). In broad terms, the current structure is unencyclopedic, disjointed, with in-universe and game-play elements dominating.
The first disjunction is the third paragraph of the lead ("Players must collect resources...") The reader is obliged to be drawn into the game-play without a clear understanding of what this game-play entails. "The more advanced combat units are produced at the same buildings as the basic units but also need the assistance of other buildings, or must be produced at buildings that have prerequisite buildings." illustrates the poor prose and in-universe trend: buildings are not regarded as assistants in real life. Here also is the first of many wikilinks to the fog of war.
In the first section, the article gradually draws the reader in-universe. What is it with the capitalization of "Farms", "Oil Tankers", "Oil Platforms" or even "Humans"? Then, in the "user-interface" section, the level of detail in the article and image caption makes the article seem like a gaming guide, which Wikipedia is not.
The next disjunction was the "Predecessor and sequels" section. I might have expected something about sequels, but I thought predecessors had already been discussed. The level of detail here is excessive.
The final disjunction was the the most disconcerting of all. Having read through the sequels, I figured that I must be at the end of the article, but no, there is a whole new in-universe section on the storyline. Never mind moving the section, deleting it would be an improvement. Short of that, please use the narrative present for plot summaries, and keep them short!
Clearly a lot of work has gone into this article, but that can lead to a lack of objectivity. I recommend stepping back and taking in the reactions of no less that 6 reviewers to the article, and rethinking how to do justice (in this encyclopedia) to a very significant game of the 1990s. Geometry guy 20:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Geometry guy. Your comments made me think:
  • Comment. The article cannot be listed as GA unless an independent reviewer endorses the article as meeting the GA criteria. It seems to me that it is best to close this GAR as "No action" so that renomination at GAN can take place once article editors believe that there is a chance to obtain such an independent endorsement. Comments made here may help editors and reviewers approach that challenge with realism. Geometry guy 00:02, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]