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Wikipedia:Peer review/Central Morocco Tamazight/archive3

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Central Morocco Tamazight

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I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to get it to Featured Article status.

Thanks, Mo-Al (talk) 01:01, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]


This is not an area of expertise so my input on actual content will be limited. I'll happily go through the article and pick out issues that I feel would come up at FAC. I recommend familiarizing yourself with User:Tony1/How to improve your writing, this will help with prose and grammatical issues that may crop up in your writing. It's been a big help to me.

Lead

  • This sentence has a couple of issues that I want to bring up:
"Currently Berber languages are not official state languages in Morocco and Algeria, maintaining a secondary status, and are primarily spoken in the private sphere"
Watch for temporal terms like "currently", "now" etc. Usually the sentence will define the timeframe without needing this word. In this case the word "are" denotes present day so "currently" is unnecessary. I already removed this from the sentence.
How are you using the term "secondary status"? This isn't very clear from the context of the sentence. I recommend ending the sentence after "Algeria", and then explaining a little more thoroughly what status Berber languages have within the culture of these countries.
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 20:47, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think you need "...as other Berber languages..." Instead say, "Tamazight was originally an unwritten language."
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 15:46, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Here is another section with a few issues:
"Beginning in September, 2003, Tifinagh is used to teach children Tamazight in Moroccan schools,[1][2] while the Latin script, which has a great deal of established writing, is preferred among Amazigh linguists and researchers.[3] Arabic script is the predominant orthography for Berber literature in Morocco,[2] and Islamists support its use,[4] despite associations of pan-Arabism, although it does not have popular support."
Be sure to define technical terms like, "Amazigh", and "orthography". What is your definition of an "Islamist"? I think a more specific term would be better here. I see that Amazigh is defined in the classification section, perhaps a different term could be used in the lead?
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 22:45, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If the pan-Arabism critique is important then it should be in a separate sentence. The subject of the sentence, Arabic script, has nothing to do with this critique.
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 22:45, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Again there are terms like "phonological", "lexical", and "syntactic", are there any wikilinks at least?
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 20:49, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead usually doesn't have a lot of references. This is a style choice but the assumption is that the references will be repeated in the body of the article so you can leave them out of the lead. An exception would be highly controversial subjects. It's up to you but it may come up in the FAC.

Classification

  • Usually you don't have parentheses () after a period. See:
"...although Central Morocco Tamazight speakers use them regularly and exclusively to replace local terms such as ašəlḥi or rifi.[5](Using <gh> for [ɣ] when embedding Berber words in English text follows the tradition set by French-language publications, even those written by Berbers.[6])"
Please consider reformatting this section, are the parentheses needed?
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 15:46, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The in-line cite #23 should go on the outside of the parenthesis.
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 15:46, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see a lot of parenthetical statements, (information in parentheses). Extensive use of parentheses is frowned upon at FAC.
  • Plosives, fricatives and affricates? Remember you are not writing to an audience of linguists. Check WP:JARGON for MOS suggestions regarding jargon.
  • Watch use of the word "primarily", this word can sometimes be overused and lose its meaning.

History

  • There are some problems with this sentence,
"However, Berber languages continued to be spoken, and unlike the experiences of other groups indigenous to the Middle East, Arabic never became a 'native' language for the Berbers, despite its use as a lingua franca, due to the popular Berber culture and the weakness of the central power (makhzan)."
The subject is Berber languages yet the sentence strays into Arabic language, then back to Berber culture.
I would reword thus: "Contrary to other groups indigenous to the Middle East, Arabic never became a 'native' language for the Berbers, despite its use as the lingua franca. Berber languages continued to be spoken due to the popularity of the Berber culture and the weakness of the central power (makhzan)."
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 20:30, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What central power are you referring to? A central government or governing council? A centralized cultural structure? What is the makhzan? Is this a proper noun? If so it should be capitalized.
  Done I clarified this. Mo-Al (talk)
  • One sentence paragraphs (stubs) are frowned upon at FAC, consider expanding or combining.
  • The first sentence about the Sherifian sultanate is a run-on sentence. Please consider breaking up into at least two sentences.
  • "The French believed the Berbers to be closer to Europeans than the Arabs, and saw them as a possible ally against the Arabs, to be drawn into French culture."
The "...to be drawn into French culture" doesn't really have a connective aspect to the rest of the sentence, which is about how the Berbers were viewed by the French. The sentence should end after "Arabs", with a new sentence about what the French did to ally themselves with the Berbers. Does this make sense?
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 23:02, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The French efforts to engratiate themselves to the Berbers pushed them away and spurred the Berbers toward adopting the Arabic language and culture? If so this should be explained. I took the statement about "Arab nationalism" to refer to Moroccan Arabs not Berbers. The Berbers didn't like the French and wanted to identify more as Arab than European. Overly simplified I know but something to that effect.
The source is somewhat unclear but I've tried to sort it out. Mo-Al (talk) 23:02, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "As a result, most Berbers had to study and know Arabic"
Don't need "study and know" simply state "had to be fluent in Arabic". This tightens the prose a little bit.
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 20:38, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The tense in the last paragraph of the history section shifts from past and present. This is confusing.
I've tried to clear this up. Mo-Al (talk) 22:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "However, its distribution remains highly uneven."
I'm not sure what the "its" is referring to, this isn't clear from the context. Is it referring to the language or Berberism, which is the subject in the lead sentence of the paragraph.
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 22:08, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last few sentences of the history section discuss the "Berber" language? Is this synonymous with Tamazight? If so you should use Tamzight instead. If it is not then why have this information in the article? It shifts the focus away from the subject in my opinion.
  • Why the image of the coin of Jugurtha? There's no reference in the article to Jugurtha that I can see, perhaps I missed something.

Geographic distribution

  • "However, the highlands were affected by North African invasions, including, most recently, French occupation."
I recommend removing "including, most recently" and replacing with "and". Much tighter and improves the flow of the sentence.
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 22:08, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is some duplication of information in this section including a verbatim copy of the first sentence of the second paragraph with a sentence in the lead, and a reference to a "smooth transition" between dialects, which is found in the Classification section, and references to locations of Tamazight in geographic regions such as the Middle Atlas mountains (also found in the Classification section). The article is a good length as is, consider removing duplicative information found elsewhere in the article (not in the lead). Look for more duplicative language in this section.

Status

  • What is "...or through the administration"? What administration are you referring to? Please specify.
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 20:38, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Most rural Berber children are monolingual, and must struggle to succeed in schools where the teachers do not speak Berber, and require them to learn both Arabic and French."
Multiple subjects in the same sentence, children and teachers. Do most teachers speak Arabic rather than Berber? If so break the sentence in two. A possible reword would be, "Most rural Berber children are monolingual. They struggle to succeed in schools where the teachers do not speak Berber, and require them to learn both Arabic and French."
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 22:08, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • It feels as though the article is straying into information about the Berber language as a whole rather than staying focused on the Tamazight dialect. This will certainly be caught in FAC, please take a hard look at this section and the entire article to make sure the focus stays on the Tamazight dialect. This isn't an article about the Berber language group as a whole. I'm not going to say much more in this section because I feel like it needs a complete rewrite to stay on topic. I certainly welcome disagreement on this assessment.
  • Can more be said about the image of the IRCAM? What connection does it have to this section or to the article?
I added a line about its significance in the establishment of Tifinagh. I think more could be said, though I'm still not clear on what other significant things they have done. Mo-Al (talk) 23:11, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Orthography

  • What is meant by, "though they lead the masses in Berber"? How did they lead the masses? Does this refer to speeches or classes they taught? It's an ambiguous phrase.
  • IRCAM - don't use abbreviations without first spelling out the abbreviation in the body of the article. I note that it is spelled out in the image caption in the previous section but it should be also expanded in the first mention of it in the body of the article.
This seems to be the case now. Mo-Al (talk) 22:29, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Same critique here of parentheses after a period and in-line citations before the end parenthesis rather than after it.
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 22:29, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "favouring"
Watch spelling consistency, most of the spelling is American English, here is an example of British English. Be sure the spelling is consistent.
I fixed this case... I'll keep an eye out. Mo-Al (talk) 20:38, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The writing in this part of the sentence is a bit unclear: "...however, it is extremely popular for symbolic use, with many books and websites written in a different script featuring logos or title pages using Neo-Tifinagh." I'm not sure how to help rewrite it but it doesn't really connect to the rest of the sentence for me.
I changed this around. Mo-Al (talk) 22:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "However, in Morocco, the king took a "neutral" position between the claims of Latin script and Arabic script by adopting the Neo-Tifinagh script in 2003; as a result, books are beginning to be published in this script, and it is taught in some schools."
Consider rewriting this sentence in a more active voice, "In 2003 the Moroccan King took a "neutral" position in the argument between the claims of Latin script and Arabic script and adopted the Neo-Tifinagh script. As a result, books are beginning to be published in this script, and it is taught in some schools."
I would also consider moving this sentence to the end of the section since you haven't really outlined the issues with the Latin and Arabic scripts. It's a bit premature to talk about a resolution to the argument when you haven't explained the rest of the discussion.
I've moved around some stuff in this section. Mo-Al (talk) 22:29, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • You may want to think about creating sub-headings for the three major scripts rather than simply bolding them.
  DoneMo-Al (talk) 20:38, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • INALCO - another abbreviation that should be spelled out.
  Done Mo-Al (talk) 22:29, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Arabic script traditionally has been used consistently by all Berbers to write their language...."
You can remove "consistently", it doesn't help the flow of the sentence and is unnecessary.

Phonology

  Done Mo-Al (talk) 22:29, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I can't really speak to this section as it is outside my area of expertise.

Grammar

  • Check linking, be sure you're only linking terms that need to be linked.
  • In both this section and the Vocabulary section watch the one-sentence paragraphs. I understand that some of this is required given the subject matter but where possible combine these into cohesive paragraphs.
I've tried to improve this. Mo-Al (talk) 22:56, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Overall I feel like the article is very solid, it may seem like the suggestions above are a lot but they are intended to help move the article to FAC readiness. There are some prose issues, I haven't been able to bring them all up so a thorough copy edit of the article is in order. If you found the review helpful please consider reviewing an article here or at WP:GAC to help reduce the backlog. Good luck and happy editing. H1nkles citius altius fortius 18:40, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your comments are appreciated. I will try to address these issues over the next few weeks. Mo-Al (talk) 15:35, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference omniglot was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ a b Cite error: The named reference ReferenceC was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  3. ^ Cite error: The named reference choice was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  4. ^ Cite error: The named reference brenzinger126 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  5. ^ Chaker (n.d.)
  6. ^ Goodman (2005:xii)
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