Wikipedia:Peer review/Cyclone Taylor/archive1

Cyclone Taylor

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This peer review discussion is closed.

I brought this article to FAC two times last year, and it failed both times due to prose issues (the second time was a truncated review as I couldn't fully commit to it). I'd like to bring it back and think it should get through, but want to work on things here beforehand. So any comments are welcome.

Thanks, Kaiser matias (talk) 05:22, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

STANDARD NOTE: to get quicker and more responses to pre-FAC peer review requests, please remember to add your PR page to Template:FAC peer review sidebar. And when you close this peer review, please be sure to remove it from there. Also consider adding the sidebar to your userpage so you can help others by participating in other pre-FAC peer reviews. Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:10, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the note. I haven't brought an article here in a while, wasn't aware of this, but will definitely do so moving forward. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:12, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Sportsfan77777

Lead

he played professionally from 1906 to 1922 for the Portage Lakes Hockey Club, the Renfrew Creamery Kings, the Ottawa Hockey Club and the Vancouver Millionaires <<<=== I don't find this to be too helpful. Normally, you would probably name the leagues these teams are in, but in this case, that would take up too much space to do so for all of them. Given that he only played for one of those teams more than two seasons, I would recommend clarifying that he played primarily for the Vancouver Millionaires and that this was in the Pacific Coast Hockey Association. That way, it would be easier to connect the later comment about the five scoring PCHA titles to this team. I don't know if you need to mention the other teams because you just end up going through them all in the next paragraph anyway.
, and twice won the Stanley Cup, with Ottawa in 1909 and Vancouver in 1915, and was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1947. ===>>> , He won the Stanley Cup twice, once with Ottawa in 1909 and once with Vancouver in 1915. Taylor was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1947. (too much for one sentence)
Link Manitoba.
highest paid ===>>> highest-paid
Upon moving to Ottawa in 1907 ===>>> Upon moving to Ottawa in 1907,
a immigration official ===>>> an immigration official
Taylor ultimately became the Commissioner of Immigration for British Columbia and the Yukon, the highest position in the region, and in 1946 was named a Member of the Order of the British Empire for his services in immigration, retiring in 1950. <<<=== Split into two sentences.

Early life

I think it would be more sensible to replace at least a few of the "Archie"s with "his father"
The Taylor family were rather poor ===>>> The Taylor family was rather poor
not a lot to raise five children on. ===>>> not a lot to raise five children.
To help the family out ===>>> To help out his family,
Having learned to first skated ===>>> Having first learned to skate
He was given his first pair of skates ===>>> He was given his first pair of hockey skates (I assume?)
This greatly enhanced Taylor's name across the province, and several teams were interested in having him join them. <<<=== At the last FAC, Sarastro commented that this wasn't in the source.
He thus banned Taylor from playing hockey in Ontario for the 1903–04 season, as players had to apply to change teams, and with Taylor assigned to the Marlboros he was not supposed to play anywhere else. <<<=== Rephrase, and/or split into two sentences.
but player transfers were regulated by the OHA <<<=== Is this different from the point you are making in the previous sentence?

Portage

for 1905–06 ===>>> for the 1905–06 season
Taylor moved to Manitoba because the OHA only had jurisdiction in Ontario, so there was no ban on him joining teams there ===>>> Taylor moved to Manitoba because the OHA only had jurisdiction in Ontario and therefore could not ban him from joining teams there.
an early version of a defenceman ===>>> a precursor to an offensive-oriented defenceman (is that correct?)

Ottawa

, a high salary for the time though not extravagant ===>>> , a salary that was high for the time but not extravagant
join different teams ===>>> join other teams
Renfrew, owned by O'Brien, challenged the offer but made their own proposal to Taylor after the series ended: $1,500 for the season. <<<=== Do you mean they "challenged the offer by making their own proposal" or did they challenge the legitimacy of the Victorias' offer?
so he returned for the start of the season ===>>> which convinced him to return for the start of the season
Taylor was of average size for a hockey player in the era, ====>>> Taylor was of average size for a hockey player in the era. (split into two sentences)
and as one of the main forwards and one of the fastest players in hockey, he was constantly offside, as rules at the time did not allow players to pass the puck ahead of themselves and he was too quick for his linemates. ===>>> As one of the main forwards and one of the fastest players in hockey, he was frequently called for being offside due to being too quick for his linemates and the rules at the time forbidding any forward passing. (Is it all forward passing that was banned like rugby, or just passing in front of the lead player like soccer?)
he would be moved to cover-point for the rest of the season, as he would be further back on the ice and able to better utilize his speed. ===>>> he would move to cover-point for the rest of the season so that he would be further back on the ice and able to better utilize his speed.
during a January 11, 1908 match ===>>> during a January 11, 1908 game (unless it was a match? I didn't think that term was really used in hockey.)
Though previously referenced as both a ===>>> Though previously referred to as both a
remained for the rest of Taylor's career. ====>>> stuck with Taylor for the rest of his career.
Taylor garnering the most press attention with his skills. ===>>> during which Taylor garnered the most press attention with his skills.
However, after three games there he and Fred Lake were released, with both accused of trying to undermine the team's management and of intentionally losing a game to do so. ===>>> However, after three games there, the team released him and Fred Lake while accusing them of trying to undermine their management and intentionally losing a game to do so.
Why didn't Ottawa have to challenge for the cup?

Renfrew

The salary ===>>> His salary
A comparison was made with baseball player Ty Cobb, who had signed around the same time for $6,500, though it was noted that there were 154 games in a baseball season, while hockey only had 12; thus on a per-game basis Taylor was the highest-paid athlete in the world. ===>>> By comparison, Major League Baseball player Ty Cobb had signed around the same time for $6,500 to play a 154-game season. Since Renfrew only had a 12-game season; Taylor was the highest-paid athlete in the world on a per-game basis.
Relatedly, there were no other professional sports at the time?
He had long sought to win the Stanley Cup, and previous efforts to challenge for it had been rebuffed, as were his efforts to join the Canadian Hockey Association (CHA), as the ECHA had re-constituted itself in November 1909. ===>>> He had long sought to win the Stanley Cup, and his previous efforts to challenge for it had been rebuffed. Moreover, when the ECHA had re-constituted itself as the Canadian Hockey Association (CHA) in November 1909, O'Brien was unable to join.
By adding Taylor to the new league, the NHA gained immediate legitimacy, and the CHA folded within a few weeks, its remaining teams admitted into the NHA. ===>>> By adding Taylor to the new league, the NHA gained immediate legitimacy and the CHA folded within a few weeks, at which point its remaining teams were admitted into the NHA.
Note here that the NHA was the direct predecessor to the modern-day NHL.
to build a strong team, and were willing to pay for it. ===>>> to build a strong team and were willing to pay for it.
for $3,000 and $2,000, respectively ===>>> for $3,000 and $2,000 respectively
goaltender Bert Lindsay, and forward Herb Jordan, who agreed to turn professional when he signed with Renfrew. ===>>> goaltender Bert Lindsay and forward Herb Jordan, the latter of whom was agreeing to turn professional by signing with Renfrew.
when Newsy Lalonde, one of the highest-scoring players of the era, was acquired ===>>> with the acquisition of Newsy Lalonde, one of the highest-scoring players of the era.
Despite the high-priced talent, with four future members of the Hockey Hall of Fame on the roster ===>>> Despite the high-priced talent and four future members of the Hockey Hall of Fame on the roster
Renfrew finished third in the NHA, and thus were not able to make a challenge for the Stanley Cup (only the league winner could do so). ===>>> Renfrew finished third in the NHA and thus were not able to make a challenge for the Stanley Cup, a right reserved for the league winner.
(at the time few players skated this way, let alone scored goals while doing so) ===>>> an unusual way to skate at the time, let alone score.
However Taylor was not interested in moving to, or playing in, Montreal, so refused to report to the club, stating he would only play for Ottawa or not at all. ====>> However, Taylor refused to report to the club because he was not interested in moving to or playing in Montreal, stating he would only play for Ottawa or not at all.
Despite attempts by the Senators to trade for him, Taylor's rights remained with the Wanderers, and so he sat out the season. ===>>> Despite attempts by the Senators to trade for him, Taylor's rights remained with the Wanderers, leading him to sit out the season.
a new professional league established by the Patricks ===>>> a new professional league established by the Patricks in western Canada
Though Taylor had not played all year, the Patricks consented to the exhibition if Taylor was included on the NHA team. ===>>> Though Taylor had not played all year, the Patricks had consented to the exhibition on the condition that Taylor would be included on the NHA team. (The implied timing doesn't seem to fit in with the previous sentence.)

Vancouver

, though they sold the family business in 1911. Using the money from the sale the brothers set up the PCHA, and began to recruit players from Eastern Canada to join the league. ===>>> They sold the family business in 1911 and used the money from the sale the brothers set up the PCHA, recruiting players from Eastern Canada to join the league.
but turned it down saying he did not ===>>> but turned it down because he did not
After months of discussion, Taylor agreed to join the Vancouver Millionaires, with the decision announced on November 20. ===>>> After months of discussion, Taylor agreed to join the Vancouver Millionaires, a decision that was announced on November 20.
Much like he had for the NHA, Taylor's presence gave legitimacy to the PCHA. ===>>> Much like in the NHA, Taylor's presence gave legitimacy to the PCHA.
The first games of the PCHA's inaugural season only had half the tickets sold, while the Millionaires sold out their home opener, the first sell-out for the PCHA, for the 1912–13 season, Taylor's debut in the league. ===>>> While the first games of the PCHA's inaugural season only had half the tickets sold, the Millionaires sold out their home opener for the 1912–13 season, Taylor's debut in the league. It was the first sell-out for the PCHA.
He wanted to wait until the season was over to have surgery, though ultimately postponed it ===>>> He originally wanted to wait until the season was over to have surgery, but ultimately postponed it indefinitely.
for the goal-scoring title, each having 24. ===>>> for the goal-scoring title with 24.
Starting in 1914 the Cup had been competed for between the champions of the PCHA and the NHA, with each league hosting a best-of-five series in alternating years; ===>>> Starting in 1914, the Cup had been contested by the champions of the PCHA and the NHA, with each league hosting a best-of-five series in alternating years.
the 1915 Final was held in Vancouver, and as the leagues used different rules, games alternated between PCHA and NHA rules. ===>>> The 1915 Final was held in Vancouver, and as the leagues used different rules, games alternated between PCHA and NHA rules.
, and they placed all their focus on trying to contain him, to no avail. ===>>> They placed all their focus on trying to contain him, but to no avail.
, though Vancouver finished second in the league and thus was unable to defend its Stanley Cup title. ===>>> Though, Vancouver finished second in the league and thus was unable to defend its Stanley Cup title.
Playing at full health for the 1917–18 season, ===>>> At full health for the 1917–18 season,
the Toronto Arenas ===>>> the Toronto Arenas,
, and the Millionaires outscored the Arenas ===>>> and the Millionaires outscored the Arenas
but decided to attempt a return for the 1922–23 season appearing with Vancouver, then known as the Maroons, against the Victoria Cougars on December 8, 1922. ===>>> but decided to attempt a return for the 1922–23 season. He appeared with Vancouver, then known as the Maroons, against the Victoria Cougars on December 8, 1922.

Immigration

Taylor had joined the Immigration Branch ===>>> Taylor joined the Immigration Branch
as an inducement to get Taylor to play with the club ===>>> as an incentive to get Taylor to play for the club (I think "inducement" is actually fine, but somehow I've never heard of that word before.)
on July 23, the passengers refused entry ===>>> on July 23 after the passengers were refused entry

Later career

Though reluctant to go overseas, he wanted to help out and was willing to do whatever was necessary, though shortly after his enlistment it was announced that immigration officials were deemed a vital job and exempt from service, so Taylor was discharged from the military and spent the war working in Vancouver. ===>>> Though reluctant to go overseas, he wanted to help out and was willing to do whatever was necessary. Shortly after his enlistment though, it was announced that immigration officials were deemed a vital job and exempt from service. As a result, Taylor was discharged from the military and spent the war working in Vancouver.

Personal

other sports than hockey ===>>> sports other than hockey
during the scuffle he accidentally punched the referee, Tom Carlind ===>>> accidentally punched the referee, Tom Carlind, during the scuffle

Family

Okay.

Legacy

As well the junior Listowel Cyclones, based in Taylor's hometown, are named after him <<<=== "As well" isn't right here

Stats

If the PCHA was the first league to officially keep track of assists, how are there assist totals for earlier leagues?
I'm guessing the NHA and ECAHA assists aren't "0", they are just not tracked.
Write out "St-Cup totals" as "Stanley Cup totals"

Overall

A lot of these suggestions relate to adding or misusing commas.

I don't think the prose is too bad. These are all minor suggestions, even if it's a lot of them. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 23:16, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome thanks for going through it. I'll address these in the next day or so. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:56, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]