Wikipedia:Peer review/Divisional Cavalry Regiment (New Zealand)/archive1

Divisional Cavalry Regiment (New Zealand)

I've listed this article for peer review to give it a last check before I nominate it at FAC. All comments and feedback are welcome. Thanks, Kges1901 (talk) 08:38, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

I'll add comments here as I go through the article; it might take me a day or two to finish. I am not familiar with military terms, so please pardon any ignorance in these comments.

• I know it's hard to imagine a reader who won't know that the context is WW2, but I would suggest a sentence, or even half a sentence, at the start of the Formation section referring to the world events that triggered the regiment's formation.
• "C Squadron completed its training in New Zealand, was attached to the Second Echelon of the 2 NZEF (which included the 5th Brigade) and was diverted to Britain, while enroute to Egypt, when Italy entered the war and arrived on 16 June": too long and complicated a sentence and I think the clauses get a bit tangled up towards the end, or you're missing a comma -- Italy didn't arrive on 16 June, after all.
• Also, why do you mention the 5th Brigade in that sentence?
• I'm not clear why C squadron wasn't part of Div Cav from the start, or why it joined Div Cav -- I've only read the first few paragraphs, so I may be missing something.
  • Clarified. Kges1901 (talk) 20:57, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
• "After finishing the task, it was transferred to the rear area at El Daba in a week": suggest "A week after finishing the task, it was transferred to the rear area at El Daba" if that's the intended meaning.
• I'm not knowledgeable about military history, so take this as a layman's comment, but in a couple of places I think a parenthetical explanation would help. For example, the mention of Operation Compass might become "After Operation Compass, a major Allied assault on Italian positions in North Africa, began, ..." Another example in the first paragraph of "North Africa and Syria": "...to take part in Operation Crusader, the coming British offensive..."

  You now have "Italian positions in Egypt and Africa" which is odd, since Eqypt is in Africa. This is OK if military histories also do this, perhaps because "Africa" here really means "the rest of North Africa", but if the sources don't split Eqypt out of Africa in this way neither should we. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:05, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

  • Changed to Egypt and Libya, as that's where the offensive happened. Kges1901 (talk) 16:39, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

• I don't understand the hidden comment in the "Greece" section. It seems to relate to: "Two troops of artillery,  consisting of four 25-pounder and four 2-pounder guns, were attached to the regiment." I'm also not clear on the technical meaning of "attached"; is there a possible glossary link? Were these men and equipment from another regiment temporarily with Div Cav, or were these troops now considered part of Div Cav?
• "On 4 April, two troops of Marmon-Harrington armoured cars were sent to reinforce the British 1st Armoured Brigade on the Macedonian plain and in exchange, the regiment received seven cruiser tanks": I wasn't clear until the end of the sentence that these troops were sent by Div Cav; can you make it active voice to make it clearer? E.g. "On 4 April, Div Cav sent" (or "Carruth sent", if that would be more natural).
• Another general comment -- maps, even simple outlines with some indication of positions and movement, would be helpful. So many actions are described that it's not possible to do this for all of them, but if any are easy to provide I think that would improve the article.

  I see you've added a couple; I'll leave this unstruck since more would be good, though I know it's down to what's available. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:08, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

• "The Divisional Cavalry, less A Squadron, was instructed instead to...": suggest "Instead, Div Cav, less A Squadron, was instructed to..." unless there's some reason to use the regiment's full name here.
• "...the Div Cav had fulfilled its mission and retreated beyond the village of Mazi. In the evening, Div Cav was ordered to...": "Div Cav" or "the Div Cav"? Or are both used?
• "Div Cav, commanded by Major J. T. Russell and renamed Russell Force": I don't quite follow this. The regiment is in two parts, so presumably "Russell Force" only refers to the part on Crete? Or were the men in Eqypt also now referred to as part of Russell Force?
• "On 3 June, the rest of the regiment arrived at Helwan from Crete": the preceding discussion seems to say that noone from the regiment was left on Crete, so who are the "rest"? Does this refer to HQ Squadron and HQ, which had been sent to Egypt?
• Another unexplained hidden comment in the first paragraph of "C Squadron at Gambut and Ed Duda".
• "On 2 January 1942, Lieutenant E. W. Kerr accepted the surrender of German General Artur Schmitt": I assume Kerr was in Div Cav; can we say so, since we've been talking about other units as well?
• "HQ and B Squadrons entered Bardia after Kerr's troops, releasing Allied prisoners and C Squadron was the first Allied force to enter Bardia": oddly phrased; if C squadron enters Bardia first, why not say that before saying HQ and B squadrons entered Bardia?
• You have "The regiment was placed under the command of the 9th Armoured Brigade]]" which is presumably meant to be a link; I couldn't be sure of the target or I'd have done it myself.
  • Addressed issues to this point. Thanks, Kges1901 (talk) 10:09, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
• D squadron is mentioned for the first time in the "Spring 1945 offensive in Italy" section; shouldn't its formation be mentioned?

  Actually I see you do mention it in the Japan paragraph, but the date given there is clearly after the Japanese surrender, whereas the actions in Italy predate that, so something is clearly not right. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:44, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

• In the second paragraph of "Spring 1945 offensive in Italy" you appear to refer to the regiment as a brigade: "the brigade returned to the front lines". Are the two terms interchangeable?
  • Addressed. Kges1901 (talk) 16:38, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
• "the last men killed in action during the war": presumably the last men of Div Cav; I think it should be specific.
  • Addressed. Kges1901 (talk) 16:38, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
• "Div Cav, which regained its identity as a regiment": I hadn't realized it had lost its identity in the Italian campaign. Can you clarify, there or above?
  • The transition to battalion is covered in the Italy section Gothic Line subsection.Kges1901 (talk) 14:21, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

    So it is; struck. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:44, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

• Disbandment is mentioned in the lead but not covered in the body of the article.
  • Disbandment is covered in the "Japan" section. Kges1901 (talk) 14:21, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

    Missed that. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:44, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

-- That's everything I see on a first pass. I'll do another read through after you respond. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:42, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Looking through again.

• There are still two outstanding points above -- one about C squadron and one about D squadron.
  • Clarified the D Squadron issue. Kges1901 (talk) 21:17, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

    You've now given the earlier creation date for the squadron, but the Japan section still says it's a "new" squadron -- presumably we can just cut "new"? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:35, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

    The problem is that it was new as the original D Squadron was not an all-Maori unit. Kges1901 (talk) 22:58, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

    How about "In October, D Squadron was changed to an all-Maori unit, replacing men sent back to New Zealand"? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:46, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

    Done. Can this PR be closed now? Kges1901 (talk) 07:34, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

    Yes, close it at will. (You probably know this but you can close a PR whenever you want; you don't have to wait for reviewers.) Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 09:05, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

• Why are there citations on the first couple of sentences in the lead? Normally the lead doesn't require citations except for direct quotes and controversial statements, neither of which applies here.
  • Addressed. Kges1901 (talk) 21:24, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

    I deleted one more. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:35, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

• You italicize W Force but not J Force; can you confirm that's the usual typography in the sources rather than an inconsistency?
  • Not usual typography, removed italics. Kges1901 (talk) 21:24, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

    Wilder Force and Pleasants Force are still in italics; should those be changed? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:35, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

    Addressed. Kges1901 (talk) 22:58, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

• You give "2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force (2 NZEF)", i.e. both the name and the abbreviation, twice in the first few sentences of the article; I think on the second use you could just say "2 NZEF".
  • Addressed. Kges1901 (talk) 21:24, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
• The dates at the end of the Battle of Crete section appear to be wrong; you have "April" where I'm pretty sure you mean "May".
  • Addressed. Kges1901 (talk) 21:24, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
• When Nicoll succeeds Carruth, wouldn't it make sense to give his new rank rather than his old one? Or if it's worth indicating that this was a promotion, make that clear.
  • Addressed. Kges1901 (talk) 21:24, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
• If a map is available for the North Africa section, it's not so important that it shows Div Cav positions; the main benefit would just be to locate the main place named. Many readers will know where Cairo and Tobruk are; beyond those names, most readers will need help.
  • Added maps. Kges1901 (talk) 21:40, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

-- That's everything. Haven't looked at sources or images, but assuming the above minor points are cleared up I think this is ready for FAC. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:44, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Just two minor points left above -- the word "new" in the description of D squadron in the Japan section, and the italics for Wilder Force and Pleasants Force. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:35, 7 August 2016 (UTC)